Philadelphia Transportation Thread

[DBR96A]

So now that Philadelphia (city proper) is growing again, it's time to twist some federal arms and get money to upgrade the ridiculous Schuylkill Expressway into something befitting a major world city. The fact that the two busiest highway segments in Pennsylvania have 1950's-era engineering is a cruel joke, and must be rectified. In other words, what they're ready to do for I-83 through Harrisburg (another obsolete highway segment) must be done for I-76 into Philadelphia and I-376 through Pittsburgh. Besides, I'm sure that it'll be less expensive to upgrade both those highways combined than it was for Boston to do the "Big Dig."

No, I have nothing against trains. In fact, I want the Keystone West line upgraded too, so that Pittsburgh can be connected better with eastern Pennsylvania, and I'm glad that the freight rail lines around Pittsburgh are being upgraded to handle double-decker trains. With that said, world-class cities have both modern train systems and modern highway systems, not one or the other. Even in Europe and Japan, where public transit use is high, any city that's worth a shit has well-engineered highways to go with their well-engineered transit. Besides, I'm not advocating a new highway on the exurban fringe, which really is a waste of money. I'm advocating the improvement of existing highways.

Every city that's worth something should be encouraged to upgrade their existing infrastructure when necessary -- and in Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, upgrading those two highways is long overdue.

[volguus zildrohar]

This topic has come up on the forum from time to time. The way the road was built left it so physically hemmed in. I have a hard time visualizing any increase in capacity that doesn't involve double decking.

[EastSideHBG]

Posted on Sat, Oct. 8, 2011

SEPTA's new electronic payment system will be a big change for rail commuters

By Paul Nussbaum
Inquirer Staff Writer

SEPTA's new electronic fare-payment system may herald the biggest change for local rail commuters since the Center City tunnel was built 30 years ago.

SEPTA expects to award a contract this month for its long-delayed "smart card" fare system, which will allow bus, subway, trolley, and train passengers to pay for their trips by tapping any "contactless" bank card on an electronic reader. Riders can use credit or debit cards they already own or get smart cards from SEPTA.

The system is also being designed to eventually accept payment from smartphones.

The $100 million system will take three years to install, so SEPTA riders won't immediately shift from their tokens, passes, tickets, and cash.

For most bus, subway, and trolley riders, electronic fares won't mean a big change in commuting habits - new card readers will simply replace old subway turnstiles and bus fare stanchions.

For rail passengers, though, electronic fares will alter their traveling experience. The big question is, will new be better?

The stakes are considerable: Regional Rail's 118,000 daily passengers account for 13 percent of SEPTA's riders and 25 percent of its revenue.

One of the biggest changes for rail riders will be gates and turnstiles in Center City train stations to herd passengers past electronic fare-readers.

At the other end of their trips, riders will need to "tag in" or "tag out" with a smart card for their fares to be deducted. That may be done at stationary readers on a train platform or by conductors with handheld devices on trains.

Either way, it's sure to mean a change for riders used to rushing to and from trains and simply presenting a pass or ticket to a conductor.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20...mpid=124488459

[Phil_North]

PATCO has a tag out system, which seems to work well. I've only used it a few times. I wonder if SEPTA will have a need for the same number of conductors once this new fare system is enacted. I haven't heard any statements made by the union, but it will be interesting to see the need for a conductor if every single station has turnstiles. I doubt Septa would spend the money for this as some stations see very little ridership.

[Hamilton]

Originally Posted by DBR96A

So now that Philadelphia (city proper) is growing again, it's time to twist some federal arms and get money to upgrade the ridiculous Schuylkill Expressway into something befitting a major world city. The fact that the two busiest highway segments in Pennsylvania have 1950's-era engineering is a cruel joke, and must be rectified. In other words, what they're ready to do for I-83 through Harrisburg (another obsolete highway segment) must be done for I-76 into Philadelphia and I-376 through Pittsburgh. Besides, I'm sure that it'll be less expensive to upgrade both those highways combined than it was for Boston to do the "Big Dig."

No, I have nothing against trains. In fact, I want the Keystone West line upgraded too, so that Pittsburgh can be connected better with eastern Pennsylvania, and I'm glad that the freight rail lines around Pittsburgh are being upgraded to handle double-decker trains. With that said, world-class cities have both modern train systems and modern highway systems, not one or the other. Even in Europe and Japan, where public transit use is high, any city that's worth a shit has well-engineered highways to go with their well-engineered transit. Besides, I'm not advocating a new highway on the exurban fringe, which really is a waste of money. I'm advocating the improvement of existing highways.

Every city that's worth something should be encouraged to upgrade their existing infrastructure when necessary -- and in Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, upgrading those two highways is long overdue.

The last thing Philadelphia or an American city needs is to waste tax dollars on inefficient, city-destroying highways. You may have nothing against trains, but you're prioritizing the rehabilitation of the highway over the rehabilitation of the mass transit system (which is definitely in need of increased service frequency and major infrastructure overhauls). The money would be better spent there first.

[volguus zildrohar]

Originally Posted by Phil_North

PATCO has a tag out system, which seems to work well. I've only used it a few times. I wonder if SEPTA will have a need for the same number of conductors once this new fare system is enacted. I haven't heard any statements made by the union, but it will be interesting to see the need for a conductor if every single station has turnstiles. I doubt Septa would spend the money for this as some stations see very little ridership.

The few articles I've read in the paper about SEPTA's plans for the RR with the new fare system include a lot of quote from conductors and various groups saying 'regional rail riders won't swipe in and out' as if they're incapable of doing so. I'm sure the ease of not having to stand in line for tickets and passes, as well as being able to swipe at subway/bus stops without stopping for tokens will make up whatever inconvenience they may experience.

[wanderer34]

I'm not so sure if I added my two cents to this thread, but here I go: right now, since the Phila metro area is growing (this includes the Lehigh Valley, Berks County, and to a certain extent, Lancaster, PA), I feel the biggest priority in this area must be restoring and in certain cases, expanding certain lines such as the (in order of most priority), the --

- R3 to West Chester,

- the R6 to Reading and Wyomissing

- a new expansion from Lansdale to the Lehigh Valley (Allentown, Bethlehem, Easton, and Phillipsburg NJ) consisting of two lines called the R7 to Allentown, and the R8 to Phillipsburg, NJ (the current R6 Norristown line, R7 and R8 Chestnut Hill lines, and R8 Fox Chase line will be replaced by local subway service.)

- new realignment of the R8 line from Phillipsburg, NJ to Wilmington and Newark, DE and the R2 line from Warminster to Kennett Square and Oxford via Media.

-a new R4 line from 30th St to Newtown via Jenkintown w/ a turn after Rydal station to the old Newtown Branch. Walnut Hill station won't be continued.

I believe that the subway system can also be expanded w/ a line from the Zoo, the Art Museum, the Convention Center, Old City, and Penn's Landing' plus three lines serving the NE, three serving the NW, one from Penn's Landing to the Airport, and a crosstown Line from Essington to Bensalem. Ditto for the oft-confusing subway system.

[pwp]

Originally Posted by wanderer34

I believe that the subway system can also be expanded w/ a line from the Zoo, the Art Museum, the Convention Center, Old City, and Penn's Landing' plus three lines serving the NE, three serving the NW, one from Penn's Landing to the Airport, and a crosstown Line from Essington to Bensalem. Ditto for the oft-confusing subway system.

I know this question has been asked before on SSP but, realistically, what are the chances of such a line being constructed, in terms of its engineering and priority to transit planners? Economically, I'm sure there's little to no chance.

I believe there's an unused subway station somewhere in the Art Museum. Anyone have any pictures of this?

[Phil_North]

I've never heard of a subway station near the Art Museum, but there is an old rail line that runs parallel with Callowhill street, then next to/under Pennsylvania avenue. Part of the land where the tracks once ran is being used as a parking lot near Whole Foods. An old plan did propose using this line for a rapid transit expansion.

[pwp]

Originally Posted by Phil_North

I've never heard of a subway station near the Art Museum, but there is an old rail line that runs parallel with Callowhill street, then next to/under Pennsylvania avenue. Part of the land where the tracks once ran is being used as a parking lot near Whole Foods. An old plan did propose using this line for a rapid transit expansion.

Interesting... how far does this line extend?

[hammersklavier]

...All the way to the Reading Terminal. It was never, however, used for passengers; rather, it was an industrial spur accessing the Baldwin Locomotive Works, the Inquirer plant, the garment factories in what we now call Callowhill, and the Reading's main freight terminal (first at today's Union Transfer, and then the Terminal Commerce Building, a.k.a. 401 North Broad).

[DenverTrans]

I think the City Branch did host passenger trains:

http://viaductgreene.org/9th-street-city-branches/

[donoteat]

So what I'm gathering is that the new electronic fare system would work somewhat like the Washington Metro?

(You put money on the card and swipe it lets you through and then you swipe it again at the exit and it charges you.)

Having just moved from Washington to Philadelphia, the idea that any transit system would work any other way is completely foreign to me.
(Tokens? What is this, 1924?)

[Phil_North]

Yes, tokens are pretty antiquated. Currently I think most commuters who use the system daily but a weekly or monthly pass which can be swiped on buses, trolleys and subways and is simply shown to the conductor on the Regional Rail trains. The new system would work as you described for the regional rail trains.

[hammersklavier]

The big question with NPT is whether total fare collection integration (which is one of its key goals) is genius or folly. Or: why hasn't it been attempted in Europe?

[Phil_North]

http://www.newsworks.org/index.php/t...ding-for-septa

U.S. Senator Bob Casey announced this morning $6.44 million in funding for two SEPTA projects....

[thenbagis]

While this is good news... I feel like they really need the cash for the new fare card system.

(I know they are going forward with the fare card system, but they took big loans out to do it, which I hope won't hurt SEPTA in the future)

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by thenbagis

While this is good news... I feel like they really need the cash for the new fare card system.

(I know they are going forward with the fare card system, but they took big loans out to do it, which I hope won't hurt SEPTA in the future)

Are you invoking Finagle's Law?

[thenbagis]

quite possibly... We all know SEPTA's financial stability is as well as stable as an elephant in a canoe? (maybe a giraffe?)...

A loan for a system that in my mind is necessary and may possibly increase revenue (simpler fare system -> easier for tourists and newbs to try public transit)

A grant for something that will reduce costs...hybrid buses

A grant for something that is nice to have... a fixed up strawberry mansion station.


To me... a loan would make sense for the hybrid buses... You can create a more likely business case. Hybrid buses save fuel... therefore we should be able to pay the loan back with fuel savings.

Changing the payment method doesn't have the same likeliness of paying back a loan.

And yeah... needing the pay the loan back will come just as there is a SEPTA strike and/or republicans cut the public transit budget... hence Finagle's Law

[pwp]

SEPTA awards $129.5 million “smart card” contract
November 17, 2011|By Paul Nussbaum, INQUIRER STAFF WRITER

SEPTA awarded a Maryland company a $129.5 million contract Thursdayfor the long-awaited "smart card" fare system to allow bus, subway, trolley and rail passengers to pay for their trips by tapping a card on an electronic reader.

http://articles.philly.com/2011-11-1...tation-systems