Austin | 700 River | 500 Feet | 42 Floors | T/O

[The ATX]

This project will probably be worthy of its own thread when we get more info as soon as Monday. The site plan went into review last Wednesday, so the formal site plan could be added to the site plan application online sometime Monday. The site plan application refers to the project as "River Street Market & Hotel". But the uses are both hotel and residential.

https://abc.austintexas.gov/web/perm...rtyrsn=1121218


Here's the location map from AULCC. The project is referred to as a hotel/apartment building with a parking garage.


ftp://ftp.ci.austin.tx.us/ATD_AULCC/...202019/190502/


Here's the ground floor from AULCC. It looks like the business on Rainey St. may be incorporated into the project.


ftp://ftp.ci.austin.tx.us/ATD_AULCC/...202019/190502/


The project location on Streetview:

[zrx299]

Taking out another chunk of Rainey and replacing it with a sterile "hotel bar" with hotel bar prices. Craft Pride / Via 313 / Javelina

They just can't leave this damn street alone.

[We vs us]

Originally Posted by zrx299

Taking out another chunk of Rainey and replacing it with a sterile "hotel bar" with hotel bar prices. Craft Pride / Via 313 / Javelina

They just can't leave this damn street alone.

Rainey's on borrowed time as it is, just like the Warehouse District. It's only a matter of how quickly it gets built out.

Not that I'm wishing this on either area, but to me at least, it's clear as a bell -- lots in the CBD (and Rainey) without prior protection (CVC, historic, etc) are destined to be built up. Demand's just too strong.

Regarding this particular tower-to-be . . . I'm really interested to see what their plan for going "above and below the alley" turns out to be. The alley itself is going to become more and more important (and congested) as Rainey and East both get built out. I'd think maintaining throughput would be something the city has a very strong interest in.

[Jdawgboy]

Originally Posted by We vs us

Rainey's on borrowed time as it is, just like the Warehouse District. It's only a matter of how quickly it gets built out.

Not that I'm wishing this on either area, but to me at least, it's clear as a bell -- lots in the CBD (and Rainey) without prior protection (CVC, historic, etc) are destined to be built up. Demand's just too strong.

Regarding this particular tower-to-be . . . I'm really interested to see what their plan for going "above and below the alley" turns out to be. The alley itself is going to become more and more important (and congested) as Rainey and East both get built out. I'd think maintaining throughput would be something the city has a very strong interest in.

My issue is that these developers need to do a whole lot more to incorporate entertainment venues. Downtown Austin is losing it's charm, the very charm that made it popular in the first place. The city should come down hard on any development that is proposed in an area that was or has become an entertainment district so that DT stays a place where people live, work and PLAY...

[The ATX]

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

My issue is that these developers need to do a whole lot more to incorporate entertainment venues. Downtown Austin is losing it's charm, the very charm that made it popular in the first place. The city should come down hard on any development that is proposed in an area that was or has become an entertainment district so that DT stays a place where people live, work and PLAY...

Your sentiment is appreciated. But how would such an ordinance/zoning requirement be worded or implemented?

[zrx299]

Originally Posted by The ATX

Your sentiment is appreciated. But how would such an ordinance/zoning requirement be worded or implemented?

A city that calls itself the "live music capital of the world" and "keep Austin weird" can, and simply must, do much better at managing growth while protecting and cultivating the very things that made it popular to begin with. There are so many surface lots just begging to get redeveloped in the downtown core, but yet it's somehow trendy to just mow down existing structures instead of creating new hot spots from the ground up. (The area all around the ARCH should be booming with cranes, if not for misguided politics)

This particular project's "annexation" to the Rainey St lot(s) is simply unnecessary. The hotel/residential tower can be built on the lot that fronts East street without any need to cross the alley whatsoever.

I'll withhold any further knee-jerk overreaction until we see more mature plans and renderings, and hope for the best with this spot. Something human-scaled along the lines of a Banger's renovation/expansion would be nice.

[ohhey]

It's difficult to make a good argument for protecting buildings like this from demolition on historical and/or architectural grounds, and the mechanisms for granting such protection in Austin are really weak. I anticipate we will continue to see the piecemeal destruction of older, smaller scale areas of central Austin (warehouse district, Rainey, S. Congress, etc.) until they're essentially gone. Expect more parking podiums, corporate architecture, and the occasional overpriced retail/restaurants. Every year it seems like it's getting harder to draw distinctions between Austin and Dallas or Houston.

I guess the market part of this development is a food hall??? At least that's something.

[austlar1]

^^^Yep! People on the Austin forum were so excited when Rainey was zoned CBD 14 years ago, and there was little, if any, support on the local forum for retaining the existing housing stock. I was one of the few people who predicted that the modest bungalows might have a shot as neighborhood amenities like corner stores or a coffee house. I never imagined the explosion of night life on the street. Nobody did. I just hoped a few of the houses might survive in some form in order to give the street a bit of character as it was redeveloped.

[Sigaven]

Funny that everything that is attracting development downtown is being torn apart by more development.

[StoOgE]

Rainey will continue to have bars on it. It will be fine.

The hipsters already moved East 10+ years ago from when Lustre Pearl was the coolest spot in the city. The South Dallas bros who took over can just go back to West 6th or continue chasing the hipsters further East.

There will be bars/restaurants in Rainey, but I am not going to cry for bars that have been there less than a decade.

I am far far more concerned about the warehouse district which has an actual history as an entertainment district and architecturally interesting buildings that are unique to that part of Austin.

Austin is an interesting city, because I imagine for a good 20-30% of people who live here Rainey has *always* been an entertainment district to them.

But cities change and evolve. Austin is a creative city that has an insane nightlife. The market will meet that demand.

[urbancore]

I understand where dawg is coming from, but honestly, the Austin bar/music scene has always moved around...with the "dirty" sixth exception.

Since my freshman year at UT in '87.....the distinct areas I recall are:

-6th (since Pangaea to the "Big Rip") currently called "dirty 6th", but I'll always just call it 6th Street.

-Red River (I'd guess '88 to now- I remember seeing Will and the Kill (Charlie Sexton's brother) play a show in '88 on Red River, maybe RR was going before then

-the warehouse (I remember going to the Boat House in maybe 90's (I had a lot of gay friends, still do) then the Lizard Lounge, the Underground, then Mezzaluna/Cedar Street blew up the whole district.....so late 80's till now)

-W 6th (kinda started with Mother Eagans and Star Bar in 2000 to now)

-SoCo (kicked off with Ego's in the 90's -for me anyway- and really got popping after the wildly popular "First Thursday" got going...with Hotel San Jose and Jos becoming cool hangouts...and of course Continental wasn't alone anymore....still going strong)

-E 6th (If I recall Eastside Showroom was the spot that REALLY kicked the door wide open in 2008 is ongoing and growing like mad)

-Rainey St (Bridget opened up Lustre Pearl in 2009 that started the Rainey Boom- that was really never supposed to happen)

Those are the 7 distinct areas I remember and still frequent them all.

Who knows where the next wave will go, but I see this as a pattern. But again, nobody misses Liberty Lunch more than me....I get it. Then again, I've seen really cool "organic" districts pop over the years. Can't wait to see where the next one will spring up. One big problem of course is the rent is spectacularly high in the new buildings, and it may take a few years for landlords to get the rent right to attract new bars....some will try and most will fail. But supply and demand will settle that at some point. Landlords won't let them all sit empty for too long.

[The ATX]

It's 46 floors with 232 hotel rooms and 209 residential units. Javelina Bar, Craft Pride and Via 313 Pizza will be taken out.

https://abc.austintexas.gov/attachme...73LwhY0Q%3D%3D

[paul78701]

Originally Posted by The ATX

It's 46 floors with 232 hotel rooms and 209 residential units. Javelina Bar, Craft Pride and Via 313 Pizza will be taken out.

https://abc.austintexas.gov/attachme...73LwhY0Q%3D%3D

Via 313 will be fine being that it's a food truck. I hope Craft Pride can manage to find a new location, I do really like that place. Javelina is nice, but it's not all that different than some other places already on Rainey.

[StoOgE]

Originally Posted by urbancore

I understand where dawg is coming from, but honestly, the Austin bar/music scene has always moved around...with the "dirty" sixth exception.

Since my freshman year at UT in '87.....the distinct areas I recall are:

-6th (since Pangaea to the "Big Rip") currently called "dirty 6th", but I'll always just call it 6th Street.

-Red River (I'd guess '88 to now- I remember seeing Will and the Kill (Charlie Sexton's brother) play a show in '88 on Red River, maybe RR was going before then

-the warehouse (I remember going to the Boat House in maybe 90's (I had a lot of gay friends, still do) then the Lizard Lounge, the Underground, then Mezzaluna/Cedar Street blew up the whole district.....so late 80's till now)

-W 6th (kinda started with Mother Eagans and Star Bar in 2000 to now)

-SoCo (kicked off with Ego's in the 90's -for me anyway- and really got popping after the wildly popular "First Thursday" got going...with Hotel San Jose and Jos becoming cool hangouts...and of course Continental wasn't alone anymore....still going strong)

-E 6th (If I recall Eastside Showroom was the spot that REALLY kicked the door wide open in 2008 is ongoing and growing like mad)

-Rainey St (Bridget opened up Lustre Pearl in 2009 that started the Rainey Boom- that was really never supposed to happen)

Those are the 7 distinct areas I remember and still frequent them all.

Who knows where the next wave will go, but I see this as a pattern. But again, nobody misses Liberty Lunch more than me....I get it. Then again, I've seen really cool "organic" districts pop over the years. Can't wait to see where the next one will spring up. One big problem of course is the rent is spectacularly high in the new buildings, and it may take a few years for landlords to get the rent right to attract new bars....some will try and most will fail. But supply and demand will settle that at some point. Landlords won't let them all sit empty for too long.

North Loop has come and gone a few times as well.

Then there is NE Central with Carousel, North Burnet has some spots still, and the far far East (Govalle) is the new hot spot.

I think if you've been in Austin long enough you've come to expect change to be the norm.

[Jdawgboy]

Originally Posted by StoOgE

North Loop has come and gone a few times as well.

Then there is NE Central with Carousel, North Burnet has some spots still, and the far far East (Govalle) is the new hot spot.

I think if you've been in Austin long enough you've come to expect change to be the norm.

What made Austin fairly unique, along with a small group of cities is that our entertainment venues were centralized in the core, not spread out around the city. That is the point I'm trying to make and that we are losing. I don't want to be like most other cities in that respect. It means we've lost an important part of our city's culture.

I'm not saying that there shouldn't be entertainment areas around the city, but SXSW wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Downtown as an entertainment central hub. A centralized heart where people went to have a good time regardless of what part of Austin they live in. I want to be able to go to as many bars and clubs as I can without having to get into a car. That's how it was and granted still is to an extent, but for how long? I have no idea what is up north in terms of hot spots other than the Domain area and not likely to ever check them out because it's too far and not convenient from my perspective. We shouldn't just say well let's just build highrises DT because that is where they belong without making sure we continue to keep and nurture music/entertainment venues DT. I was asked how to implement a requirement a few posts up, I think it was by ATX if I'm not mistaken, well like any ordinance or requirement, have a certain amount of ground or second floor space specific designed for music/entertainment uses. I see a lot of restaurant or retail with projects but unless that includes entertainment venues as part of the definition, then there can only be so much "retail or restaurant" space to the point of oversaturation. It shouldn't be that hard to incorporate a mixture of uses such as music venues into highrise developments.

[enragedcamel]

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

I'm not saying that there shouldn't be entertainment areas around the city, but SXSW wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Downtown as an entertainment central hub. A centralized heart where people went to have a good time regardless of what part of Austin they live in.

Okay, but you realize that with today's insane traffic and horrendously insufficient transport infrastructure, the only thing a centralized entertainment hub does is shut out most of the city's residents from taking advantage of that entertainment, right? You mention SXSW, yet most locals I know avoid Downtown like the plague during SXSW for that very reason!

I mean back in the day you could get from one end of the city to the other in 10-15 minutes. My neighbor, an Austin native, says he used to call Austin a "Twelve Minute Town" for that reason. Today though? Yeah...

[StoOgE]

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

What made Austin fairly unique, along with a small group of cities is that our entertainment venues were centralized in the core, not spread out around the city. That is the point I'm trying to make and that we are losing. I don't want to be like most other cities in that respect. It means we've lost an important part of our city's culture.

I'm not saying that there shouldn't be entertainment areas around the city, but SXSW wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Downtown as an entertainment central hub. A centralized heart where people went to have a good time regardless of what part of Austin they live in. I want to be able to go to as many bars and clubs as I can without having to get into a car. That's how it was and granted still is to an extent, but for how long? I have no idea what is up north in terms of hot spots other than the Domain area and not likely to ever check them out because it's too far and not convenient from my perspective. We shouldn't just say well let's just build highrises DT because that is where they belong without making sure we continue to keep and nurture music/entertainment venues DT. I was asked how to implement a requirement a few posts up, I think it was by ATX if I'm not mistaken, well like any ordinance or requirement, have a certain amount of ground or second floor space specific designed for music/entertainment uses. I see a lot of restaurant or retail with projects but unless that includes entertainment venues as part of the definition, then there can only be so much "retail or restaurant" space to the point of oversaturation. It shouldn't be that hard to incorporate a mixture of uses such as music venues into highrise developments.

But like, the oldest bar being closed here is less than 10 years old

[IluvATX]

Are the only renderings elevations? I think I like this one. Can the mods give it a better name/description?

[The ATX]

Originally Posted by IluvATX

Are the only renderings elevations? I think I like this one. Can the mods give it a better name/description?

There are no renderings yet. The name/description is whatever the developers are calling it - usually from the site plan which is the case on this one.

[We vs us]

Wow. That's a big building. Just a few floors smaller than 44 East.