West Village Concept Plan

[fusili]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Instead of having a different bridge design for each neighbourhood, why not take the Calatrava design, crank it out like sausage & plunk these bridges down wherever we need them?

Because the Calatrava design is unique, and specifically built for the site in question: no masts, no pilings into the river. And the whole point of the architecture is that it isn't the same as others.

[Beltliner]

Originally Posted by sim

Well, you can take comfort in the fact that we will know. In fact, not only are the quotes picked from an anonymous reader, they happen to be picked from one who was making highly but subtly sarcastic comments, mimicking what a persceptive, albeit, run-of-the-mill Calgarian would probably say. In fact, the whole story seems to be based on said comments:

The original story:
http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Ca...712/story.html

How do I know this? Well I happen to be said anonymous reader, and can literally not stop laughing about this entire story. I don't know if you can share in this, but this honestly made my day, perhaps week.

I feel I accomplished quite a bit with my comments.

And just like that, folks, The Fishwrap got FRANKED! Who knew it would be that easy?

Nice work, sim!

[Policy Wonk]

Originally Posted by frinkprof

^I believe it was a full on creosote plant.

The original creosote remediation was finished years ago, in Dizzy's photo you can see the remains of the barrier built in the river to prevent contamination during the work.

As for the Chrysler and GM dealerships - I seriously either will be around to matter. Same goes for the Ford and GM dealers on 9th Ave.

The CPR isn't going anywhere, but their right-of-way could be significantly reduced in width given passenger service is never to return so the tracks can be reduced since there are no multiple platforms to stop at or by-pass.

[CorporateWhore]

Originally Posted by Beltliner

And just like that, folks, The Fishwrap got FRANKED! Who knew it would be that easy?

Except most people will still read the actual article and think's it's based on an authentic opinion. Without the comment, who know if they would even have written the article.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Instead of having a different bridge design for each neighbourhood, why not take the Calatrava design, crank it out like sausage & plunk these bridges down wherever we need them?

Because bridges should respond to their specific context - for instance the St. Patrick's bridge has totally different dimensions and needs to allow people to dismount onto the Island in the middle of it. No need for such a long uninterupted span. Plus it would be boring and repetitive.

[CorporateWhore]

I wrote Jason a snarky email this morning....at least he was courteous enough to respond (I probably wouldn't have). It did give me the chance to mention Sim's actual comment in my reply however....

[srperrycgy]

CPR could always do what they did in Lethbridge in the 1980s and move some of their yards outside the city.

[lubicon]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

The CPR tracks are what had to built in 1883 to keep BC in confederation. If I remember my history correctly, the CPR also got the land for 1 mile on each side of their mainline tracks.

In this location it appears they sold the land for the creosote plant (presumably for creosoting railway ties that the CPR needed for building & maintaining their tracks), so the people moving into Scarboro & lower Scarboro probably wern't too upset that the stinky creosote plant was 'on the other side of the tracks'.

Now after 125+ years of trains rolling by, we want to redevelop this land and easily join it to the rest of the neighborhood south of the railway.

Let's dust off the old Trudeau-era Federal plans to remove the CPR tracks from downtown and build some rail tunnels under the Nose Hill (one EB and one WB).

Seriously.

The Western portal would be near Bearspaw Dam Road & 85th St running under Silver Springs, and the Eastern portal would be near 64th Ave / Nose Creek. All the tracks between Bowness, Downtown and Inglewood would be ripped up and the land redeveloped, or turned back to parkland (aka Rails to Trails).

Hopefully the recession is over by the time this gets all approved, so selling the old CPR lands for redevelopment downtown during the next economic boom should easily pay for the cost of the tunnels.

Going OT here...They got a lot more than just a mile on either side of the tracks. It amounted to 25 000 000 acres in western Canada, and more importantly, they got the mineral rights too. That land has proven to be loaded with oil and gas which has proven to be worth billions, and is why Pan Canadian Petroleum (now Encana) came about.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by fusili

And how will trains access the yards in the SE. As much as I hate the downtown CPR tracks, I think we just have to face the fact that they are here to stay. I would imagine the cost of removing them and rerouting the tracks would be in the billions.

Google maps shows that at the east portal, the Nose Creek CPR tracks that head north to Red Deer and Edmonton also head south parallel to Deerfoot, across Memorial, over the Bow, through Inglewood, past 17th & Blackfoot, and into the Odgen Yards.

Costs for tunneling are typically $75 M per KM; portal-to-portal distance is around 11 KM = $825 Million (BTW The Mount Macdonald Tunnel under Rogers Pass is 14.5 KM and cost $500 M in 1988). Add $200 M for new tracks, signals &tc in the tunnels. We're up to just over $1 Billion.

Now, What is the value of 54 city blocks of land (bordered by 21st St W, 6th St E, 9th Ave and 10th Ave) that is mostly made up of railway tracks and parking lots? After excluding Palliser Square & parkade, Gulf Canada Square & parkade, and other developed sites like the Palliser Hotel, you would still have around 50 blocks to sell for $150 M each. Doing the math ...... $7.5 Billion.

OK ... some blocks are worth less than others, so we'll probably net closer to $6.0 B for all the property after the expenses of returning it to 'brownfield'. That's still more than the tunnelling costs. And a nifty profit too.

We haven't touched the land between Crowchild & Bowness. Maybe the CPR would be a good corporate citizen & donate it as parkland.

And the Inglewood land? I dunno. It's a becoming a hip & trendy neighborhood, so what would you do with it?

No doubt someone in the CPR will realise they could make more money leasing the land to developers, or develop it themselves (google "Marathon Realty").

[YYCguys]

Scarboro on the Bow sounds good. What about Scarboro on the Park or Southbow Village?

[DizzyEdge]

Creosote Meadows

[frinkprof]

Jeez. Nothing worse than having to explain a joke, especially one that is sarcastic. Really, there's only two ways to read Sim's comment.

1. Heavily sarcastic.

2. Over-the-top, negative, over-speculative ranting.

What did the Herald/Markusoff do? Took it seriously and made it news. What's next, making "Hank H." editor? As funny as this is for sim and the rest of us for having been let in on the joke, I think it is also complete BS "journalism" on the Herald's part. I think it needs to be exposed as such.

I for one will be writing to the Herald about this, and I encourage all of you to do the same.

EDIT: For those who don't know who "Hank H." is, he (?) is a regular commenter on the Herald's online articles. Again, he is either an ill-informed or un-informed idiot or some clever person's caricature of such a person.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

Creosote Meadows

Weste Bowe Parke
Scarboro Parke


Must. stop. this!
What if Bronco likes one & starts using it?

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

Creosote remediation was finished years ago, in Dizzy's photo you can see the remains of the barrier built in the river to prevent contamination during the work.

Thanks. It was indeed a creosote plant though right, as opposed to the creosote treatment being a secondary function of a lumber yard or other use?

[MichaelS]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Google maps shows that at the east portal, the Nose Creek CPR tracks that head north to Red Deer and Edmonton also head south parallel to Deerfoot, across Memorial, over the Bow, through Inglewood, past 17th & Blackfoot, and into the Odgen Yards.

Costs for tunneling are typically $75 M per KM; portal-to-portal distance is around 11 KM = $825 Million (BTW The Mount Macdonald Tunnel under Rogers Pass is 14.5 KM and cost $500 M in 1988). Add $200 M for new tracks, signals &tc in the tunnels. We're up to just over $1 Billion.

Now, What is the value of 54 city blocks of land (bordered by 21st St W, 6th St E, 9th Ave and 10th Ave) that is mostly made up of railway tracks and parking lots? After excluding Palliser Square & parkade, Gulf Canada Square & parkade, and other developed sites like the Palliser Hotel, you would still have around 50 blocks to sell for $150 M each. Doing the math ...... $7.5 Billion.

OK ... some blocks are worth less than others, so we'll probably net closer to $6.0 B for all the property after the expenses of returning it to 'brownfield'. That's still more than the tunnelling costs. And a nifty profit too.

We haven't touched the land between Crowchild & Bowness. Maybe the CPR would be a good corporate citizen & donate it as parkland.

And the Inglewood land? I dunno. It's a becoming a hip & trendy neighborhood, so what would you do with it?

No doubt someone in the CPR will realise they could make more money leasing the land to developers, or develop it themselves (google "Marathon Realty").

Does CPR own all of those undeveloped blocks of land? I have a feeling they don't.

[CorporateWhore]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

Creosote Meadows

Let's combine Cresote Meadows and Scarboro Parke.....Scrote Meadows.

[MonctonGoldenFlames]

what about riverview instead of west village?

[danofkent]

How about Cloudyside, given that Sunnyside is on the opposite bank of the river?! Or keep it in Sunalta, but give it a subdivisional name, like developers do in new communities - Sunalta Bank.

[sim]

I will do my best to write the Herald, ffwd, etc. I don't have time yet, but hope to Thursday. What are the chances they actually print it? Well, worth a try.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by CorporateWhore

Let's combine Cresote Meadows and Scarboro Parke.....Scrote Meadows.

I suddenly have an urge to scratch ....