McKnight Boulevard & John Laurie Boulevard

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by H.E.Pennypacker

Dedicate transit-only lanes in both directions, combined with the requirement for very wide setbacks on new developments going forward would vastly improve the pedestrian realm going forward

This and the removal of front parking.

Oh and a concerted effort to properly fix the sidewalks that were dug up during the remodel/utility work would help too.

[craner]

Originally Posted by milomilo

If 16th isn't to become a high quality road way for cars/trucks then we need to downgrade it and make it a high quality corridor for business. Starting by reducing the number of lanes, and stripping it's undeserved Highway 1 status.

How about an alternative TCH designation going west to east consisting of:
Crowchild - Shaganappi - JLB - McKnight

Would need to link Crowchild in the West and McKnight in the east with the TCH outside the city, and upgrade these roads obviously. Would likely require a portion of Northland Mall as well.

This would provide a through-city route for the TCH as well as an expressway for the north half of the city. Would also be closer to YYC than 16th. 16th could be developed into a more successful urban boulevard for businesses and residents. It could be signed as Highway 1A much like MacLeod is 2A.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by craner

How about an alternative TCH designation going west to east consisting of:
Crowchild - Shaganappi - JLB - McKnight

Would need to link Crowchild in the West and McKnight in the east with the TCH outside the city, and upgrade these roads obviously. Would likely require a portion of Northland Mall as well.

This would provide a through-city route for the TCH as well as an expressway for the north half of the city. Would also be closer to YYC than 16th. 16th could be developed into a more successful urban boulevard for businesses and residents. It could be signed as Highway 1A much like MacLeod is 2A.

Think it would be better to use the north route as Highway 1A, and link the TCH to Glenmore Trail in the SE, where it'll reconnect to the TCH west of the city via Sarcee Trail or Stoney Trail SW.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Think it would be better to use the north route as Highway 1A, and link the TCH to Glenmore Trail in the SE, where it'll reconnect to the TCH west of the city via Sarcee Trail or Stoney Trail SW.

I don't think that would work given the restrictions for trucks over the reservoir.

[milomilo]

I don't see what's wrong with using Stoney North as the TCH, it would probably be faster than any of the three East-West routes the majority of the time, and it would benefit the city to keep that traffic out. Glenmore certainly doesn't need any more traffic.

[5seconds]

The long term plans for the TCH in the Calgary area would see the 22x/SW Ring Road become a de facto TCH replacement. The SW Ring Road will not have the same restrictions as the Glenmore causeway.

The TCH and the 22x would split from each other east of Calgary near Eagle Lake, then the ring road would get traffic back to the TCH near COP.

[You Need A Thneed]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I don't think that would work given the restrictions for trucks over the reservoir.

There's only a couple types of dangerous goods that aren't allowed on the causeway.

However, like 5 seconds says, IF the TCH ever gets rerouted, it will take a 22x alignment, not a Glenmore alignment.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by 5seconds

The long term plans for the TCH in the Calgary area would see the 22x/SW Ring Road become a de facto TCH replacement. The SW Ring Road will not have the same restrictions as the Glenmore causeway.

The TCH and the 22x would split from each other east of Calgary near Eagle Lake, then the ring road would get traffic back to the TCH near COP.

I didn't know there were plans for this but I had that as a route in my head, it would make for a more direct route if the 22x could continue heading east until it hit the TCH.

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by milomilo

I didn't know there were plans for this but I had that as a route in my head, it would make for a more direct route if the 22x could continue heading east until it hit the TCH.

Something like this?

http://goo.gl/maps/6zraB

[milomilo]

Yeah, well the Eastern half. Stoney SW looks to be built with the potential for 401 levels of capacity at the ultimate stage so we might as well use it!

[5seconds]

This was raised in 2009 as a potential for a long term plan for the east side of 22x.



Back in the 1950s there was a plan for Glenmore Trail to be an alternative Highway 1 route, though I don't think it went much beyond that decade.

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

Something like this?

http://goo.gl/maps/6zraB

I'm not sure that Highway 22 will ever really grow beyond what it is now through the Tsuu T'ina reserve. There is no benefit to the Nation (that I can see) to allow any expansion of that road.

[DizzyEdge]

Yeah you're both right, I forgot that of course the Western portion would be the western ring road part.

[craner]

Originally Posted by 5seconds

The long term plans for the TCH in the Calgary area would see the 22x/SW Ring Road become a de facto TCH replacement. The SW Ring Road will not have the same restrictions as the Glenmore causeway.

The TCH and the 22x would split from each other east of Calgary near Eagle Lake, then the ring road would get traffic back to the TCH near COP.

This is great, I like it but I would still like to see a cross-town E-W express route in the northern half of the city. I guess that takes us full circle back to the topic of this thread.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by craner

This is great, I like it but I would still like to see a cross-town E-W express route in the northern half of the city. I guess that takes us full circle back to the topic of this thread.

Which could, and should still occur. At least I hope.

For the plans posted above, it's of interest to note that for the following open house that they've went back to the original TCH route with the alignment of 22X to be determined. Could just be optics, and they still have the mindset to go with something similar to what they showed in the 2nd open house.

[dmuzika]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

in theory highway traffic that is just passing through the city is supposed to be using the ring road now that it exists.

However since 16th is officially part of the Trans Canada Highway system, people will continue to use it. even if they're just passing through town.

Maybe we need to relocate Motel Village to an intersection of Stoney / 16th?

And discourage touristy & travellers businesses from locating on 16th?

Except Peters Drive-In. Gotta have a burger & shake (or two) on the way home after a weekend skiing.

I think the issue would also be GPS units for those not familiar with Calgary. In calculating the distance between the 16 Ave/Stoney Trail east and west interchanges, it's 24 km via 16 Ave and 43 km via Stoney Trail and the times are approximately the same (Google Maps give 1 minute less for 16 Ave without accounting for traffic congestion). Motel Village in its present location is enough to encourage people to take Stoney Trail , I think people along the TCH would probably head towards Barlow Trail NE if looking to accommodations.

Originally Posted by craner

How about an alternative TCH designation going west to east consisting of:
Crowchild - Shaganappi - JLB - McKnight

Would need to link Crowchild in the West and McKnight in the east with the TCH outside the city, and upgrade these roads obviously. Would likely require a portion of Northland Mall as well.

This would provide a through-city route for the TCH as well as an expressway for the north half of the city. Would also be closer to YYC than 16th. 16th could be developed into a more successful urban boulevard for businesses and residents. It could be signed as Highway 1A much like MacLeod is 2A.

Your suggested Crowchild - Shaganappi - JLB - McKnight route would make a good Hwy 1A as opposed to 16 Ave. The city seems to be averse to signing urban roads with suffixed routes; Hwy 2A only goes as far north as Hwy 22X while the Hwy 1A connection between Crowchild Trail and 17 Ave SE via 14 St NW & 9 Ave S is long gone. If it’s signed as Hwy 1, connecting it Hwy 1E wouldn’t be too hard but it would be hard to connect with Hwy 1W without going way out of the way and losing any benefit to its current setup.

Originally Posted by Joborule

Think it would be better to use the north route as Highway 1A, and link the TCH to Glenmore Trail in the SE, where it'll reconnect to the TCH west of the city via Sarcee Trail or Stoney Trail SW.

Agreed! Personally, I think it would be good to have a free flow “city route” as well as Stoney Trail as the bypass alternative. Think Hwy 2 with Deerfoot being the city route and Stoney Trail still serving as the bypass. Class 6 Dangerous Goods (Toxic and Infectious Substances) are prohibited on the Glenmore Causeway but they could take Stoney Trail N; realistically they probably shouldn’t be going down 16 Ave either.

Originally Posted by 5seconds

This was raised in 2009 as a potential for a long term plan for the east side of 22x.

Back in the 1950s there was a plan for Glenmore Trail to be an alternative Highway 1 route, though I don't think it went much beyond that decade.

That’s unfortunate. If properly developed, Glenmore Trail could have served as a decent east-west alternative to 16 Ave. With the proposal to build a freeway along Hwy 560 between Stoney Trail and Langdon, I’m wondering if it would be more cost effective to link the Hwy 560 freeway with Hwy 1 somewhere between Langdon and Strathmore than expanding Hwy 22X in its entirety. Glenmore seems to offer more options for Calgary-bound TCH traffic than Hwy 22X.

Was the initial plan to use Glenmore Trail, or the shelved 50 Avenue Freeway? I saw some studies in the library a while back that proposed constructing a freeway along 50 Ave S from present-day Glenmore Trail/Mount Royal College to the eastern city limits and only resulted in Peigan Trail. Had that come into fruition, it could have been a feasible alternative.

[5seconds]

Originally Posted by dmuzika

Was the initial plan to use Glenmore Trail, or the shelved 50 Avenue Freeway? I saw some studies in the library a while back that proposed constructing a freeway along 50 Ave S from present-day Glenmore Trail/Mount Royal College to the eastern city limits and only resulted in Peigan Trail. Had that come into fruition, it could have been a feasible alternative.

It's interesting. Early plans (1952) had 50th ave as a primary E-W route in the south of the City, but by 1956 this gave way to Glenmore trail. The first ring road plans from this time show Glenmore as the primary route, and I suspect this had to do with the existence of the old Air Force base at Mount Royal interrupting the 50th ave corridor. By 1959 both routes were planned, and at different times over the following few decades, it varied between 50th and Glenmore being seen as the primary route in the area.

As recently as 1970 there were Provincial plans to have 50th ave south link with the Trans Canada just east of Chestermere.

[dmuzika]

Originally Posted by 5seconds

It's interesting. Early plans (1952) had 50th ave as a primary E-W route in the south of the City, but by 1956 this gave way to Glenmore trail. The first ring road plans from this time show Glenmore as the primary route, and I suspect this had to do with the existence of the old Air Force base at Mount Royal interrupting the 50th ave corridor. By 1959 both routes were planned, and at different times over the following few decades, it varied between 50th and Glenmore being seen as the primary route in the area.

As recently as 1970 there were Provincial plans to have 50th ave south link with the Trans Canada just east of Chestermere.

It seems a possible (but unlikely) realignment of the Trans Canada could be Peigan-Deerfoot-Glenmore-Sarcee. The Calf Robe Bridge could become the worst bottleneck in the city with both Hwy 1 and Hwy 2 utilizing it

[Joborule]

Come to think of it, the reason the province may want to make Highway 22X the southern bypass route for the TCH is because it would make use of a corridor that they already have control over. Taking on the ownership of Glenmore Trail would just add more responsibility to them; which they're trying to reduce since they want to give Deerfoot to the city.

[SOSS]

So getting back on topic...

Any update on the straightening of John Laurie and McKnight?

[lineman]

IMO, if there were money to spend on McKnight, that corner would be pretty low on the priority list.