PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread - Page 495

jsbrook · #**9881** Posted **Mar 9, 2018, 3:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Groundhog

As for comparisons, let's stop with saying we can build something urban like Fenway, Wrigley or MSG. We can't replicate that without 100 years of organic neighborhood growth around the stadium (maybe we could do that in South Philly by 2118?) and we're not NYC. For a basketball/hockey arena, our comps are TD Bank in Boston and Verizon Center in DC, maybe the Dunk in Providence? None of those creates any sort of gameday atmosphere. I'm sure they do well, but we'd be losing something if the arena went elsewhere.

Wrigley creates a gameday atmosphere. MSG does not, and frankly, I don't think any urban basketball arena anywhere would. I think the question is more the convenience factor and whether this can be done without substantial disruption to the neighborhood.

Londonee · #**9882** Posted **Mar 9, 2018, 3:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsarstruck

Nothing about the Barclay Boondoggle is something we aspire to.

I'd love to hear your take on this, but I visited some friends in Park Slope and we walked to Barclays, and it was awesome. It's, like, in a neighborhood.

McBane · #**9883** Posted **Mar 9, 2018, 4:04 PM**

^ But how can you build an integrated stadium/arena when the immediate neighbors don't want anything to do with such a concept? You can't ask for a more integrated stadium than what Temple is proposing - and look at how poorly that's been received by the neighborhood.

Combine that with a lazy City Council that always defers planning to neighborhood groups and it seems highly unlikely that we could ever put a stadium or arena INSIDE a neighborhood. Oh and you want to tell the neighbors that there will be limited parking b/c you expect everyone to walk or take Septa? Eyes rolling.

With all that said, it is fun to imagine if Shibe/Connie Mack Stadium had never been demolished. I guess since the neighborhood went to shit, much of it would have been demo'd to make way for parking lots. But if the neighborhood remained stable....

blorkishdork · #**9884** Posted **Mar 9, 2018, 4:30 PM**

That is an interesting thought with Shibe Park/Connie Mack. I guess I'd like to think the neighborhood would not have declined quite so badly due to the proximity to the jobs it creates, which isn't a whole lot, but still not zero.

City Wide · #**9885** Posted **Mar 9, 2018, 4:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidphilly

this may be a dumb question, but I believe the galleria was build with the intent to support additional structures, could the galleria hold a stadium above it from 11th to 9th?

MSG is probably 3 or 4 stories above grade at the arena ground floor level, already parking and obviously transit and would not erode the street atmosphere. And with the convention center basically attached could be an attractive attachment for conventions

The market facing side could have an open concourse of glass and restaurants/bars, even active lighting as the trend seems that way there

Very doubtful that your idea would be workable. The site was built with towers in mind for the future. An arena would have a bigger footprint, plus since an arena needs a clear span ceiling/roof the structural load would be carried on the edge, and there's no way that was considered when the gallery was built. Anything is possible, but this ain't going to be.

jsbrook · #**9886** Posted **Mar 9, 2018, 5:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by City Wide

Very doubtful that your idea would be workable. The site was built with towers in mind for the future. An arena would have a bigger footprint, plus since an arena needs a clear span ceiling/roof the structural load would be carried on the edge, and there's no way that was considered when the gallery was built. Anything is possible, but this ain't going to be.

Also, the center building where HealthPartners is headquartered was not built to accommodate additional structures on top. The buildings on either side are, but not enough space for a stadium.

jsbrook · #**9887** Posted **Mar 9, 2018, 5:27 PM**

The neighborhood's gripes are entirely valid. It will not be good for current residents. In fact, I am sure the areas in the immediate vicinity will turn into student housing/party housing. Otherwise, I don't believe Temple is going to be successful with this. Temple is hoping that the stadium will help it transform into a big campus, big football school with that atmosphere and what it entails. I went to U of M for law school and love football. I get it. But I don't see it happening here. If it does, it will be at the expense of the current residents. Let's not pretend otherwise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by McBane

^ But how can you build an integrated stadium/arena when the immediate neighbors don't want anything to do with such a concept? You can't ask for a more integrated stadium than what Temple is proposing - and look at how poorly that's been received by the neighborhood.

Combine that with a lazy City Council that always defers planning to neighborhood groups and it seems highly unlikely that we could ever put a stadium or arena INSIDE a neighborhood. Oh and you want to tell the neighbors that there will be limited parking b/c you expect everyone to walk or take Septa? Eyes rolling.

With all that said, it is fun to imagine if Shibe/Connie Mack Stadium had never been demolished. I guess since the neighborhood went to shit, much of it would have been demo'd to make way for parking lots. But if the neighborhood remained stable....

McBane · #**9888** Posted **Mar 9, 2018, 5:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsbrook

The neighborhood's gripes are entirely valid. It will not be good for current residents. In fact, I am sure the areas in the immediate vicinity will turn into student housing/party housing. Otherwise, I don't believe Temple is going to be successful with this. Temple is hoping that the stadium will help it transform into a big campus, big football school with that atmosphere and what it entails. I went to U of M for law school and love football. I get it. But I don't see it happening here. If it does, it will be at the expense of the current residents. Let's not pretend otherwise.

I'm not passing judgement or advocating one stance over another. I'm just demonstrating that any attempt to build a stadium or arena WITHIN a neighborhood, in an effort to create something akin to Wrigley or the soccer stadiums in London, would be met with intense opposition; and specifically, neighbors will fight all the very things that are needed to make an integrated arena/stadium successful (e.g., limited parking). The Temple football stadium is just an example of how such a scenario would play out.

jsbrook · #**9889** Posted **Mar 9, 2018, 6:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by McBane

I'm not passing judgement or advocating one stance over another. I'm just demonstrating that any attempt to build a stadium or arena WITHIN a neighborhood, in an effort to create something akin to Wrigley or the soccer stadiums in London, would be met with intense opposition; and specifically, neighbors will fight all the very things that are needed to make an integrated arena/stadium successful (e.g., limited parking). The Temple football stadium is just an example of how such a scenario would play out.

Agree on that at this stage. The area around Ann Arbor's stadium was farmland when it was built, and people who moved around it knew what they'd be getting into and were ok with it. I'm not as sure what the area around Wrigley Field was like when it was built in the early 1900s, but I can't think of many, probably any, existing neighborhoods in Philly that would welcome a stadium.

Kidphilly · #**9890** Posted **Mar 9, 2018, 6:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsbrook

Also, the center building where HealthPartners is headquartered was not built to accommodate additional structures on top. The buildings on either side are, but not enough space for a stadium.

I measured the space from 9th to 11th (longer than the current WFC) and from Market to the next street is about 10ish feet wider than the short width of the WFS

also they could build two arches from 10 to 11 and 9 to 10 to support (light even be an improvement for the façade (ha)

AbortedWalrus · #**9891** Posted **Mar 9, 2018, 8:09 PM**

I really wish some brave businesses would take the first steps onto Ridge Ave in Francisville. It blows my mind that none of the dozens of brand new commercial storefronts are occupied at this point. The customer base is there, the commercial availability is there, and I have to assume rents are pretty low due to all of the vacancy. It seems like one or two places opening would be the tipping point for a vast influx of business on the corridor.

Here's hoping. The 1500/1600 blocks are almost completely redeveloped now. Maybe once the fencing comes down and it's easier to walk people will start opening businesses. I know the Honest Tom's Tacos guys got a liquor license on Ridge, I hope they actually open a spot.

jsbrook · #**9892** Posted **Mar 9, 2018, 8:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidphilly

I measured the space from 9th to 11th (longer than the current WFC) and from Market to the next street is about 10ish feet wider than the short width of the WFS

also they could build two arches from 10 to 11 and 9 to 10 to support (light even be an improvement for the façade (ha)

Per my other post, the 900 block of Market is out. https://www.google.com/maps/place/10...!4d-75.1570051 The building pictured cannot handle anything built on top. The buildings on either side of it can support towers or (I suppose) stadium on top of the structure.

PhillyEngineer · #**9893** Posted **Mar 11, 2018, 1:07 AM**

I am a long time reader of the forum. This is my first post. Here are some pictures of the construction of the Fashion District Philadelphia taken on 3/9:

Jayfar · #**9894** Posted **Mar 11, 2018, 3:16 AM**

FYI, at 2400 Market/Aramark they were taking down the tower crane today. When I went by around 5ish, Market was closed at 23rd and the boom had already been removed.

Groundhog · #**9895** Posted **Mar 12, 2018, 3:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhillyEngineer

I am a long time reader of the forum. This is my first post. Here are some pictures of the construction of the Fashion District Philadelphia taken on 3/9:

Welcome to the forum! Thanks for these, I don't think we'd gotten any updates on the Fashion Districts in a while, much appreciated!

iheartphilly · #**9896** Posted **Mar 12, 2018, 3:20 PM**

The use of brick here is a big improvement to what's above. I don't remember it from the renders. Anyone know?

Philly Fan · #**9897** Posted **Mar 12, 2018, 4:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

The use of brick here is a big improvement to what's above. I don't remember it from the renders. Anyone know?

Yep, it's in some of the renderings:

http://www.fashiondistrictphiladelph...progressphotos

iheartphilly · #**9898** Posted **Mar 12, 2018, 4:56 PM**

^
That's it. Thanks, Philly Fan!

Noam215 · #**9899** Posted **Mar 12, 2018, 5:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philly Fan

Yep, it's in some of the renderings:

http://www.fashiondistrictphiladelph...progressphotos

Agreed the brick looks good.
Really wish they had opened up the second floor as well, like in the renders. What do we think - unlikely to happen at this point right?

City Wide · #**9900** Posted **Mar 12, 2018, 5:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noam215

Agreed the brick looks good.
Really wish they had opened up the second floor as well, like in the renders. What do we think - unlikely to happen at this point right?

And lose rentable space just so there can be some balconies that most likely would rarely get used? I say doubtful.
This is a good example where I think a drawing was done showing one thing when there was little to no chance of it actually being built. But the drawing showing never never land is sexier so that's what gets presented to the public.