Why is Miami so underrated for its urbanity?

[destroycreate]

I can't believe it took me 33 years to visit Miami, and now here I am.

I've been super impressed by how relatively dense, walkable, and urban so much of the city is. I'm equally impressed by how many highrises and commercial town centers there are scattered around the metro.

A few other wins--at least in the areas that I've seen--it is infinitely cleaner than any of the major California cities. No wackos swinging crowbars or shooting up in broad daylight, no visible tent cities (at least in the popular areas), and the sidewalks are 100x more trash-free compared to LA. I also love, at least in Miami Beach, how there is so much pedestrian-friendly boardwalks/pathways/parks etc. It makes me realize how such this is lacking in LA.

By and large, I'm a big fan of this place and it's much less honky-tonk/tacky than I was expecting it to be. Is it just me or is Miami underrated for its overall urban experience?

[iheartthed]

Sounds like you haven't explored much outside of Miami Beach.

[jd3189]

Even outside South Beach, Miami’s urban density is comparable to most of LA outside of the West Side. It sprawls, but it’s very dense sprawl on a grid that covers a good amount of Dave County. And then you have all the smaller town centers up the coast from Coconut Grove to Riviera Beach in Palm Beach County.

Nothing quite like it in the South from what I have seen.

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by destroycreate

By and large, I'm a big fan of this place and it's much less honky-tonk/tacky than I was expecting it to be. Is it just me or is Miami underrated for its overall urban experience?

Trust me, having lived for 2 decades in South Florida, Miami is overrated for its urbanity.

I suppose if your metric is rush hour LA, then Miami has the appearance of urbanity especially to a tourist. Try to get a job or go to school in the city without a millionaire income to afford Miami Beach, and the metro will disabuse you of any walkable notions.

The single rapid transit line that crosses the metro is the extent of urbanity. Most jobs in the region don’t follow it, (In fact it’s probably the most sprawling, car dependent job market in the country. No joke.) Beyond that is surburbia and big box stores as far as the eye can see. Giant homes with large fertilized lawns slashing deep into the Everglades.

Try to get to Doral where the industrial parks and commerce center are using transit. You can’t.

[Djesus777]

Originally Posted by destroycreate

I can't believe it took me 33 years to visit Miami, and now here I am.

I've been super impressed by how relatively dense, walkable, and urban so much of the city is. I'm equally impressed by how many highrises and commercial town centers there are scattered around the metro.

A few other wins--at least in the areas that I've seen--it is infinitely cleaner than any of the major California cities. No wackos swinging crowbars or shooting up in broad daylight, no visible tent cities (at least in the popular areas), and the sidewalks are 100x more trash-free compared to LA. I also love, at least in Miami Beach, how there is so much pedestrian-friendly boardwalks/pathways/parks etc. It makes me realize how such this is lacking in LA.

By and large, I'm a big fan of this place and it's much less honky-tonk/tacky than I was expecting it to be. Is it just me or is Miami underrated for its overall urban experience?

Yeah... Miami is overrated as hell for it's urbanity (lived there for decades). Yes, shooting up in broad daylight does happen, and there are some tent cities as well. But comparing only Miami Beach to LA is a huge stretch, considering outside core areas, the density is similar to LA (as others pointed out). The city is not the most pedestrian friendly, transit coverage is horrible and even vibrancy overall outside a handful or areas is average.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by galleyfox

Trust me, having lived for 2 decades in South Florida, Miami is overrated for its urbanity.

That's my impression too.

Outside of a few blocks of South Beach, where does South Florida have quality urbanity? Downtown Miami is a mess of gigantic parking garage podiums. Most of the waterfront condo clusters have zero urban context. There are no real prewar walkable neighborhoods. The one rail line has ridership comparable to a bus line.

In contrast, LA has a shit-ton of walkable, if somewhat flawed, older neighborhoods. Also pretty good transit and improving urban form.

[pj3000]

I think you’ve been sampling some of Miami’s finest cocaine.

[dc_denizen]

Miami Beach is nice though . What if you consider mb the true downtown ?

[bossabreezes]

Arguably, Miami has the best urbanity of all Sunbelt cities, aside from California cities that some consider the Sunbelt. Personally, I don't consider CA to be sunbelt though.

It's far from perfect, but if you compare it to other Sunbelt cities like Phoenix or Atlanta, it's not even close to being at that level of anti-urbanity. It is a very dense metro region, with significant challenges to face, however, it's transformation over the past decade is pretty astounding. Since there is no more land to build outwards, we will continue to see it's further urban transformation.

I don't expect Manhattan style neighborhoods to pop up anywhere, but I do think we'll see further consolidation of current nodes. Hopefully transportation can be resolved, because truthfully, Miami has the worst traffic and worst drivers I've seen anywhere in the US and Brazil.

[pj3000]

^ Miami is highly-dense “suburbanity”.

I agree with what you’re saying about it’s momentum towards increasing urban nodes. Miami is a very young city, and it’s been very interesting for me to watch it change in the past 20+ years.

Still, I would not say that Miami has the “best urbanity” in the sunbelt. The varying definitions of ‘urbanity’ and ‘sunbelt’ will have much to do with what city is “best”.

[jd3189]

Well, if Miami/ South Florida doesn’t have the best urban layout in the Sunbelt, which city/ metro does?

I guess one could mention New Orleans, Savannah, and Charleston, but those places mainly have a dense core and sprawled out surroundings that are no different from Atlanta, Houston, Dallas, Charlotte, Orlando, Jacksonville, Nashville, etc.

[Omaharocks]

Originally Posted by jd3189

Well, if Miami/ South Florida doesn’t have the best urban layout in the Sunbelt, which city/ metro does?

I guess one could mention New Orleans, Savannah, and Charleston, but those places mainly have a dense core and sprawled out surroundings that are no different from Atlanta, Houston, Dallas, Charlotte, Orlando, Jacksonville, Nashville, etc.

Well, if you're talking pound for pound, then yes, New Orleans, Savannah, and Charleston probably have the best urbanity. Savannah and New Orleans don't actually have much sprawl relative the quality of their urban cores, but Savannah in particular is small.

As far as Miami vs somewhere like Atlanta, it just depends on how you feel about continuous grid with more potential for walkability in suburbia like you'd find in Miami, vs. a higher quality of pre-WWII urban core neighborhoods in Atlanta.

Neither has a fantastic transit system, at least compared to the NE cities, but Atlanta is a bit ahead of Miami.

I always find it odd when people say "like an Atlanta or Phoenix"...as though those two cities are at all similar. Phoenix is very much like Miami in layout, just without any of the demand for high rise living. And Miami has the advantage of having more retail strips with the stores fronting the street, similar to L.A. But, Miami is much more similar to Phoenix than Miami is to Atlanta.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by destroycreate

I can't believe it took me 33 years to visit Miami, and now here I am.

I've been super impressed by how relatively dense, walkable, and urban so much of the city is. I'm equally impressed by how many highrises and commercial town centers there are scattered around the metro.

A few other wins--at least in the areas that I've seen--it is infinitely cleaner than any of the major California cities. No wackos swinging crowbars or shooting up in broad daylight, no visible tent cities (at least in the popular areas), and the sidewalks are 100x more trash-free compared to LA. I also love, at least in Miami Beach, how there is so much pedestrian-friendly boardwalks/pathways/parks etc. It makes me realize how such this is lacking in LA.

By and large, I'm a big fan of this place and it's much less honky-tonk/tacky than I was expecting it to be. Is it just me or is Miami underrated for its overall urban experience?

Highrises don't mean urban.
La County beaches are nothing but boardwalks, bike paths and parks .
Same for oc
What are you even saying? There's people everywhere in LA metro beachfront. It's a huge plus.

I haven't been to Miami but it doesn't look walkable on Google maps and videos really. Downtown Miami doesn't look Pedestrian friendly, even compared to long Beach.

Also i have to laugh at your whacko comments. That's not a common thing.. it happens, but let's get real.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by jd3189

Even outside South Beach, Miami’s urban density is comparable to most of LA outside of the West Side. It sprawls, but it’s very dense sprawl on a grid that covers a good amount of Dave County. And then you have all the smaller town centers up the coast from Coconut Grove to Riviera Beach in Palm Beach County.

Nothing quite like it in the South from what I have seen.

It looks more similar to the valley with some extra highrises. I don't see much in common with older LA.

[homebucket]

I don't think it's underrated. It's rated exactly where it should be. Squarely in the 3rd tier behind NYC which is in its own tier and the other big urban cities (Chicago, Philly, Boston, etc) in the 2nd tier.

[eschaton]

In a lot of way, I feel like Miami is like a smaller twin of LA in terms of urbanity. Similarities include.

1. The basic street typology is a well-developed grid with overly-wide main streets.

2. The most common vernacular is "dense suburban" - small lots with single family, usually single-story homes,

3. Commercial thoroughfares are often densely packed in terms of amenities, but really poor on the mixed-uses. Both are getting better, but it's rare to see the classic urban format of 2-4 stories of apartments over a storefront, with single-story commercial (or even worse, strip malls) very common even in core urban zones.

4. In both cases you can end up with neighborhoods which have incredibly high walkscores (up to 90%) but absolutely awful pedestrian infrastructure if you drop a pin in those zones on Google street view.

5. Both cities tend to still have their urban cores mostly depopulated or lower income areas (Brickell being the exception in Miami, but it's a pretty unique neighborhood).

6. In both cities the business districts with the best traditional urban form are located outside of the core city (South Beach for Miami, and Santa Monica for LA).

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by eschaton

In a lot of way, I feel like Miami is like a smaller twin of LA in terms of urbanity. Similarities include.

1. The basic street typology is a well-developed grid with overly-wide main streets.

2. The most common vernacular is "dense suburban" - small lots with single family, usually single-story homes,

3. Commercial thoroughfares are often densely packed in terms of amenities, but really poor on the mixed-uses. Both are getting better, but it's rare to see the classic urban format of 2-4 stories of apartments over a storefront, with single-story commercial (or even worse, strip malls) very common even in core urban zones.

4. In both cases you can end up with neighborhoods which have incredibly high walkscores (up to 90%) but absolutely awful pedestrian infrastructure if you drop a pin in those zones on Google street view.

5. Both cities tend to still have their urban cores mostly depopulated or lower income areas (Brickell being the exception in Miami, but it's a pretty unique neighborhood).

6. In both cities the business districts with the best traditional urban form are located outside of the core city (South Beach for Miami, and Santa Monica for LA).

I wouldn't say those mixed use buildings are rare in LA anymore.
Miami commercial streets resemble suburban la, not the pre war stuff.

Downtown LA Is still more traditional urban.thsn it's nodes.
It's just not the most desirable.

[dc_denizen]

core LA (LA county basically) and Miami have little in common

westside is huge and urban, miami has nothing like this

this whole area west of downtown is basically unremarkable , small stucco SFH with crappy sidewalk infrastructure and car-oriented arterials. and outside Coral Gables, no midrises

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Mi...!4d-80.1917902

contrast with this (LA westside)

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lo...4d-118.2436849

multiple walkable commercial streets, SFH, tons of midrises

[LA21st]

Only Venice Beach is sketchy.for la beach towns and it's not the entire neighborhood. It's always been that way, it's just more homeless.

But

Marina del rey/Washington Ave/canals/abbott kiney/south of the Venice pier area perfectly fine and clean.
You're being disingenuous

I've spent a considerable amount of time in these areas during covid, including the south bay.

[SIGSEGV]

Miami Beach is nice. Brickell is ok, although the transition from SFH to high-rises feels weird. The second best urbanity in South Florida after Miami Beach is Key West