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View Poll Results: Which transbay tower design scheme do you like best?
#1 Richard Rogers 39 7.88%
#2 Cesar Pelli 98 19.80%
#3 SOM 358 72.32%
Voters: 495. You may not vote on this poll

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  #281  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2007, 2:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mthd View Post
there may be reasons to dislike st regis, but 'blandness' is not one.


My last trip to SF, I really took a liking to this building. I wound up driving around the surrounding area looking at different views of it, and really think it is something different and unique.

Similar to how I feel about Penn Plaza project in NYC, sight unseen of the proposals, I would love to see a really stand out Pelli skyscraper here. I think he has it in him to harness what SF is and place that idea in a unique iconic building the Transbay project deserves to have.
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  #282  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2007, 6:46 AM
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Originally Posted by mthd View Post
do you really think this is a mediocre building? :

Compared to this building from 4 decades ago, yes I do:

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  #283  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2007, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by BTinSF View Post
Compared to this building from 4 decades ago, yes I do:

IMO I dont like this 40-year-old building you present at all, especially the control tower, which looks like an odd japanese pagoda.

I like the current terminal at SFIA better, but that's only my opinion.
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  #284  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2007, 11:25 PM
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^^^The fact that right here we can get such disagreement explains, in microcosm, why SF has such mediocre architecture. Put us all in a room and try to arrive at a design none of us hate too much and you will end up with what SF has. If we want a great TransBay terminal and tower, they need to tell us all to shut up and let the architect (even SOM but I hope it isn't them) build it the way they want. John King probably won't like it and lots of people will complain, but in 30 years it will be seen as a great building.

By the way, since you gave no indication you recognized it, that airport building I posted is Dulles International, Washington's main airport. Designed by Finnish starchitect Eero Saarinen, it was build on farmland so far from downtown most locals (of which I was then one) thought nobody would use it. Now, of course, the beauty of the building is recognized by nearly everyone (with a few exceptions ) and Washington's transit system and expanding urban area has made it quite useable. My point here is just that the average person--given far to much say about development in SF--pretty much lacks vision.
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  #285  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2007, 1:28 AM
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Subjectivity. Would you really want it any other way?
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  #286  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2007, 3:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
Subjectivity. Would you really want it any other way?
architecture may be subjective, but to suggest that SFIA is a 'mediocre' building, or that st regis is 'bland' stretches the boundaries of credibility.

word has it that foster himself didn't even show up for the interview... which i can't believe is true, but jeff heller was DEFINITELY there.
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  #287  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2007, 5:25 AM
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SFO, the International Terminal is easily the best, modern airport in the USA, and competes well with its Asian counterparts. But that goes not just for design, but function, Dulles, with those bus things you have to ride, really sucks, to be blunt. SFO, coming and going international, is much smoother, there are great restaurants, that little museum, and so on. I would take SFO, as a traveler, over Dulles any day.
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  #288  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2007, 6:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mthd View Post
architecture may be subjective, but to suggest that SFIA is a 'mediocre' building, or that st regis is 'bland' stretches the boundaries of credibility.
We must agree to disagree. I very much dislike the St. Regis. SFIA is OK, but it doesn't excite me. That's the way I feel about a lot of SOM buildings. They are OK, not exciting.
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  #289  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2007, 6:28 AM
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I like SFO's International Terminal because it functions well. When I must spend any significant amount of time in an airport, I want it to be as comfortable, interesting, and amenity-rich as possible--I don't want to be excited any further. Unless, of course, I'm at the Las Vegas airport, which absolutely rocks.
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  #290  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2007, 6:31 AM
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Originally Posted by WonderlandPark View Post
SFO, the International Terminal is easily the best, modern airport in the USA
I'd have to agree. That building is how modernism is supposed to look and work.
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  #291  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2007, 6:36 AM
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One thing to consider is that building had a daunting job to do (as in, it had a big job to do without a lot of space to work with, lots of requirements, but still had to function perfectly) - and thankfully it looks good while doing it.
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  #292  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2007, 12:58 AM
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I love the St Regis, it's probably one of my favorite in the city especially, the crown. we need more crowns to cap the building. too many flat tops.
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  #293  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2007, 1:13 AM
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^^^I agree with that, twinpeaks, but I prefer the type that doesn't look so much like what they obviously are: just a screen to block the view of HVAC equipment. Compare the crown of a traditional skyscraper (like everybody's favorite, the Chrysler Building) to the ones being done today. For me, the best thing about the St. Regis crown is that it lights up at night. That's nice. But in the daytime, it looks kind of flimsy and unstructural to me.
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  #294  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2007, 3:12 AM
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Originally Posted by BTinSF View Post
^^^I agree with that, twinpeaks, but I prefer the type that doesn't look so much like what they obviously are: just a screen to block the view of HVAC equipment. Compare the crown of a traditional skyscraper (like everybody's favorite, the Chrysler Building) to the ones being done today. For me, the best thing about the St. Regis crown is that it lights up at night. That's nice. But in the daytime, it looks kind of flimsy and unstructural to me.
what i think is well done about the top of st regis is that it naturally grows out of the volume defined by the glazed corners - crowns too often interrupt the vertical lines in the building.

... and all discussions of subjectivity aside, you might take note of the fact that every other comment about SFIA or St Regis, outside of your own, have been positive. perhaps that suggests that SOM wouldn't be the massive disaster on transbay that you seem to suggest.
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  #295  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2007, 4:48 AM
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Originally Posted by StatenIslander237 View Post
I like the current terminal at SFIA better, but that's only my opinion.
That's Eero Saarinen's Dulles terminal, an iconic work of 60s modernism. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but keep in mind that this building (along with his TWA terminal) has greatly affected the design of airports around the world ever since.
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  #296  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2007, 4:59 AM
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I like the design of Dulles, but I prefer better function and amenities to go along with the great design. SFO is closer to being on par with the new Asian airports, HKG, SIA, KUL where modern design meets efficiency and passenger amenities, quick customs, and direct rail links to the city center.

As for the rest of SFO, it pretty much sucks as bad as, say, the Stapleton of old.
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  #297  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2007, 3:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FourOneFive View Post
Regarding the Transbay Tower and Transit Terminal:

From GlobeSt.com:

Deadline Comes for Transbay Terminal Bids
By Brian K. Miller


SAN FRANCISCO-A host of high-profile developers and architects beat Thursday’s registration deadline to bid for the right to design and develop a new Downtown transit terminal and 80-story mixed-use tower that will eclipse the Transamerica Pyramid by 150 feet. Two hundred people representing 120 firms worldwide attended a pair of required pre-bid conferences at the Herbst Theater in recent weeks... The next deadline for the competition is Jan. 11, when registrants must detail their design and development teams as part of their formal response to the RFQ.
You all have gotten pretty far off topic in this thread. I keep seeing it jump to the top of the list thinking there's some news after the deadline, but yer giving me nada. Any news on what was submitted on Jan 11?
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  #298  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2007, 9:19 PM
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Originally Posted by FourOneFive View Post

Deadline Comes for Transbay Terminal Bids

- SAN FRANCISCO -

Responses to the RFQ will be reviewed by a jury of seven design, development and transit professionals. The jury will name finalists on Feb. 15. The finalists will submit full proposals by Aug. 10 and the jury will recommend a winner by Aug. 25, when the Transbay Joint Powers Authority Board will make a final determination. Construction is expected to begin in 2009.

The jury includes Robert Campbell, a Pulitzer Prize-winning architecture critic for the Boston Globe; Hsin-Ming Fung, principal and co-founder of Hodgetts + Fung Design and a full professor at California State Polytechnic University’s School of Environmental Design; Susan L. Handy, a Professor in the Department of Environmental Science and Policy at the University of California at Davis; Oscar Harris, founder and CEO of Turner Associates Architects and Planners Inc.; Arthur Johnson, vice president of KPFF Consulting Engineers; Jerry Keyser, chairman of the board at Keyser Marston; and Allison G. Williams, design principal for Perkins & Will.

Following final selection by the TJPA Board, the TJPA will enter into a design contract directly with the lead design architect and its design and engineering team for the transit center. The TJPA will separately enter into a development agreement with the developer for the transit tower project, including the same lead design architect and the tower A/E team.
I dont think they'll be saying anything about the proposals that were submitted, it wouldnt make sense to me anyways. They'll probably just tell you who is still in the running, but not thier designs, if they have any yet. Basically all there is left to do is wait to see what happens. Chances are we'll hear a thing or two about the heights changing because I see it unlikely that Piano's Towers will be at or above the level of the Transbay Tower. Looks like February 15th is your next date to watch for.
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  #299  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2007, 2:58 AM
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And Four Remain...

...if the Board approves the Jury's recommendation on the 15th

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Mlynarik View Post
Transbay design competition news
http://www.transbaycenter.org/TransB...nt.aspx?id=680
http://www.transbaycenter.org/TransB...rticipants.pdf

Rogers, Pelli, Calatrava, SOM in.
Foster out.
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  #300  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2007, 4:05 PM
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Confirmation

The Examiner confirms the elimination of Foster/Heller-Manus this morning and provides a little insight into budget concerns and the selection process:

http://www.examiner.com/a-568887~Fir...al_design.html

Firms compete for terminal design

SAN FRANCISCO - Amid talks of budgetary shortfalls, four architectural firms will compete for the massive undertaking of designing the Transbay Terminal on Mission Street, often referred to as the “Grand Central of the West.”

The Transbay Joint Powers Authority Board formally named the four contenders Thursday while unexpectedly eliminating one firm from the process. With an August deadline, designers will have to balance innovation and creativity while being sensitive to financial constraints.

“There are important things — design excellence and cost —meaning even if we had a wonderful design but it costs four times the budget, that’s something that we are not going to do,” board member Michael Cohen said.

The project’s vast design work requires several pieces to make headway. The plan includes a mixed-use tower that would alter The City’s skyline. A proposed underground rail line would run along the Embarcadero and would require the relocation of several businesses. Also being considered is a Caltrain extension from its Fourth and King station to the Transbay site on Mission and First streets. The board faces a massive funding gap to meet a price tag estimate of $2.4 billion.

Board members began reviewing potential funding sources, knowing that overall expenses could exceed $2 billion.

While the first phase of the new Transbay station is fully funded, last week Controller Ed Harrington described funding plans for the Caltrain extension and an underground line as a “very high-risk project.”

The terminal would accommodate different modes of transportation — buses, commuter trains and bullet trains — while connecting San Francisco to a larger network that could reach other regions, such as San Joaquin County.

Board members seemed excited by the group of architects that will vie for the task. The group was described as “extraordinary,” with an impressive list of architectural achievements that carry an international presence.

For example, Santiago Calatrava, based in Zurich, created the Athens Olympic Sports Complex; Pelli Clarke Pelli Architects shaped Hong Kong’s skyline; and The City’s St. Regis Hotel was designed by Skidmore, Owings & Merrill & Rockefeller Group Development Corp.

The firm booted from competition, the reputable Foster + Partners and Heller-Manus Architects, was described as uncoordinated and falling short of expectations, said Don Stastny, the competition’s manager. At one point during the process, the firm submitted a report where a large portion of data was chopped off because of an errant printer. After the terminal’s design is selected in September, it will go before the Board of Supervisors, which could happen in late 2008.

Architectural adversaries
The four firms selected to compete to design the Transbay Terminal
» Santiago Calatrava & Boston Properties, Zurich, Switzerland
Notable achievement: The Turning Torso in Malmo, Sweden
» Pelli Clarke Pelli Architects & Hines, New Haven, Conn.
Notable achievement: Reagan National Airport, Washington, D.C.
» Richard Rogers Partnership & Forest City Enterprises, London
Notable achievement: Antwerp Law Courts, Antwerp, Belgium
» Skidmore, Owings & Merrill & Rockefeller Group Development Corp., Chicago
Notable achievement: International Terminal, SFO
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