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  #11581  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2018, 10:16 PM
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Fischbob Fischbob is offline
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One of the big reasons I opted to keep the Millidgeville-North route as a single entity (and also opted to have it terminate Uptown) was so that the route would have "anchors" (or large trip generators) at both ends. Although that does create some duplication going into the Uptown, the Somerset routing I presented would mitigate this somewhat.

Another advantage of having one route for both neighbourhoods is that, in the distant future, it could potentially serve a corridor through the eventually-developed area above Forbes Drive and Cambridge Estates instead of duplicating service on Millidge Avenue. I've sketched below some of what I'd personally like to see there - a new urbanist-style community near Robertson Lake that orients itself strongly to the transit corridor - although I think this kind of development isn't really on the radar of the landowners in the area.



To speak directly to your proposed routes, I commend you for serving both grocery stores with your North End routing (I've been scratching my head on how to effectively serve the Superstore/ANBL in a reconfigured transit network), but I don't particularly like the one-way loop you have for much of the alignment. One-way loops are good for "casting the net wide" with lower-density feeder routes, but aren't great at driving up ridership between the midpoints of the line. I'd really like to see a frequent, two-way routing through the Adelaide/Main/Bridge core of the Old North End.

On the Millidgeville route options, I definitely prefer the one that doesn't run the length of Kennebecasis, and in fact I would even bring the turnaround point to Meadowbank rather than Crown Hill as the number of houses within a few hundred meters really drops off as you move past the Millidge/Kennebecasis intersection.

As you can probably tell, I tend to lean toward the ridership-maximizing side of the ridership-coverage tradeoff when it comes to transit planning, which is largely underpinning my critiques here.
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  #11582  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2018, 10:33 PM
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So as 2018 winds down, let's reflect a bit on the past year of urban development news and activity in SJ. I found this video, which offers one person's take on what the 10 biggest stories were:

Video Link


I would add the Central Peninsula Neighbourhood Plan to the above list. While it won't be finalized and implemented until next year, there was a lot of stakeholder engagement and the charting of catalytic "big moves" and implementation priorities that made it into the draft plan to guide the growth and development of the Peninsula. As my last few posts also suggest, I'm looking forward to starting the neighbourhood planning process for the North End.

I remain encouraged by the overall direction and momentum we've been seeing in the Uptown area - having the Parrtown Place and former Salvation Army apartments come online (as well as other renovations/restorations) are more pieces of the puzzle in terms of adding residential density. The IOL headquarters has also filled in a major gap on King's Square and added nicely to the skyline.

I am a little frustrated at the slow/nonexistent pace of certain major projects, including 91 King, the Union/Wellington development, and of course the now-in-limbo Museum project on the Coast Guard site. There are other seemingly stalled proposals I could bring up as well, but if anything 11+ years in this subforum has taught me, it's patience. Let's hope to see progress on these files in the new year.
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  #11583  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2018, 11:19 PM
Wolkenkratzerliebhab Wolkenkratzerliebhab is offline
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According to the TJ, Saturday, December 29 edition, Premier Higgs, after speaking directly with the CEO of Trans Canada Pipelines, now says the company is now interested in going ahead with Energy East, providing that the company can get provincial support which he has with the exception of Quebec. Hopefully, after Trudeau is gone, next year we might see actually some movement on this project; at least I hope so?
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  #11584  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2018, 12:19 AM
JakeNB JakeNB is offline
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Pipeline

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolkenkratzerliebhab View Post
According to the TJ, Saturday, December 29 edition, Premier Higgs, after speaking directly with the CEO of Trans Canada Pipelines, now says the company is now interested in going ahead with Energy East, providing that the company can get provincial support which he has with the exception of Quebec. Hopefully, after Trudeau is gone, next year we might see actually some movement on this project; at least I hope so?
I thought this was a non-partisan forum. Howver, now that the issue has been raised, how do you think Andrew Sheer would improve our lot here in NB? The pipeline would add few jobs here, add environmental risk, and delay progress toward a lower carbon economy. Irving could refine Canadian oil (from NL) if they wanted, but it would be more difficult for them to generate the profits tax free in Barbados.
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  #11585  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2018, 3:26 AM
RR Drummer RR Drummer is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeNB View Post
I thought this was a non-partisan forum. Howver, now that the issue has been raised, how do you think Andrew Sheer would improve our lot here in NB? The pipeline would add few jobs here, add environmental risk, and delay progress toward a lower carbon economy. Irving could refine Canadian oil (from NL) if they wanted, but it would be more difficult for them to generate the profits tax free in Barbados.
I am entitled to my opinion, however I do reserve the right to be wrong. I extend the same courtesy to everyone else.
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  #11586  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2018, 3:30 PM
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A pipeline isn't going to provide the long-term economic benefits that are being purported. It's another temporary boost to a specific industry before things go back to normal again.

As i've said before on this forum: NB would be better served diversifying its economy rather than hedging more of its bets on single project natural resources which are not trending in the right direction.
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  #11587  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2018, 3:35 PM
NB_ExistsToo NB_ExistsToo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeNB View Post
I thought this was a non-partisan forum. Howver, now that the issue has been raised, how do you think Andrew Sheer would improve our lot here in NB? The pipeline would add few jobs here, add environmental risk, and delay progress toward a lower carbon economy. Irving could refine Canadian oil (from NL) if they wanted, but it would be more difficult for them to generate the profits tax free in Barbados.
I think it's a pipe-dream (haha!) to expect Sheer to beat out Trudeau as early as next year, if at all. Unless there's some major missteps by the Fed's in 2019.

But to think adding Energy East Pipeline wouldn't be beneficial to Saint John is ludicrous. They would require a brand new Upgrader facility (+$50M) to be constructed and able to handle the bitumen in large quantities. That Upgrader would have full time staff, maintenance, equipment repair, etc. Sure, the biggest benefactor would be Irving Oil, but there would be significant amount of economic influx into the city.

I'm not even a fan of Higgs, but if he can manage to get the Energy East Pipeline up again, he would certainly have my support for the foreseeable future.
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  #11588  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2018, 3:40 PM
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Originally Posted by NB_ExistsToo View Post
I'm not even a fan of Higgs, but if he can manage to get the Energy East Pipeline up again, he would certainly have my support for the foreseeable future.
Support from an NB premier was not EE's problem. Gallant supported EE as well.

All of the hurdles are literally between Saskatchewan and NB.
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  #11589  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2018, 3:59 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
Support from an NB premier was not EE's problem. Gallant supported EE as well.

All of the hurdles are literally between Saskatchewan and NB.
Agree, although I think Higgs would be a more enthusiastic supporter of EE than Gallant.

I support EE, but mostly because I think it is ludicrous that in a country like Canada, with one of the largest proven oil reserves in the world, that a significant portion of the country is still reliant on oil imports. It would be far far better for us to have a secure domestic supply available to the entire country.

Having said this, the long term benefits of EE in terms of boosting local employment are quite modest at best. EE should be supported for strategic reasons alone.

In the meantime, we should continue to develop our low carbon economy to prepare ourselves for the future, and the province should continue to diversify away from resource extraction and heavy industry. Freddy & Moncton have been doing this for some time. I respect the heavy industries in SJ, but that city should do the same..........
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  #11590  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2018, 4:44 PM
JakeNB JakeNB is offline
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Originally Posted by NB_ExistsToo View Post

But to think adding Energy East Pipeline wouldn't be beneficial to Saint John is ludicrous. They would require a brand new Upgrader facility (+$50M) to be constructed and able to handle the bitumen in large quantities. That Upgrader would have full time staff, maintenance, equipment repair, etc. Sure, the biggest benefactor would be Irving Oil, but there would be significant amount of economic influx into the city.
Irving has never committed to using any product from EE - in fact they said the opposite. Irving have never said that they would construct an upgrader. EE is strictly an export pipeline.
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  #11591  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2018, 5:42 PM
NB_ExistsToo NB_ExistsToo is offline
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Originally Posted by JakeNB View Post
Irving has never committed to using any product from EE - in fact they said the opposite. Irving have never said that they would construct an upgrader. EE is strictly an export pipeline.
Ah, I always thought that they had(propaganda I assume). Looks like it was just committing money to Export Terminals.

Everyone can support EE, but how people use influence and means to push things are are different. So Higgs could potentially be more focused on EE compared to Gallant, I don't know if he is as he could just be saying this to gain public approval.

Either way, I don't have much hope for it ever going through, so it's likely just an exercise at this point.
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  #11592  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2018, 6:44 PM
cdnguys cdnguys is offline
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Just an observation - but there are a lot of local jobs associated with railing in oil from Alberta. Those jobs would be lost (I heard it’s 200) - the jobs benefit would be the construction projects
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  #11593  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2018, 9:40 PM
Wolkenkratzerliebhab Wolkenkratzerliebhab is offline
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Almost two years ago, but I could be wrong, I read an article in the Globe & Mail that stated that several economic studies highlighted that the pipeline project could increase the greater Saint John population to 140,000, but if if fell through the population could be expected to drop to 105,000! After all, growth begets growth! The former CEO of Irving said that, more than anything, the extra oil would make the second refinery economical viable, plus increase the chances of the city developing a great retro-industry with the manufacture of plastics, etc. Even if the impact was small, the benefits to the city are better than no benefits at all so I'm wishing that things will work out and EE comes to past.
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  #11594  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2018, 9:47 PM
JakeNB JakeNB is offline
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Here is the article where IOL said that they would continue to use Saudi oil. https://www.google.ca/amp/s/business...goes-ahead/amp
Still doesn’t address why they don’t use Canadian oil from Newfoundland.
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  #11595  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2019, 8:31 AM
Scarface Scarface is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolkenkratzerliebhab View Post
Almost two years ago, but I could be wrong, I read an article in the Globe & Mail that stated that several economic studies highlighted that the pipeline project could increase the greater Saint John population to 140,000, but if if fell through the population could be expected to drop to 105,000! After all, growth begets growth! The former CEO of Irving said that, more than anything, the extra oil would make the second refinery economical viable, plus increase the chances of the city developing a great retro-industry with the manufacture of plastics, etc. Even if the impact was small, the benefits to the city are better than no benefits at all so I'm wishing that things will work out and EE comes to past.
Is this the same former CEO of Irving who stated that if Irving left Canada places like Saint john would end up looking like a 3rd world nation?
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  #11596  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2019, 3:35 PM
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Helladog Helladog is offline
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I used to be in favour of EE, but this many years later I’ve changed my tune. In twenty years there won’t be much need for it.
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  #11597  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2019, 8:14 PM
Wolkenkratzerliebhab Wolkenkratzerliebhab is offline
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Originally Posted by Helladog View Post
I used to be in favour of EE, but this many years later I’ve changed my tune. In twenty years there won’t be much need for it.
Unfortunately, in twenty-years there will be a lot more vehicles on the road, and they're going to run on gas for another 20-years; 20-years is not enough time to switch over so I'm still supporting the pipeline. If EE was not viable Trans Canada wouldn't consider it or any other pipeline. I'm crossing my fingers!
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  #11598  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2019, 10:53 PM
RR Drummer RR Drummer is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolkenkratzerliebhab View Post
Unfortunately, in twenty-years there will be a lot more vehicles on the road, and they're going to run on gas for another 20-years; 20-years is not enough time to switch over so I'm still supporting the pipeline. If EE was not viable Trans Canada wouldn't consider it or any other pipeline. I'm crossing my fingers!
Truly hard to predict but I believe you are correct sir.
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  #11599  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2019, 11:05 PM
mark smith mark smith is offline
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pipeline

I dont understand why anyone would support the pipeline? Other then the few temporary jobs it will supply ,what other reason would u want it? ONlY IRVING and the other big shots will gain from this. I am puzzled. I am from ontario and nobody would want this going through their city.
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  #11600  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2019, 11:34 PM
thefishingnut thefishingnut is offline
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Originally Posted by Helladog View Post
I used to be in favour of EE, but this many years later I’ve changed my tune. In twenty years there won’t be much need for it.
Agree with you about fuel for transportation. But that electric car of the future is made up of a pile of plastic (including the battery containers!), on tires of rubber, running on asphalt, lubricated by oil. Until another material comes along to replace plastic, rubber, etc., there is going to be a need for oil based industry, and I think that is going to be for quite some time.
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