just out of interest: a comparison of Vancouver and Calgary

[swimmer_spe]

Lets look at a few things that need to be thought of when comparing the 2 cities.

Calgary has lots of land it could expand to.
Vancouver is bordered by the ocean, mountains, and the USA. They need to build up as they how no other choice.

A wide median like that could see highways as wide as the 401 which is as wide as 9 lanes a side. That wide median could also house a rail line encircling the city.

Lets look at Toronto and Calgary for the same things

Toronto has the lake as it's only barrier. It has been sprawling out.

The narrowest part of the 401 is 8 lanes in Toronto. This is due to the limited amount of land to build on.

Vancouver's Highway 1 is 3 lanes. They have widened it in Burnaby, but still, it is qute narrow.

[SOSS]

I highly doubt we will ever see LRT along the Calgary or Edmonton Ring Roads. It will house various services like power, gas, and other utilities.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by SOSS

I highly doubt we will ever see LRT along the Calgary or Edmonton Ring Roads. It will house various services like power, gas, and other utilities.

Why would they also not put an LRT there?

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Lets look at a few things that need to be thought of when comparing the 2 cities.

Calgary has lots of land it could expand to.
Vancouver is bordered by the ocean, mountains, and the USA. They need to build up as they how no other choice.

A wide median like that could see highways as wide as the 401 which is as wide as 9 lanes a side. That wide median could also house a rail line encircling the city.

Lets look at Toronto and Calgary for the same things

Toronto has the lake as it's only barrier. It has been sprawling out.

The narrowest part of the 401 is 8 lanes in Toronto. This is due to the limited amount of land to build on.

Vancouver's Highway 1 is 3 lanes. They have widened it in Burnaby, but still, it is qute narrow.

Its 4 lanes now from Langley / Surrey border to the Burnaby / Vancouver border (35 km length I believe), with a short 3 KM long 5 lane section (via a C/D system) over the Port Mann bridge.

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

The narrowest part of the 401 is 8 lanes in Toronto. This is due to the limited amount of land to build on.

Vancouver's Highway 1 is 3 lanes. They have widened it in Burnaby, but still, it is qute narrow.

Yes. Narrowest point of 401 at 8-lanes in Toronto - 4 lanes in each direction.

As for Metro Vancouver's Hwy 1? Also 8-lanes - 4 lanes in each direction. So what's your actual point?!

PS. Hwy 1 is 3 lanes in total? Ya must be joking.

[Daveography]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Why would they also not put an LRT there?

A better question is, why would they? What would it service? Nothing other than utilities will be built in the utility corridor.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by SOSS

I highly doubt we will ever see LRT along the Calgary or Edmonton Ring Roads. It will house various services like power, gas, and other utilities.

Might see one connecting the SE line to the S line along the TUC. Another possibility would be to follow the SW TUC from the S line to connect to the W line or maybe over the Foothills hospital and the NW line. I doubt any kind of orbital will be on the radar for decades, but the TUC at least preserves the option.

[Doug]

Vancouver is a resort city. Calgary is a commercial center. Land use will be hugely different (ex. Vancouver doesn't need as much road infrastructure to service logistics industry or as much peak rush hour capacity). Better comparisons for a Vancouver would be Honolulu and Miami, others cities designed for tourists, retirees and the idle rich.

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by Doug

Vancouver is a resort city. Calgary is a commercial center. Land use will be hugely different (ex. Vancouver doesn't need as much road infrastructure to service logistics industry or as much peak rush hour capacity). Better comparisons for a Vancouver would be Honolulu and Miami, others cities designed for tourists, retirees and the idle rich.

Vancouver is also the site of Canada's largest port (by far) with the associated industrial land, road and rail needed to support the movement of 140 million metric tonnes of cargo annually. This alone makes it a very different proposition to Honolulu or Miami.

[Procrastinational]

Originally Posted by Hourglass

Vancouver is also the site of Canada's largest port (by far) with the associated industrial land, road and rail needed to support the movement of 140 million metric tonnes of cargo annually. This alone makes it a very different proposition to Honolulu or Miami.

Miami actually has a rather significant port as well.

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by Procrastinational

Miami actually has a rather significant port as well.

Miami is a massive cruise port, but in terms of cargo Miami handled 8 million tons of cargo in 2013 -- less than 10% of Vancouver's port.

[Procrastinational]

Originally Posted by Hourglass

Miami is a massive cruise port, but in terms of cargo Miami handled 8 million tons of cargo in 2013 -- less than 10% of Vancouver's port.

Still takes up a fair bit of land, as does the port in Vancouver, and is associated with 176,000 jobs in the Miami area apparently (according to Wikipedia).

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Doug

Vancouver is a resort city. Calgary is a commercial center. Land use will be hugely different (ex. Vancouver doesn't need as much road infrastructure to service logistics industry or as much peak rush hour capacity). Better comparisons for a Vancouver would be Honolulu and Miami, others cities designed for tourists, retirees and the idle rich.

I would call Vancouver more of a destination city than a resort city. Palm Springs and Las Vegas are resort cities.

There's not a whole lot of difference between Vancouver and Calgary as far as empty dwellings go. A study done a few years ago shows the rate of empty dwellings for the City of Vancouver at 7.7%. Calgary is at 5%. The difference is even less if you were to include the whole Metro region.

Mr. Yan’s analysis entailed isolating the census data on dwellings that showed up as either “unoccupied” or occupied “by a foreign resident and/or by temporarily present persons” on Census Day 2011, which was May 10.

“These units could be non-resident occupied because their occupants were just away for the Census Day, between rental tenants, or moving in a just-opened building, but there is also a chance that they are someone’s pied-à-terre, vacation home or empty investment holding,” observed Mr. Yan.

In the city of Vancouver, the rate of those kinds of dwellings stood at 7.7 per cent overall, with some parts of the downtown as high as 23 per cent. In the city of Toronto, the rate was 5.4 per cent; in Calgary, 5 per cent.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/...ticle10044403/

[ssiguy]

Toronto may have it's wide highways but still is more densely populated than Greater Vancouver by a significant margin. Toronto is also bordered by a Greenbelt and the GTA is 3X the size of Vancouver.

Calgary has done transportation better than Vancouver by nearly all metrics. It's CTrain system is the most successful LRT system in NA, it the equivalent per-capita ridership level of Vancouver yet is half the size, it has a better highway system, and far shorter commutes. Despite it's relative small size Vancouver has NA's second longest commuting times..................when it comes to transportation clearly the "Vancouver model" doesn't work.

High ridership levels combined with good roads and excellent bike path network has left Calgarians with a great transportation system.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Toronto may have it's wide highways but still is more densely populated than Greater Vancouver by a significant margin. Toronto is also bordered by a Greenbelt and the GTA is 3X the size of Vancouver.

Calgary has done transportation better than Vancouver by nearly all metrics. It's CTrain system is the most successful LRT system in NA, it the equivalent per-capita ridership level of Vancouver yet is half the size, it has a better highway system, and far shorter commutes. Despite it's relative small size Vancouver has NA's second longest commuting times..................when it comes to transportation clearly the "Vancouver model" doesn't work.

High ridership levels combined with good roads and excellent bike path network has left Calgarians with a great transportation system.

At this point you must just be screwing with us. Calgary's transit system, like Portland's, is more a product of hype than actual quality. Not to mention its high ridership is more related to just about everybody needing to go one place than to multiple nodes like we have. If we put 90% of our jobs downtown like they did, and then sacrificed urban form to make it easy to get to that one spot in the city, we could do it too. But we just decided to build a livable city instead.

[logan5]

yeah itr just seems like Calgary doesn't do density outside of downtown at all. There are a few dense projects sprinkeled around, but nothing like the regional centers Metro Vancouver is building. Metrotown is at close to 30 000 people now, and more densely populated than the Beltline. Brentwood is growing at a rantic rate and will be another dense suburban centre (with shitty street life I might add). But definately a different growth strategy between the 2 cities.

The longer commute times can be partly blamed on our city building out in one direction - east. As opposed to Calgary where you're always close to the city centre.

[msmariner]

As someone who has lived almost as long in both areas. I grew up on the island, but spent lots of time in Vancouver. I've spent the past 17 years in Calgary. To say that Calgary suffers from urban sprawl is kinda laughable in relative terms. There isn't any part of calgary that isn't within a 20-30 min drive at any time of the day. Where as Vancouver as a whole is the model of sprawl. 20-30 mins doesn't get you to Burnaby from downtown. Probably up to hours away during rush hour to the edges of the valley.
One of the reasons I fell in love with Calgary was the ability to go anywhere in the city in a short period of time. That's not something greater Vancouver can boast. One of the biggest draws was that I have friends In all corners of the city and see them often. I live in the east side of the city, but head to the north and west sides of the city regularly. In the lower mainland you rarely go downtown if you live in Langley or go to Pitt Meadows if you live in Richmond.
The two cities can't be any different if they tried. Some people like myself love Calgary to death and wouldn't change a thing. Others love everything about the lower mainland. Unless you've spent lots a time in both, I'm not sure you can judge the positives or negatives of either. Just one guys opinion

[GlassCity]

Is there any way to calculate how far Vancouver would sprawl if it was able to do so in all directions, not just east? I just tried to do it, but it's too late and I'm too bad at math for it to have any chance of being right.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by msmariner

As someone who has lived almost as long in both areas. I grew up on the island, but spent lots of time in Vancouver. I've spent the past 17 years in Calgary. To say that Calgary suffers from urban sprawl is kinda laughable in relative terms. There isn't any part of calgary that isn't within a 20-30 min drive at any time of the day. Where as Vancouver as a whole is the model of sprawl. 20-30 mins doesn't get you to Burnaby from downtown. Probably up to hours away during rush hour to the edges of the valley.
One of the reasons I fell in love with Calgary was the ability to go anywhere in the city in a short period of time. That's not something greater Vancouver can boast. One of the biggest draws was that I have friends In all corners of the city and see them often. I live in the east side of the city, but head to the north and west sides of the city regularly. In the lower mainland you rarely go downtown if you live in Langley or go to Pitt Meadows if you live in Richmond.

Maybe 17 years ago you could get anywhere in 20-30 minutes. If you're going from the deep south or north of the city to anywhere on the opposite side of downtown, 20-30 minutes would a very fast trip. Just getting from, say, Chinook to Sunnyside will take you that long if there's any traffic at all.

Type "Cranston to Coventry Hills" into google maps. 48 minutes, in no traffic. A city of 1.3 million people that takes 45-50 minutes to traverse end-to-end, largely at highway speed, is a sprawling city.

And Burnaby is closer to downtown Vancouver than Calgary's airport is to downtown Calgary. Traffic congestion might make the drive longer, but that doesn't mean it sprawls--it means driving a car might not be the best way to get around. (For what it's worth, I DO think Vancouver and the Lower Mainland sprawl--but Calgary moreso.)

[msmariner]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Maybe 17 years ago you could get anywhere in 20-30 minutes. If you're going from the deep south or north of the city to anywhere on the opposite side of downtown, 20-30 minutes would a very fast trip. Just getting from, say, Chinook to Sunnyside will take you that long if there's any traffic at all.

Type "Cranston to Coventry Hills" into google maps. 48 minutes, in no traffic. A city of 1.3 million people that takes 45-50 minutes to traverse end-to-end, largely at highway speed, is a sprawling city.

And Burnaby is closer to downtown Vancouver than Calgary's airport is to downtown Calgary. Traffic congestion might make the drive longer, but that doesn't mean it sprawls--it means driving a car might not be the best way to get around. (For what it's worth, I DO think Vancouver and the Lower Mainland sprawl--but Calgary moreso.)

I'm guessing you haven't been to Calgary recently. With the Stoney Trail 3/4 completed (it's a freeway), Cranston ( or anywhere in the Deep South) to Coventry (or anywhere in the north) is a breeze now. It's done easily in less than 30 mins.
Comparing DT Calgary to the airport and DT Vancouver to Burnaby isn't a good comparison. It's freeway in Calgary...