Canadian province/ U.S. state analogues

[Al Ski]

I really wish we would compare ourselves to countries who outperform us rather than the failing U.S.

But such is the nature of Canadians, always content to be 99th so long as the U.S. is 100th.

If they suddenly pop to 95th we'll be satisfied with being 94th!

[lio45]

WTF is that "severity index" that rates Yarmouth NS as a more severe climate than Edmonton, and Halifax as a more severe climate than both Fort McMurray and Whitehorse, Yukon?!?!?

Sydney, NS has a more severe climate than Flin Flon?!?!?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by lio45

WTF is that "severity index" that rates Yarmouth NS as a more severe climate than Edmonton, and Halifax as a more severe climate than both Fort McMurray and Whitehorse, Yukon?!?!?

Sydney, NS has a more severe climate than Flin Flon?!?!?

Rain, wind and fog are more severe than Siberian cold and six month winters I guess.......

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by lio45

WTF is that "severity index" that rates Yarmouth NS as a more severe climate than Edmonton, and Halifax as a more severe climate than both Fort McMurray and Whitehorse, Yukon?!?!?

Sydney, NS has a more severe climate than Flin Flon?!?!?

Instinctively I would guess it's based on rainfall, and maybe frequency of high-wind storms. Not air temperature.

[lio45]

I used to think those people moving from Halifax to Fort McMurray did it for the money, but thanks to that list I just learned they were doing it for the weather

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by JustForTheHalibut

Videos like this probably don't help the stereotypes

It's useless worrying about things like that. Anyone who would view a video such as that one, which realistically could be anywhere, and judge a people and/or region for it are pretty backwoods themselves and almost certainly just reaffirming their own prejudices.

You can't let other people's stereotypes dictate your behavior, even if it's just what you post/discuss online. Just enjoy your life and if there's a trashy video making the rounds, don't even spare a second of thought for anyone who would view that and think it demonstrates all X, Y, Z people are trash.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Rain, wind and fog are more severe than Siberian cold and six month winters I guess.......

I completely agree with the sentiment, but people like that really do exist. Quite a few of them would choose -20/sun over +5/drizzle. I can't relate at all. Once you get close to -5 there's basically nothing milder that I wouldn't choose over it.

I've lived in a lot of cities from here to Manitoba, and winters were far worse in almost all of them. Weather isn't the most important thing to me in determining where I live (clearly), but those winters were torturous enough that I would never consider any of those cities again based solely on that.

And the ones that are comparable in that respect have other issues. Halifax is too close and not a big enough upgrade to uproot myself and move. Toronto is a huge upgrade on paper but the reality of it for me personally, where I could afford to live, what my suburban lifestyle would be like, isn't. Southern BC is practically the other side of the world, Rome is closer, if I'm going to be that far from the world I know, might as well join friends in Malaga, etc. So I'm stuck but contented.

[biguc]

Originally Posted by JustForTheHalibut

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia....y%20quantified.

This severity index is really poorly done. It's no wonder it yields results so out of whack with what we all know.

I mean...

Originally Posted by Canadian Encyclopedia

Discomfort Factor
...
Three elements were used to define the winter discomfort. These subfactors are the degree of coldness (wind chill) and the duration and severity of winter. Wind chill is a recognized index of heat loss and cold injury for humans, combining the effects of low temperature and strong winds. The duration of winter is given by the number of months with mean daily temperatures less than 0° C, and the severity of winter by the mean daily temperature of the coldest month.

First, this is really poorly written. I'm not sure what the three elements/subfactors are that cause winter discomfort. The author lists two: coldness (windchill) and duration and severity. Or is that three? Or four? This is why we use commas in lists. It's also a problem that severity is a subfactor/element (or a sub-subfactor?) of severity.

Anyway, the last two sentences are clear enough. It's not clear what value "severity" (the sub-subfactor) offers that windchill doesn't. More problematic, though, is why duration of winter is set at months with a mean daily temperature below zero. It's plausible that this value would be the same for a broad swath of the country. Meanwhile, there's a big difference between winters where the mean daily temperature is below -10, and those where it's, say, -1.

"Duration" plays an even dumber role in setting summer severity.

Originally Posted by Canadian Encyclopedia

Summer discomfort can be defined by 4 factors: season duration (ie, the number of months with a mean daily temperature of 10° C or more); a measure of the summer's warmth (ie, the mean daily maximum temperature of the month); humidex; and dampness.

So a month with a mean daily temperature over ten degrees qualifies as summer, and therefore contributes to that summer's duration, and therefore its severity. So, a month of highs of 15 and lows of 6 would qualify as "summer". That'll really drive up the murder rate. When will these days of interminable sweater weather end?

At least David Phillips discovered semicolons for this list. Not that he even needs them. But who cares when you can count both humidity and dampness as if they aren't the same thing.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I completely agree with the sentiment, but people like that really do exist. Quite a few of them would choose -20/sun over +5/drizzle. I can't relate at all. Once you get close to -5 there's basically nothing milder that I wouldn't choose over it.

Funnily enough we had a couple of days of +5 and rain or drizzle recently, and I was out with one of my kids, with whom I've rarely discussed the merits of various climates in this way, and the kid was saying that that was probably some of the worst weather imaginable.

It was only tolerable because it was a sign that spring was on the way and helped clean things up snow and mess-wise, but other than that for feeling comfortable a -5 to -10 day would be a lot better.

(Obviously we didn't talk about -20 though.)

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by lio45

I used to think those people moving from Halifax to Fort McMurray did it for the money, but thanks to that list I just learned they were doing it for the weather

The Maple Creek effect.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by lio45

WTF is that "severity index" that rates Yarmouth NS as a more severe climate than Edmonton, and Halifax as a more severe climate than both Fort McMurray and Whitehorse, Yukon?!?!?

To me this registers as a fairly standard Canadian take on the region (e.g. presented as uniquely bad in some way when it's actually just in the ballpark of say Southern Ontario). It's similar to a lot of demographic/economic arguments I see, claims about the culture, and so on. Although this one has an antique feel; it's one of the "golden oldies" of SSP Canada, and I think this negative perspective has faded somewhat since the 2000's. I wonder how much the whole concept of having a place/region to belittle ties in with Canadian insecurity.

[JustForTheHalibut]

^ that sort of reminds me, are there many posters from the Praries on here?
I know of Octacular and Airboy and a couple others but just never hear about goings on or pics of cities there, other than the odd antique photo of Chinook mall or something.

Originally posted by Biguc

This severity index is really poorly done. It's no wonder it yields results so out of whack with what we all know.

I think people in most parts of the country learn to deal with their climate as they know how to deal with it. The Climate Severity Index just gives a level playing field across the country of what average person's discomfort level is in each locale.

If you dropped an Interior BC resident in the maritimes they'd probably struggle with the wind and precipitation, probably most of it as snow as annual average, and the blizzards they get off the ocean they get, noreasters or whatever they call it there.
But if you dropped someone from maritimes in the Interior they'd probably be squinting and moaning about the discomfort of so much sun and feeling dry heat. BC still has the least severe climate in Canada either way.

Originally posted by Acajack

Funnily enough we had a couple of days of +5 and rain or drizzle recently, and I was out with one of my kids, with whom I've rarely discussed the merits of various climates in this way, and the kid was saying that that was probably some of the worst weather imaginable.

It was only tolerable because it was a sign that spring was on the way and helped clean things up snow and mess-wise, but other than that for feeling comfortable a -5 to -10 day would be a lot better.

(Obviously we didn't talk about -20 though.)

I have the same mind set, there's a reason people say it's 'miserable' outside if it's windy and rainy or drizzly outside even if it's above zero but I never hear people say the same thing when it's sunny out, even if it's in -20s. This last Christmas it got down to like -30, I remember because I had to go out to plug the car in, I dressed with an extra layer that next morning but other than that, easy peasy. But if it's even above zero and drizzly I tend to be psychologically less happy at the first glance looking outside the window in the morning, kind of like what SignalHillHiker is like most days with his posts in the weather thread.

If it's sunny, I have sunny disposition for the day automatically no matter the temperature outside. I ski and snowboard so wanting sun instead of cloudy/flat light on slopes probably instills this mind set too I guess, sunny is always better not matter how cold it is. There's a reason people Spring ski or board in shorts and Ts when it's sunny but not when cloudy and drizzly.

[Acajack]

Let's also not forget that no major or even mid-sized city in Canada has average daily highs (ie for the time when most people are out and about) around -20.

I believe the coldest is in places like Winnipeg, Regina and Saskatoon and the average high there is around -11 in January.

Still cold for sure (and yes many places away from the coasts do get the odd -20 high in winter - even Toronto sometimes), but it's not as if it's a binary choice between cool and rainy weather just above the freezing mark and everywhere else where it barely gets above -20 most every day.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by lio45

WTF is that "severity index" that rates Yarmouth NS as a more severe climate than Edmonton, and Halifax as a more severe climate than both Fort McMurray and Whitehorse, Yukon?!?!?

Sydney, NS has a more severe climate than Flin Flon?!?!?

the index doesn't pass the smell test.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by biguc

So a month with a mean daily temperature over ten degrees qualifies as summer, and therefore contributes to that summer's duration, and therefore its severity. So, a month of highs of 15 and lows of 6 would qualify as "summer". That'll really drive up the murder rate. When will these days of interminable sweater weather end?

A place that would be a windless sunny +15C year-round would be ranked as a severe climate using their criteria. (12 continuous months of "Severity of summer", without the welcome relief of a yearly -40C winter to give the people living there a break from the "severity" of their "endless summer".)

In reality, of course, that's like the mildest climate imaginable.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

the index doesn't pass the smell test.

SSP is no stranger to shitty lists but this is close to the worst I recall seeing.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by lio45

SSP is no stranger to shitty lists but this is close to the worst I recall seeing.

The scientific way of validating the list would be to find out how balmy Maple Creek fares. If it ranks alongside Lahaina (Maui) then we know for sure. Both places are renowned for fresh seafood. On the downside, to my knowledge, neither place features an Ardene's.

[JustForTheHalibut]

^Are you a golfer too?
The fairways at that Maple Creek golf and country club across your border in Michigan has a high of like -2 forecast on Sunday, any of the golf courses in Maui will be at about 28C that same day. My guess is seafood always better in Hawaii and Ardene's is Canadian and not likely to be in American malls.
It's a golden age we live in with the internet.

Originally posted by Acajack

Let's also not forget that no major or even mid-sized city in Canada has average daily highs (ie for the time when most people are out and about) around -20.

I believe the coldest is in places like Winnipeg, Regina and Saskatoon and the average high there is around -11 in January.

Still cold for sure (and yes many places away from the coasts do get the odd -20 high in winter - even Toronto sometimes), but it's not as if it's a binary choice between cool and rainy weather just above the freezing mark and everywhere else where it barely gets above -20 most every day.

I'm on a bit of a fact checking kick lately.

well slap my butt and call me Sally,
oddly enough, Saskatoon is the warmest of the 3 cities even though it's farthest north, -8C average high in January at their university weather station there. Winnipeg is the coldest at, you got it, indeed -11, who knew.

If it's anything like here, the average daily high is just an average. It can just as easily be 5 or 10 degrees cooler or warmer any of those given days of the month, but rarely ever only one extreme or the other and nothing in between.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JustForTheHalibut

^Are you a golfer too?
The fairways at that Maple Creek golf and country club across your border in Michigan has a high of like -2 forecast on Sunday, any of the golf courses in Maui will be at about 28C that same day. My guess is seafood always better in Hawaii and Ardene's is Canadian and not likely to be in American malls.
It's a golden age we live in with the internet.




I'm on a bit of a fact checking kick lately.

well slap my butt and call me Sally,
oddly enough, Saskatoon is the warmest of the 3 cities even though it's farthest north, -8C average high in January at their university weather station there. Winnipeg is the coldest at, you got it, indeed -11, who knew.

If it's anything like here, the average daily high is just an average. It can just as easily be 5 or 10 degrees cooler or warmer any of those given days of the month, but rarely ever only one extreme or the other and nothing in between.

Well yeah but a place with a -20 average high will have a lot of winter days with highs of -25 or colder, and your milder winter days will only be -15 to -10.

Everything falls down on either side of the average and your extremes are also generally limited to the average to some degree.

That's why places with 22C average highs in July will fairly regularly see summer days that don't go above 20C, whereas that's pretty rare for places that average 27-28 in July.

Ottawa's record high in January is around 13C, whereas in Winnipeg it's +8.

This is generally what you'll observe in most places, absent very specific local factors like chinooks in Calgary. (Calgary's January record is +18C, higher than Toronto's which is +16C.)

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by JustForTheHalibut

^Are you a golfer too?
The fairways at that Maple Creek golf and country club across your border in Michigan has a high of like -2 forecast on Sunday, any of the golf courses in Maui will be at about 28C that same day. My guess is seafood always better in Hawaii and Ardene's is Canadian and not likely to be in American malls.
It's a golden age we live in with the internet..

He's referring to Maple Creek Saskatchewan, a butt of jokes on SSP for years (like Okotoks AB).