HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #41  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2008, 7:15 PM
kitchener-lrt's Avatar
kitchener-lrt kitchener-lrt is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Kitchener
Posts: 698
Since we don't have a thread dedicated to Greyhound, I thought I'd put it into the GO thread.

Time for a better offer to Greyhound

Jeff Outhit
RECORD STAFF


Greyhound has upset some passengers with the clumsy launch of its new terminal on Sportsworld Drive.

It's a reasonable plan, to put an intercity bus terminal with free parking near Highway 401. It will be more appealing to motorists than the Charles Street transit terminal in downtown Kitchener, where parking is a costly headache.

But some Greyhound passengers don't have cars. Sportsworld in south Kitchener is remote, with one transit connection every 30 minutes. The new site is of little use to those without cars.

So it makes sense for the bus company to continue stopping downtown, and at Sportsworld.

Greyhound says this is its plan. But it fumbled in the spring in not persuading passengers of this.

At first, Greyhound said it would stop selling tickets downtown. It backpedalled after outcry. Now, there's concern about the way it sells tickets on the platform, rather than inside the terminal.

This is poor customer service. Credit and debit are accepted but passengers with cash need exact change. Platforms are busy, chaotic places. They will be cold and miserable when winter arrives.

Some suspect the makeshift arrangement is meant to help Greyhound abandon the downtown.

Greyhound plans to soon sell tickets online. Also, passengers can board downtown and pay at Sportsworld. This helps.

But what's really needed is for Grand River Transit to let Greyhound back into the terminal to sell tickets, at a cost the firm is willing to pay.

The expired deal was a cash cow for taxpayers. The transit service was charging Greyhound $470,000 a year to rent platforms, sell tickets inside, and handle parcels. This included a 10 per cent commission on tickets and 15 per cent on parcels.

The new deal, in place for a year, reduces platform rents and eliminates commissions. Parcels have moved to Sportsworld.

Greyhound keeps all its revenue, but has to sell its tickets outside the terminal.

Letting Greyhound back into the building might not be as rich for taxpayers. There may be labour implications for Grand River Transit, which had to shed six jobs at the terminal when the old deal expired.

But it would be better for passengers.

It would encourage bus travel, which keeps cars off the highway and is the most affordable way for some people to travel.

So work it out. Greyhound is a private firm but the public interest is to help it serve passengers downtown, not hinder it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #42  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2008, 1:27 AM
yyzman yyzman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 35
GO Transit Bus service will start in September 2009!!!!!
Monday - Friday service.

Now what i don't get, is the expanded service out of Guelph and for over a year now the buses are still empty!!!
Hourly service for Guelph University and Aberfoyle to York University via Meadowvale GO and Bramalea GO
and Hourly service to Square one.
all carrying approx 5 per trip.
sad really.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #43  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2008, 2:39 AM
DHLawrence DHLawrence is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Cambridge, Ontario
Posts: 937
Where's it going to be going in 2009--Kitchener or Cambridge?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #44  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2008, 5:50 AM
gghtransit's Avatar
gghtransit gghtransit is offline
G.G.H. Transit
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kitchener, Ontario
Posts: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by yyzman View Post
GO Transit Bus service will start in September 2009!!!!!
Monday - Friday service.
PLEASE tell me where this is written, I pray it's true!!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #45  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2008, 1:49 AM
yyzman yyzman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 35
I work for a Goverment agency and a document was flashed in front of my eyes and the person very quickly pointed to a spot on one of the pages and it read...
Cambridge / Kitchener Sept 2009.

This may come earlier if my sources are correct.
GO Bus is moving into it's new Super Garage in Streetsville in the New years and i have heard that in the East (Durham / Pickering) Durham Region Transit is taking over GO's Hwy 2 service very soon which would free up more buses for expansion.

I will keep you posted.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #46  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2008, 3:49 PM
Brenden Brenden is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by yyzman View Post
I work for a Goverment agency and a document was flashed in front of my eyes and the person very quickly pointed to a spot on one of the pages and it read...
Cambridge / Kitchener Sept 2009.

This may come earlier if my sources are correct.
GO Bus is moving into it's new Super Garage in Streetsville in the New years and i have heard that in the East (Durham / Pickering) Durham Region Transit is taking over GO's Hwy 2 service very soon which would free up more buses for expansion.

I will keep you posted.

careful don't get fired lol
__________________
InTheSharkTank.com
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #47  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2008, 11:34 PM
dunkalunk's Avatar
dunkalunk dunkalunk is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Victoria Park, Kitchener
Posts: 326
If GO truly does come to the region in 2009, I hope it comes in the form of 401 service with stops at Hespeler Road and Sportsworld with a direct connection to the Milton GO train. A stop could also be made at Aberfoyle, however Guelph transit would have to step up to provide a connection.
The same thing goes with Kitchener. Why they don't put an Ottawa Transitway Style stop on the side of the highway at Sportworld is beyond me, they've allocated the space for it.

As much as I'd like to see GO train service come to Waterloo, the infrastructure is not there to provide reliable, car-competitive service between here and Toronto. What I'd rather see is improved VIA rail service with double tracking all the way through the corridor.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #48  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2008, 11:38 PM
DHLawrence DHLawrence is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Cambridge, Ontario
Posts: 937
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunkalunk View Post
Why they don't put an Ottawa Transitway Style stop on the side of the highway at Sportworld is beyond me, they've allocated the space for it.
They'd just have to rip it out again when light rail is installed; may as well just build it well once.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #49  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2008, 10:21 PM
yyzman yyzman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 35
I am sure it would go via Aberfoyle GO, from there you would connect with the Guelph University bus for Guelph.
I have heard so many rumours of where it is going from in Cambridge.
Hespeler Rd, (Rona)
Cambridge Mall, (Zellers)

I think the mall would be good,encourage people from out of town to come in on GO.
I sure we will find out soon.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #50  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2008, 9:39 AM
gghtransit's Avatar
gghtransit gghtransit is offline
G.G.H. Transit
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kitchener, Ontario
Posts: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHLawrence View Post
They'd just have to rip it out again when light rail is installed; may as well just build it well once.
Let's not forget, despite the "high praise" the LRT option is getting lately, it's still entirely possible that people will get scared off the approx. $1B construction cost and $11M/year operating costs and considering all that BRT will be chosen instead. LRT has NOT been decided upon.

All will be revealed in the next Phase of the Rapid Transit EA.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #51  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2008, 4:27 PM
mark76 mark76 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kitchener,Ontario
Posts: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by gghtransit View Post
Let's not forget, despite the "high praise" the LRT option is getting lately, it's still entirely possible that people will get scared off the approx. $1B construction cost and $11M/year operating costs and considering all that BRT will be chosen instead. LRT has NOT been decided upon.

All will be revealed in the next Phase of the Rapid Transit EA.
$1B??
$11M/year?

I was almost hanged on this forum supporting BRT instead of LRT.No comment on this.

I dont know will tax payers would like that.

I dont want to repeat myself again , BRT ,overhaul GRT system and bring GO to k-w for start + better intercity connections.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #52  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2008, 5:23 PM
gghtransit's Avatar
gghtransit gghtransit is offline
G.G.H. Transit
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kitchener, Ontario
Posts: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark76 View Post
$1B??
$11M/year?

I was almost hanged on this forum supporting BRT instead of LRT.No comment on this.

I dont know will tax payers would like that.

I dont want to repeat myself again , BRT ,overhaul GRT system and bring GO to k-w for start + better intercity connections.
And for those on the board who want to know, I'm not pulling those numbers out of my hat. I have copies of the technical studies from when the rapid transit line was first proposed a few years ago. The studies figures for the first 14km of LRT line from Conestoga Mall to Fairview Park Mall as $306,522,000 with $5,693,000 in annual operating costs for 7.5min service frequency (which is LESS than what the combined 7 Mainline and iXpress are already providing today)

Now, take note, those costs are all in 2004 dollars, so it doesn't account for 4 years of inflation which The Record as reported time and again has drivin the cost up substantially. The costs also don't include the sections of LRT from Fariview Park Mall to Ainslie Street and from Conestoga Mall to the Market District (both of which would double the line's length altogether). In addition, the operatings costs don't account for the frequent service that will be required to make the line attractive to riders, like 5min. service 7 days a week, and again they don't include the costs to run trains on the Cambridge or Market extensions.

So taking the entire line into account (Market to Ainslie) in 2004$ we would be looking at well over $600M capital (construction) cost and Operating costs of over $11M for 7.5min service. Now do the math and take into account the inflation for 4 years AND increasing frequency to 5min. and both those figures balloon substantially.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #53  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2008, 5:33 PM
Section ThirtyOne's Avatar
Section ThirtyOne Section ThirtyOne is offline
.
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Kitchener-Waterloo, ON
Posts: 45
Having lived in Ottawa for a few years, i've been exposed to how good a well run BRT system can function. Although it doesn't have the wow factor of LRT, BRT (on dedicated throughfares like the Transitway) is more flexible, comes with a lower capital cost, and would allow us to leverage some of the buses already in the GRT fleet.

Would it be possible to use some of the existing rail corridors for dedicated BRT roads, or is that out of the question?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #54  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2008, 5:57 PM
eemy's Avatar
eemy eemy is offline
Closed account
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,456
Quote:
Originally Posted by gghtransit View Post
Let's not forget, despite the "high praise" the LRT option is getting lately, it's still entirely possible that people will get scared off the approx. $1B construction cost and $11M/year operating costs and considering all that BRT will be chosen instead. LRT has NOT been decided upon.

All will be revealed in the next Phase of the Rapid Transit EA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gghtransit View Post
And for those on the board who want to know, I'm not pulling those numbers out of my hat. I have copies of the technical studies from when the rapid transit line was first proposed a few years ago. The studies figures for the first 14km of LRT line from Conestoga Mall to Fairview Park Mall as $306,522,000 with $5,693,000 in annual operating costs for 7.5min service frequency (which is LESS than what the combined 7 Mainline and iXpress are already providing today)

Now, take note, those costs are all in 2004 dollars, so it doesn't account for 4 years of inflation which The Record as reported time and again has drivin the cost up substantially. The costs also don't include the sections of LRT from Fariview Park Mall to Ainslie Street and from Conestoga Mall to the Market District (both of which would double the line's length altogether). In addition, the operatings costs don't account for the frequent service that will be required to make the line attractive to riders, like 5min. service 7 days a week, and again they don't include the costs to run trains on the Cambridge or Market extensions.

So taking the entire line into account (Market to Ainslie) in 2004$ we would be looking at well over $600M capital (construction) cost and Operating costs of over $11M for 7.5min service. Now do the math and take into account the inflation for 4 years AND increasing frequency to 5min. and both those figures balloon substantially.
$600M is still a far cry from $1B. And I don't think you can really compare 7.5min LRT service to a split service on two bus routes. The LRT is really only comparable to the iXpress. I would hope that the 7 would continue to operate in a reduced capacity for local service.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #55  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2008, 8:30 PM
kitchener-lrt's Avatar
kitchener-lrt kitchener-lrt is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Kitchener
Posts: 698
Wrong thread!

Here's my $0.02:
LRT all the way. WhyTF is everyone hoping for the BRT version just because of cost, when down the road, LRT will become reality.
What sounds cheaper: Building BRT now, then LRT 20 years later, or just building LRT NOW?
I'd go with option number 2.
__________________
Toronto FC Supporter
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #56  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2008, 4:37 AM
Ontario1's Avatar
Ontario1 Ontario1 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitchener-lrt View Post
Wrong thread!

Here's my $0.02:
LRT all the way. WhyTF is everyone hoping for the BRT version just because of cost, when down the road, LRT will become reality.
What sounds cheaper: Building BRT now, then LRT 20 years later, or just building LRT NOW?
I'd go with option number 2.
LRT is the only way to go.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #57  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2008, 5:24 AM
gghtransit's Avatar
gghtransit gghtransit is offline
G.G.H. Transit
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kitchener, Ontario
Posts: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy_haak View Post
$600M is still a far cry from $1B. And I don't think you can really compare 7.5min LRT service to a split service on two bus routes. The LRT is really only comparable to the iXpress. I would hope that the 7 would continue to operate in a reduced capacity for local service.
Just to clarify a few numbers. After doing a little math and gathering some basic inflation statistics from the Bank of Canada (although construction materials costs have increased dramtically faster, but I don't have that info), if LRT were built THIS year assuming the basic inflation rate it would cost approximately $723M with $13.2M annual Operating costs (assuming 7.5min. frequency).

Those following the RT Study take from this what you will, but costs are going to keep rising, and although the feds and province have committed to paying to build it, governments change so funding could still potentially fall through and those operating costs got to come from somewhere (tax hike anyone!).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #58  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2008, 6:07 AM
dunkalunk's Avatar
dunkalunk dunkalunk is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Victoria Park, Kitchener
Posts: 326
Wow, did I unintentionally spark something?

I do too hope for a systemwide LRT system. However, the Highway 8/401 corridor will likely still remain an important bus corridor between Sportsworld and Hespeler Road.
When i said transitway style stop, I meant dedicated bus (/hov?) lanes with a stop on the side of the highway similar to the ones found on the side of the 417 in Kanata and the Queensway in Gloucester as opposed to a full station on a fully separated busway, that would just be silly . There would be a simple stop on the side of the Highway 8 with an overpass/underpass connecting them to a terminal either at the tracks or at Sportsworld Crossing.

This would especially be important if the Rail/Coronation route is chosen for the LRT as there would also be a need to maintain iXpress style service along Hespeler Road. And, create a new service for Conestoga College.

And even in the interim, It's a shame that there is no iXpress stop at Sportsworld. Also, assuming that the Conestoga Mall to Fairview Mall phase of the LRT is built first, it may take many more years for them to construct the Cambridge Phase.

I guess it really all depends on the scheduling for the highway widening and interchange improvements.

BTW, this is definitely in the wrong thread. Oh well...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #59  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2008, 4:43 PM
mark76 mark76 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kitchener,Ontario
Posts: 174
ok ,wrong thread ,but its not done on purpose.

shall we relocate our discussion to proper thread??

I want to add something: We all know LRT would be exciting for k-w and also there is that `wow` factor which ( I hope will draw more people to downtown). Also we have to look other side which is how much money is going to cost??

I agree lets do things right first time, but trust me taxpayers wont like that!

Majority of jobs ( if there is any left due to everyday job losses) are in Guelph and GTA ( correct me if I am wrong ).

We still cant compare with Ottawa , Edmonton or Calgary.

Thanks and please no hard feelings!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #60  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2008, 4:51 PM
Cambridgite
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark76 View Post
Majority of jobs ( if there is any left due to everyday job losses) are in Guelph and GTA ( correct me if I am wrong ).
Guelph and the GTA have sustained huge losses of manufacturing jobs as well. They are in just as dire of straights as we are.

True that there are substantial numbers of people who commute from our region to the aforementioned places (hence the GO-train), but the overwhelming majority still commute internally.

In conclusion, I don't see how your statement holds much relevance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark76 View Post
We still cant compare with Ottawa , Edmonton or Calgary.
You're dead right about that. However, Edmonton built its LRT when it was around 500,000 people. I'm not sure how well it did in the beginning, but they sure as hell need it now.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:33 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.