Ash Tree Disaster

[Wentworth]

What is the deal with these trees that are dying everywhere, at least on the West side of the city where I live. I believe they are Ash trees? Some of them only have leaves on a few branches, some have none at all. I did some googling on this and it seems like there is an insect that has been attacking these trees for the past 7 years... yet the City has continue to plant them heavily in new subdivisions.

[rapid_business]

Not to mention ash trees need tons of water. they don't do good in our climate, and these year has been the kicker for sure.

[lrt's friend]

From what I have read, I believe the trees are being damaged by Cottony Ash Psyllid. Here in Ottawa, we are facing a much serious ash pest, the emerald ash borer, which was first found in the city last year. This was first found in 2002 in North America and it is expected to kill every ash tree in Ottawa within 15 years. This will be a far worse environmental catastrophe than Dutch Elm Disease as ash has been the most popularly planted street tree and is a common native tree in local forests. This borer was first found in the American midwest and I believe it has now travelled as far west as Wisconsin so far. Start looking for alternative trees to plant in Calgary!

[drew]

^ that's crazy. They planted ash trees for a while here in Winnipeg to replace elms - mostly due to dutch elm disease. I guess there isn't a tree you can plant that will be completely worry free. Probably the best approach is to mix and match a variety of species that are native to the area.

Isn't the Calgary climate better suited to coniferous trees?

[rapid_business]

/\ It's better suited for wild grasses... and things that don't need much water.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by drew

Isn't the Calgary climate better suited to coniferous trees?

To some degree yeah, they do pretty well out here. Natively they only grow in the river valleys and in the mountains - keep in mind that naturally, Calgary is just like Winnipeg. No trees and just grass everywhere. Conifers tend to do well in poor soil and varying moisture, and dry, cold winters. Chinooks don't tend to hurt them as much as deciduous trees either - the wax in the needles is amazing.

The ash trees being planted in Calgary aren't as stupid an idea as people think - at least in my neighbourhood they're a drought-tolerant ash and have done just fine this year, where we didn't see a drop of rain for 2 months. Not all ash trees are the same. In fact you can even find a variety of maple tree that grows fairly well here, which amazes people from out east (or anywhere maples normally grow, really) as maples usually AREN'T good in a semi-arid climate.

The single best tree for Calgary continues to be the aspen/poplar types planted heavily in the 1960s-1980s or so (from my random guessing on neighbourhood ages). These things grow like freaking weeds, and while they don't form the massive overhanging canopies that you see on the really nice elm-lined streets of Winnipeg - man those are cool - the aspen here can get the same height in only 30 years or so. Quite remarkable considering the climate.

Only problem is, they grow TOO well, and their roots are very annoying, so they clog sewer lines, crack sidewalks, and in general cause a lot of grief for the City. Hence the switch to the more well-behaved ash trees. Unfortunately the ash grow somewhat slower and are prone to disease.

PS: someone should rename this thread to "Calgary's trees" or something, because there are several forumers who know lots more about all this than I do, and it's a fun discussion. Especially this year with the crazy weather that's killed half the grass and replaced it with clover.

[You Need A Thneed]

^ On my parent's street in Whitehorn, they have replaced roughly half of the tall poplars with small ash trees. The rest will likely be replaced a few years down the road. It's almost sad to see really, there used to be a fairly nice canopy over the street, now it's mostly gone. Lots of other communities in the area with poplars have done the same thing.

[drew]

^ poplars are notoriously brittle and can be dangerous in storms with high winds. Once they get to a certain age, I think they just get cut down to avoid further problems. Ash trees grow more slowly, but the end result is a much better tree IMO. Elms are nice too, but they have those annoying little papery seeds that get everywhere.

[rapid_business]

/\ which is much better then the poplar fuzz from the female poplars....

[Wentworth]

Originally Posted by freeweed

To some degree yeah, they do pretty well out here. Natively they only grow in the river valleys and in the mountains - keep in mind that naturally, Calgary is just like Winnipeg. No trees and just grass everywhere. Conifers tend to do well in poor soil and varying moisture, and dry, cold winters. Chinooks don't tend to hurt them as much as deciduous trees either - the wax in the needles is amazing.

It's sad that nobody plants Colorado Spruce any more, at least in the new suburbs, because peoples yards are too small and they don't want large trees. This is one thing I like about the Palliser-Oakridge area, which is heavily planted with spruce. That neighbourhood is especially beautiful in the winter.

The ash trees being planted in Calgary aren't as stupid an idea as people think - at least in my neighbourhood they're a drought-tolerant ash and have done just fine this year, where we didn't see a drop of rain for 2 months. Not all ash trees are the same. In fact you can even find a variety of maple tree that grows fairly well here, which amazes people from out east (or anywhere maples normally grow, really) as maples usually AREN'T good in a semi-arid climate.

I see a lot of carnage in the population of teenaged Ash trees on the west side of the city. For example, watch as you drive along Sierra Morena drive in Westhills, or around the Westside rec center (There are over a dozen dead trees along the North edge of the parking lot.) Also, I was noticing dying trees today along 85th Street and into the adjacent neighbourhoods. Ironically, the elms I saw seemed to be doing well.

The single best tree for Calgary continues to be the aspen/poplar types planted heavily in the 1960s-1980s or so (from my random guessing on neighbourhood ages). These things grow like freaking weeds, and while they don't form the massive overhanging canopies that you see on the really nice elm-lined streets of Winnipeg - man those are cool - the aspen here can get the same height in only 30 years or so. Quite remarkable considering the climate.

Only problem is, they grow TOO well, and their roots are very annoying, so they clog sewer lines, crack sidewalks, and in general cause a lot of grief for the City. Hence the switch to the more well-behaved ash trees. Unfortunately the ash grow somewhat slower and are prone to disease.

Agreed. My area of the city used to be carpeted in Aspen trees. They thrive like crazy here. As do Cottonwood poplars. The poplars get a bit of a bum rap, and the City has a web page that tries to counter some of the old arguments against poplars. ( See the link below, note that you have to click on the links at the left to navigate through their "FAQ".)


http://www.calgary.ca/portal/server....plar+Trees.htm

[freeweed]

Neat link. I thought it was the city trying to stop with the poplars; apparently I (and everyone who tells me this) was wrong. This must be a choice of developers, because all I see these days are ash and a few other less common species I can't identify. Royal Oak has these beautiful purple-leaved trees on some boulevards that I'd love to have in my yard.

Poplar fluff is certainly less annoying than many tree residues. There's some nasty tree popular in a few of the older (1950s?) parts of Calgary that has aphids that constantly excrete a sticky liquid that gets all over cars, decks, people... I'm amazed people don't cut every one of those down as it's very disgusting.

Agreed with the spruce. We're going to plant at least a couple of blue spruce in the back yard, because we have the room, and she loves them. I suspect a few poplars as well, just to get some natural cooling on the house. I'm still stubbornly avoiding central air - this year is certainly backing my thoughts there - but the last couple of summers have had some excruciatingly hot evenings where I'd love to have had some shade on the west side of the house.

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by freeweed

In fact you can even find a variety of maple tree that grows fairly well here, which amazes people from out east (or anywhere maples normally grow, really) as maples usually AREN'T good in a semi-arid climate.

Don't mean to be a tree wienie here (but I will be) but of the over 125 varities of maples, over 80 will grow quite well in Calgary. Of the largest species, the most popular specimens are both the Silver Maple and the Japanese maple. Even Sugar Maples - though not native - will grow quite well here in the right spots. I don't have pictures of them, but I can attest to 6 16 year-old Sugar maples in Silver Springs that are well over 8 metres tall!

Originally Posted by freeweed

The single best tree for Calgary continues to be the aspen/poplar types planted heavily in the 1960s-1980s or so (from my random guessing on neighbourhood ages). These things grow like freaking weeds, and while they don't form the massive overhanging canopies that you see on the really nice elm-lined streets of Winnipeg - man those are cool - the aspen here can get the same height in only 30 years or so. Quite remarkable considering the climate.

The Poplar you're seeing is called "Northwest" and yes they do grow well and fast here. (FYI, Aspens are much different and don't grow near as tall as Poplars) The issue with roots is more of a red herring as their real downside is that they are short lived and after about 25 years they start to die off and can pose quite a hazard. On the other hand, the Ppoplar we find natively along the river banks in Calgary - the Cottonwood Poplar - is a medium-long lived specimen - though it really does need "wet feet" so it's used less in residential planting

The Green Ash is actually quite well suited to this climate as its native range includes southern Alberta. Many conifers also do well here, especially the Douglas Fir in our river valleys. My absolute favourie though is the Bur Oak. It is a real shame that this tree wasn't planted like crazy in the early part of the century as they are incredibly slow growing, but are truly magnificent when full size. There are a swack of 20 year old specimens of the Bur Oak in Olympic Plaza plus a block or two of nearly full grown ones on 17th Ave NW just east of 4th St.

Even the challenging Birch will do well here in the right environments, though it is too bad that the city planted too many of them in the 50's and 60's in the wrong locations.

Finally, in the Lowery Gardens area some unique gems can be found - there's a couple of Black Cherry trees from an old abandoned orchard, a couple of stands of Weeping willows and some fantastic White pines

Originally Posted by freeweed

PS: someone should rename this thread to "Calgary's trees" or something, because there are several forumers who know lots more about all this than I do, and it's a fun discussion. Especially this year with the crazy weather that's killed half the grass and replaced it with clover.

Trees ... on a forum extolling the virtues of urban living??? What next, a thread about rabbits???

[Ferreth]

Originally Posted by Wentworth

http://www.calgary.ca/portal/server....plar+Trees.htm

So the city had to take the time to address complaints about "excess Poplar Leaves"?!?! Sheesh, some (lazy leave rakers) will complain about anything! I will complain about weeping willows though - they seem to hang on to their leaves until the snow is on the ground - THEN drop the rest of 'em. Kinda hard to rake snow 'n leaves together.

[freeweed]

Never understood the whole bitch about leaves anyway. You can either mulch them up with your mower, or if they fall in the winter - well, every lawn needs some work in the spring anyway.

People in Calgary who complain about leaves have NO idea what real leaves are like. Visit Montreal in October/early November to see meter high drifts everywhere, then tell me poplars are a leaf problem.

[Wentworth]

Originally Posted by shreddog

<snip>
The Green Ash is actually quite well suited to this climate as its native range includes southern Alberta. Many conifers also do well here, especially the Douglas Fir in our river valleys. My absolute favourie though is the Bur Oak. It is a real shame that this tree wasn't planted like crazy in the early part of the century as they are incredibly slow growing, but are truly magnificent when full size. There are a swack of 20 year old specimens of the Bur Oak in Olympic Plaza plus a block or two of nearly full grown ones on 17th Ave NW just east of 4th St.
<snip>

The Bur Oak is a hard sell at the garden centres because they look absolutely gangly when young. But I have one in my yard and it's one of my favourites.

Trees ... on a forum extolling the virtues of urban living??? What next, a thread about rabbits???

Personally, I think the natural landscape is a huge factor in the cities that we consider to be models for urban living. Think Portland or Vancouver as examples.

[sauril]

Originally Posted by freeweed

People in Calgary who complain about leaves have NO idea what real leaves are like. Visit Montreal in October/early November to see meter high drifts everywhere, then tell me poplars are a leaf problem.

No kidding, one of my least favourite jobs growing up was raking all the leaves. We must have had 30 bags every year to fill. We did have a rather large yard, though.

[tdurden5573]

5 Years ago I had to replace the 50 year old trees around my lot (in Calgary), I planted an Oak, Maple, Elm, Hawthorn, Royalty Crab and Mountain Ash. All are in sunny dry locations, but I water them heavy in the spring and fall.

The Elm is gowing the fastest, followed closely by the Maple the Crab, Hawthorn adn Ash are growing albiet slowly, and the Oak although healthy is still close to the same size.

I agree that its best to plant a variety of trees and plants keeps disasters like Dutch Elm and Ash problem from getting out of control.

[Slug]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Poplar fluff is certainly less annoying than many tree residues. There's some nasty tree popular in a few of the older (1950s?) parts of Calgary that has aphids that constantly excrete a sticky liquid that gets all over cars, decks, people... I'm amazed people don't cut every one of those down as it's very disgusting.

Those would be Manitoba Maples, my brothers truck gets a fresh coat on a daily basis. I remember seeing a Herald article last month about a disgruntled car owner threatening to cut down all the nearby city trees because of the sticky goo. It would be a riot if way back then the city decided to alternate between the Maples and Poplars... tarred and feathered.

Almost all of the Poplars around here have been replaced due to encroaching root growth following the weeping tile right to the houses. However, blame could also be passed to the local neighborhood kids myself included turning the trees into a giant climbable playground freaking all our parents out.

Originally Posted by Wentworth

The Bur Oak is a hard sell at the garden centres because they look absolutely gangly when young. But I have one in my yard and it's one of my favourites.

Here in Manitoba, Bur Oak grows naturally. In natural areas, we have "Oak Savannahs" where its mostly Oak trees and grass. Doesn't even look like your typical prairie habitat, but that is what makes it unique. And you are correct, kinda wimpy looking when young, but absolutely gorgeous when full grown.

[octothorp]

Yeah, the bur oaks are fantastic; I was excited to see that they were one of the recommended trees in the NeighbourWoods program, but unfortunately, on my particular street it wasn't an option due to overhead power lines, so I'm stuck with some type of hawthorn instead.