Sports in Canadian culture

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I agree with isaidso. Football is a hot commodity in southern NB and central NS. It has no cultural resonance whatsoever in Newfoundland. If there were to be two Atlantic Canadian teams in the CFL, they would be in Halifax and Moncton.

I choose Moncton over Saint John because:
1)- Moncton is growing and Saint John is not.
2)- Regardless of a possible team in Halifax, Moncton is still more central to more people.
3)- There would be a lot of game day traffic between Halifax and Moncton (2.5 hour drive).
4)- Football is a bigger thing in Moncton than Saint John. In my experience (all three sons having played the game in high school, and one still playing in university), The football hotbeds in NB are Moncton, Fredericton and Sackville. The game is popular in Saint John, just a little less so.

JHikka's musings about the CFL looking at smaller stadia for smaller cities is intriguing. I doubt that this would ever happen, but it certainly would give the league far more options for expansion. As it stands now, only the most exceptional markets with fewer than 500,000 people would be considered. This would limit the league to at most 4-5 more teams. I wonder what the optimal size for the CFL is?

I think the issue in Saint John is lack of a CIS squad to get behind. A sport can't grow with just high school football alone. Saint John not growing is the big negative. If it can start growing again (Irving LNG?) their stock rises. In Fredericton, UNB used to field a football team and might be back and suspect they'll be back in the fold within a decade.

Btw, isn't Fredericton closer to Saint John than Moncton?

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by isaidso

I think the issue in Saint John is lack of a CIS squad to get behind. A sport can't grow with just high school football alone. Saint John not growing is the big negative. If it can start growing again (Irving LNG?) their stock rises. In Fredericton, UNB used to field a football team and might be back and suspect they'll be back in the fold within a decade.

Btw, isn't Fredericton closer to Saint John than Moncton?

Saint John has a University team (UNBSJ) but they're not full CIS as far as I know. Certainly someone will correct me on this. Saint John's lack of economic growth is well-documented and hopefully will be sorted out soon.

Fredericton is closer to Saint John than Moncton, yes.

[isaidso]

Yep, UNBSJ is a club team like Holland College and Dalhousie. It's not CIS. It would be great if all 3 could move up to CIS, but the Maritimes isn't big enough to support so many teams. There's already 4 for a population of 1.8 million. Fielding 7 squads would put even more pressure to recruit outside the region. A weak conference would get even weaker.

Originally Posted by JHikka

10-12 at most IMO. It would probably be pretty steady with 10..

The constant repetition of having to play the same teams over and over is a big problem. Having only 9 teams is also an issue from a content pov. There just aren't enough games on/week. After the 4 weekend games are done, I find myself wanting a few more games, but there aren't any more. My only option is NFL, CIS, or NCAA.

We need to get to 14-16 teams to rectify this issue, but realistically 12 is the most one can expect by 2030. Over the following 10 years a few other cities might be ready and large enough to support pro football. That's way too far off to determine however.

[MonctonRad]

UNB Fredericton has a club team too - the Red Bombers, and this is the team that my youngest son still plays football for.

The league is the Atlantic Football League.
- UNB (Fredericton) Red Bombers
- UNB (Saint John) Sea Wolves
- Dalhousie University Tigers
- Holland College Hurricanes

It's rather odd that the second tier AFL is located in larger cities, and a couple of larger universities than the region's CIS schools (Wolfville, Antigonish and Sackville in addition to Halifax). The stadia in the AFL are all pretty decent, the quality of the football isn't bad and the crowds are surprisingly good.

My hope is that a couple of the AFL teams make the jump to CIS. I think Dalhousie and UNB (Fredericton) would be no brainers. I know my son would really like the Red Bombers to be CIS. He probably could have played with the Acadia Axemen, but he is in engineering and made the rather mature decision to sacrifice his university football career in order to attend a school with a 4-year engineering program.

If UNB and Dal joined the AUS, this would give the Atlantic CIS conference six teams, which would give the conference more stability and relevance than it has now,

[middeljohn]

Really need October 29 to come sooner.

[BretttheRiderFan]

As far as local teams in Edmonton go, obviously the Oilers and Eskimos are king.

Then I'd say probably the Oil Kings in a distant third, being Memorial Cup champs they've got a decent profile in the city right now and their ads are everywhere. I've started seeing Edmonton Rush NLL ads and have heard the games are fun to see, but I don't really see anybody talking about them. I also see a decent amount of FC Edmonton merch and ads around, what kind of crowds does that team get? Because I feel like it's nothing close to what the Whitecaps or Impact meant to their respective cities in their USL days.

[middeljohn]

What was up with today's Oilers-Jets preseason game not being aired in Edmonton? I tried to watch it and got a "not available in your territory" message.

[BretttheRiderFan]

Is it on Sportsnet? I didn't realize there was a game going on until I hit the hockey crowd on the LRT.

[mistercorporate]

Noticed an Argos Youtube video promoting one of their future games, looked pretty snazzy. Is this a new phenomenon, are they now starting to take their marketing seriously?

[esquire]

^ Doubtful. Didn't they turf a good part of their sales and marketing staff this season?

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

UNB Fredericton has a club team too - the Red Bombers, and this is the team that my youngest son still plays football for.

The league is the Atlantic Football League.
- UNB (Fredericton) Red Bombers
- UNB (Saint John) Sea Wolves
- Dalhousie University Tigers
- Holland College Hurricanes

It's rather odd that the second tier AFL is located in larger cities, and a couple of larger universities than the region's CIS schools (Wolfville, Antigonish and Sackville in addition to Halifax). The stadia in the AFL are all pretty decent, the quality of the football isn't bad and the crowds are surprisingly good.

My hope is that a couple of the AFL teams make the jump to CIS. I think Dalhousie and UNB (Fredericton) would be no brainers. I know my son would really like the Red Bombers to be CIS. He probably could have played with the Acadia Axemen, but he is in engineering and made the rather mature decision to sacrifice his university football career in order to attend a school with a 4-year engineering program.

If UNB and Dal joined the AUS, this would give the Atlantic CIS conference six teams, which would give the conference more stability and relevance than it has now,

That's right, UNB! I couldn't remember what that 4th club team was. I also think UNB and Dal moving to CIS is a no-brainer, but it would likely spell doom for Holland College and UNBSJ. I'd much rather have an even weaker AUS Conference and bring all 4 into CIS at the same time. It would make the conference far more interesting having 8 teams and hopefully in the long term the talent level can rise.

I wish the CFL would invest in CIS. I think it's ridiculous that you can go to CIS games in Quebec and the NFL is centre stage with their banners, promos, etc. Canada is the CFL's territory and they should be doing everything they can to support football at both the high school and university level. The stronger they are, the stronger the CFL will be. Do they not get that? It's almost like they view CIS as this foreign rival to them. It's dumb dumb dumb.

Btw, what is average attendance at Holland College, UNB, Dal, and UNBSJ? Do any of them draw over 1000? I also noticed that the AFL is holding exhibition games against US colleges this year. Are they playing regular football or US football?

Holland College @ Maine Maritime Academy (Castine, Maine)
UNBSJ @ Husson University (Bangor, Maine)

I also noticed some games scheduled for 'BMO Field'. Surely that's not the one in Toronto?

[isaidso]

College football is finally growing in this country. There were over 12,000 at the Panda Game this year. Some photos from around the country:


MAC!



ST. FX!



SASKATCHEWAN!



LAVAL!



LAURIER!



GUELPH!



MONTREAL!

[isaidso]

Edit.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by isaidso

That's right, UNB!I also think UNB and Dal moving to CIS is a no-brainer, but it would likely spell doom for Holland College and UNBSJ. I'd much rather have an even weaker AUS Conference and bring all 4 into CIS at the same time. It would make the conference far more interesting having 8 teams and hopefully in the long term the talent level can rise.

The trouble with Holland College is that it is a community college (albeit a high level one) rather than a full fledged four year university. It probably wouldn't be eligible for the CIS. Too bad, they probably have the best team in the league. Out of the 50-60 people on the team, only about 6 are Islanders. For some reason, there are about 20 people from Massachusetts on the team. There are also about 15-20 Bahamians. I have no idea why there are so many imports on the team. I guess they must be taking specialized courses at Holland College. If you wanted to take in all four teams to make an eight team AUS division, the Hurricanes would have to switch their allegiance to UPEI (which would probably be OK - they play their games at UPEI anyway).

Originally Posted by isaidso

I wish the CFL would invest in CIS. I think it's ridiculous that you can go to CIS games in Quebec and the NFL is centre stage with their banners, promos, etc. Canada is the CFL's territory and they should be doing everything they can to support football at both the high school and university level. The stronger they are, the stronger the CFL will be. Do they not get that? It's almost like they view CIS as this foreign rival to them. It's dumb dumb dumb.

Yes, the NFL is busily sniffing around Mount Allison University in Sackville this year, sponsoring all sorts of student events and advertising at the Mounties home games. The CFL should be doing this - not the NFL.

Originally Posted by isaidso

Btw, what is average attendance at Holland College, UNB, Dal, and UNBSJ? Do any of them draw over 1000?

I have been to all three Red Bombers games so far this year (not a surprise since my son plays with the team). These games were in Halifax, Charlottetown and Fredericton. I would say there were 2,500 at the Dal game easily. There were probably 1,500 at the UNB game and perhaps 1,000 at the Holland College game at UPEI. These may be club teams, but the atmosphere is every bit as good as at any AUS game I've attended. We're talking about pep bands, cheerleaders, beer tents and pre game ceremonies where university presidents kick the ceremonial first balls of the season etc. I have been very impressed. Make no mistake, this may not be CIS, but these teams are very much the university football teams!!!

Originally Posted by isaidso

I also noticed that the AFL is holding exhibition games against US colleges this year. Are they playing regular football or US football?

Holland College @ Maine Maritime Academy (Castine, Maine)
UNBSJ @ Husson University (Bangor, Maine)

Yes, Holland College and UNBSJ in particular have been active for several years in pre season games against Division Three NCAA teams in the US northeast. They play American rules when facing the US teams. If I was to guess, if UNB and Dalhousie make the leap to AUS, I think Holland College (definitely) and UNBSJ (possibly) might make a move to NCAA Division Three.

Originally Posted by isaidso

I also noticed some games scheduled for 'BMO Field'. Surely that's not the one in Toronto?

BMO Field is at UNB Fredericton. It's right next to the university hockey rink where the UNB Varsity Reds and the Saint Thomas (University) Tommies play.

[BretttheRiderFan]

Wish our universities in western Canada (besides the U of S Huskies) had anything comparable as far as gameday atmospheres goes. The worst is definitely going to a Dinos game in cavernous McMahon Stadium.

[isaidso]

Schools in the east have many advantages over the ones in the west. Football traces its origins to some of these schools so they have heaps of history and tradition tied up in the sport. Most of them exist in cities and towns with no CFL and have large student populations. In the AUS the schools are tiny, but they make up for it by having a high % of students living on campus and turning out to games. It's not uncommon to see Mt. Allison football attendance higher that the entire student population. In other words, the entire school shows up + a few outsiders from the town.

The last, but most crucial component is stadium size. Calgary would have a decent chance of growing the sport if they had an intimate 6000 seat stadium like MAC's. There are rumblings that Calgary wants money set aside to build a small stadium for the Dinos when McMahon is redeveloped, upgraded, and/or renovated. That would be a massive shot in the arm for them. Didn't the Bisons get a small stadium next to IGF?

You're right that the sport is far bigger out here than in your neck of the woods. I grew up in Nova Scotia. If you like football, it was CIS or you're stuck at home watching some team from outside the region. CIS does very well in Nova Scotia, especially in basketball.

[BretttheRiderFan]

The Bisons play at IGF.

[BretttheRiderFan]

It's interesting how the CFL is so much more "big time" in the west (generally) and with the CIS the opposite is true.

Does anybody think these are somehow related?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Didn't the Bisons get a small stadium next to IGF?

The Bisons are a co-tenant at IGF. IGF replaced the older stadium next door, which is still used for other sports.

There is still a bit of new stadium excitement at IGF and the players are happy given how abysmal the facilities were at the old stadium, but I'm sure there will be complaints once the excitement wears off and the reality of playing in front of 25,000 or more empty seats every game sets in.

[BretttheRiderFan]

I actually attended the Huskies-Bisons game at IGF last year before the Banjo Bowl, and was impressed with the atmosphere given that the attendance was only like 5,000 or something. It was an exciting game too though so that played into it.