Canada's other half

[speedog]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

woot woot!

Pfft.

Olds, Alberta does better than this with a student population at Olds College estimated to be 1,350 versus the town of Olds population at 8,235..

I am quite sure if one did enough digging that one could find even more extreme examples. Lethbridge, Alberta would be another example with it's college and university - one does have to keep in mind that some of these students may very well come from that local area and I suspect Queen's is not an exception to this rule either.

Silly for people to point fingers (even in jest) over such a trivial matter.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

I actually read an article about establishing a northern university in the First Air inflight magazine a few weeks ago. It seems that they are taking steps exploring the idea, and would probably go with a multi-campus model covering the entire north. It seemed that the success of the University of Greenland in Nuuk was being used as a model for how a university could succeed in the territories as well.

Manitoba established a university up north a decade ago based in Thompson and The Pas (University College of the North). It has a pretty mediocre reputation thus far, and I think it's safe to say that it is only considered a good alternative to not pursuing any sort of post-secondary education at all. The UCN experience has taught us that it is not easy to set up a university in a remote region.

[BretttheRiderFan]

Grande Prairie Regional College is always growing and serves as the starting point for many Peace Region students (I did the first two years of my U of A degree there) who transfer to university later on. The student population is north of 2,000 with over 6,000 if you include workforce training and recreational programs and there is also a campus in Fairview. Some U of A Bachelors Degrees can also be completed there.

The campus itself is very nice and was designed by Douglas Cardinal (who also designed the Museum of Civilization in Ottawa) and is definitely a focus of the community of Grande Prairie.

https://www.gprc.ab.ca/files/pages/i...eviewLarge.jpg

[ssiguy]

I think that the old established schools are beginning to loose their draw, especially UBC and U. of Toronto.

University is not just about learning but also about personal growth, meeting new and interesting people, exploring new ideas, and just finally having some independent fun without having to answer to mom and dad.

This is where UBC/UoT are losing their edge, especially amongst those who go to school for the experience just as much as the education. Reality is that those 2 schools, more than any other in the country, are considered "too Asian" ie boring. The standard due to the huge Asian population of the schools make it difficult for a lot of kids to get in and many no longer want to as they view Asian schools as dull, repetitive, and exclusionary.

UBC now is said to stand for University of Billionaire Chinese. Where schools use to be predominately white making other non-white kids feel alienated now the reverse is true.
UBC is now 48% Chinese........even in Vancouver, not a reflection of the city it is suppose to represent. The Chinese, especially those who are not born in Canada, can be very insular with no or little interest in socializing outside of their ethnic group.

My nephew couldn't get into UBC with his B average and those in his class that were accepted to UBC , all but one was Chinese. He said he doesn't want to go to a "boring Chinese school" and neither do most of his friends. He is very liberal kid but says he wants to go to a fun school with a great mix of students and he said all his friends automatically write off UBC because of this.

Basically these two schools have done a complete 180 going from WASP-only to a school effectively run by another single ethnic group. Their strive for "diversity" has left them less diverse than at anytime in the last 30 years.

This is not the case with smaller schools with less prestigious names or schools in smaller cities like Queens or Western.

[BretttheRiderFan]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

My nephew couldn't get into UBC with his B average and those in his class that were accepted to UBC , all but one was Chinese. He said he doesn't want to go to a "boring Chinese school" and neither do most of his friends. He is very liberal kid but says he wants to go to a fun school with a great mix of students and he said all his friends automatically write off UBC because of this.

Basically these two schools have done a complete 180 going from WASP-only to a school effectively run by another single ethnic group. Their strive for "diversity" has left them less diverse than at anytime in the last 30 years.

This is not the case with smaller schools with less prestigious names or schools in smaller cities like Queens or Western.

Rather than mourning your nephew, I say we celebrate the fact that those others in his class are raising the standards of UBC.

I highly doubt these children are all the children of Chinese billionaires...they were no doubt Chinese-Canadian kids attending high school in British Columbia?


48% Chinese students at UBC is "being run by a single ethnic group"?

The Chancellor's name is Lindsay Gordon...the President is Arvind Gupta...the Vancouver Provost is David Farrar...none of those names sounds particularly Chinese to me.

And your hypothesis that Chinese kids do not socialize outside their ethnic group surely can be backed with anecdotal evidence, but does this actual pass the smell test when it comes to facts about socialization? Anecdotally, in a month at the U of A, I (a white kid from rural Alberta) have made many new friends, the majority being of Asian (whether it be Chinese, Indian or other) background. And the majority of them are born and bred Canucks.

Is it a bad thing for academic standards at our universities to be raised by a new stock of young Canadians with more focus and work ethic? Is less of a "party culture" necessarily a bad thing?

[Procrastinational]

Originally Posted by BretttheRiderFan

Rather than mourning your nephew, I say we celebrate the fact that those others in his class are raising the standards of UBC.

I highly doubt these children are all the children of Chinese billionaires...they were no doubt Chinese-Canadian kids attending high school in British Columbia?


48% Chinese students at UBC is "being run by a single ethnic group"?

The Chancellor's name is Lindsay Gordon...the President is Arvind Gupta...the Vancouver Provost is David Farrar...none of those names sounds particularly Chinese to me.

And your hypothesis that Chinese kids do not socialize outside their ethnic group surely can be backed with anecdotal evidence, but does this actual pass the smell test when it comes to facts about socialization? Anecdotally, in a month at the U of A, I (a white kid from rural Alberta) have made many new friends, the majority being of Asian (whether it be Chinese, Indian or other) background. And the majority of them are born and bred Canucks.

Is it a bad thing for academic standards at our universities to be raised by a new stock of young Canadians with more focus and work ethic? Is less of a "party culture" necessarily a bad thing?

I'm gonna have to agree with ssiguy on this one... And this is coming from someone currently attending UBC. Mind you I'm at the Okanagan campus, but hopefully I can still offer some insight.

UBC's Vancouver campus is absolutely the "asian school". That's one of the reasons (of many) that I chose not to go there. The majority of white people I knew growing up felt the same, and ended up going to places like UBC Okanagan, U of C, UVic, Queens, etc...
I think the issue people have with this has nothing to do with academics. It's great to be surrounded by people who are devoted to bettering themselves. The issue has more to do with cultural differences...

Incidentally, the majority of the people I met and befriended in second year were Indian or Asian, however as with you, these aren't international students, they are all born in Canada.

I haven't had the opportunity to get to know any of the international Chinese students we have on campus now (there seem to be more and more every year), as they do not socialize outside of their group...
I met one in the first week. He had quite the sob story (he was a bit drunk)... He was sent over with $50k in cash for school, which he spent on a shopping spree while in Vancouver... Long story short, his parents didn't mind and sent him another $100k...

All that aside, regardless of whether or not it is causing issues, I personally would like to see international students capped to maybe 10% or so...
I definitely believe that the education system here should benefit Canadians first, rather than trying to maximize tuition raised by bringing in as many international students as possible.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by BretttheRiderFan

Rather than mourning your nephew, I say we celebrate the fact that those others in his class are raising the standards of UBC.

I highly doubt these children are all the children of Chinese billionaires...they were no doubt Chinese-Canadian kids attending high school in British Columbia?


48% Chinese students at UBC is "being run by a single ethnic group"?

The Chancellor's name is Lindsay Gordon...the President is Arvind Gupta...the Vancouver Provost is David Farrar...none of those names sounds particularly Chinese to me.

And your hypothesis that Chinese kids do not socialize outside their ethnic group surely can be backed with anecdotal evidence, but does this actual pass the smell test when it comes to facts about socialization? Anecdotally, in a month at the U of A, I (a white kid from rural Alberta) have made many new friends, the majority being of Asian (whether it be Chinese, Indian or other) background. And the majority of them are born and bred Canucks.

Is it a bad thing for academic standards at our universities to be raised by a new stock of young Canadians with more focus and work ethic? Is less of a "party culture" necessarily a bad thing?

Actually ssiguy is kind of right about UBC. Many of my Canadian born Asian friends (largely Chinese and Korean) are even having second thoughts about going to UBC (and many have gone to smaller universities and colleges in BC instead) because of the relatively large foreign born Chinese populous. They are called satellite students because their parents live in China and after they graduate most of the them return to China.

At SFU you could always pinpoint the Mainland Chinese satellite students from the Canadian resident / citizen Chinese students. The satellite students have super expensive cars, every toy and gadget you can imagine, and they rarely socialize with non mainland Chinese people.

It is quite depressing actually.

That being said, UBC still has a decent night life if you hang out with the non-mainland Chinese satellite students. People have to remember that most of these students are among the brightest from China, and super smart high pressured people are rarely fun. If you go to China itself, there are many fun people to meet who love to party.

[GlassCity]

I'm being completely serious right now: After growing up and going to high school in Richmond, my first thought when I got to UBC was "wow, this place is really white."

From my own anecdotal experiences, I don't think UBC is losing its draw at all. It's still the ultimate goal of most students in the Vancouver area to go there. Yes its reputation for fun is average at best, but that doesn't seem to be a concern for many people. In addition to that, I haven't heard anybody say they don't want to go there because it's "too Chinese." Sure people leave to places like UVic or Ontario if they want to experience the "college party lifestyle" but I've never felt that its asian influence hurt it. My perception may be skewed being from Richmond, but I'd argue that the school hardly has an asian feel to it. Yes there's lots of Chinese students here, but I barely hear any Chinese being spoken walking around (which I did in high school.) I'd say the majority of Chinese students here are pretty assimilated, again at least compared to my experiences in high school. Just because they are Chinese doesn't mean they're not exciting and don't have fun.

You kind of proved that it's not losing its draw yourself when you said your nephew didn't get in with a B average. Frankly, I'm surprised you expected that would get someone in. High admission standards are proof that UBC is able to compete for lots of students from all over and is having no problem getting people to apply.

[1overcosc]

I just realized, exclusion may be a factor that leads to perceived prestige.

Queen's only accepts 40% of applicants; this is apparently the lowest of any Canadian university. The average high-school average of those students who do get in is 87%. Many departments will refuse to even consider anyone who did not graduate high school with honour roll. The education program routinely throws away any application the second they see a mark less than 70% anywhere on the applicant's high school transcript.

I got into Queen's but was rejected at Waterloo, so I break the trend, lol.

On the topic of Chinese students, Queen's has the same dynamic. There's some Mainland Chinese residents, especially at the business school. They have the same traits--overflowing with fancy gadgets, isolated from everybody else including Chinese Canadians. You can spot them walking downtown, usually 5-6 of them in a giant huddle furiously chatting away at each other in Mandarin. As opposed to the Chinese-Canadian kids who act the same as the white kids, more or less.

[ssiguy]

No Canadian should be denied access to university with a decent average if they are accepting international students especially in undergrad studies.

Also when you get kids with extremely high academic scores many got them thru rote learning........memorizing constantly. They also tend to be far richer than the average person as they got there by tutors and summer school which is an expensive option that few can afford.

Most Chinese parents instil a solid school ethic and ones that require rigid memory rote learning styles such as business, engineering, or something geared towards banking, financial services, or an eventual job in real estate or investments. Not that there is anything wrong with that per se but it often doesn't require as much learning as opposed to memory work. In other words memorize your text books and pray to god that your course doesn't require a lot of individual analysis, social context, real life experience, social interaction, creative thought, and literary prowess.

This is why Chinese students are overwhelmingly represented in business and engineering classes and near non-existent in arts or social sciences. This plays out in the workforce where adhering to strict rules, regulations, and little creative thought such as banking, financial services and real estate and are absent in government, schools, and social services. This of course diminishes greatly the longer the family has been in Canada and those with Canadian born parents tend to be far more diverse in their university choices.

This is why Chinese students and Chinese dominated schools have such a boring reputation and are viewed as nothing more than academic centres.......glorified libraries.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

No Canadian should be denied access to university with a decent average if they are accepting international students especially in undergrad studies.

Also when you get kids with extremely high academic scores many got them thru rote learning........memorizing constantly. They also tend to be far richer than the average person as they got there by tutors and summer school which is an expensive option that few can afford.

Most Chinese parents instil a solid school ethic and ones that require rigid memory rote learning styles such as business, engineering, or something geared towards banking, financial services, or an eventual job in real estate or investments. Not that there is anything wrong with that per se but it often doesn't require as much learning as opposed to memory work. In other words memorize your text books and pray to god that your course doesn't require a lot of individual analysis, social context, real life experience, social interaction, creative thought, and literary prowess.

This is why Chinese students are overwhelmingly represented in business and engineering classes and near non-existent in arts or social sciences. This plays out in the workforce where adhering to strict rules, regulations, and little creative thought such as banking, financial services and real estate and are absent in government, schools, and social services. This of course diminishes greatly the longer the family has been in Canada and those with Canadian born parents tend to be far more diverse in their university choices.

This is why Chinese students and Chinese dominated schools have such a boring reputation and are viewed as nothing more than academic centres.......glorified libraries.

Canadians can get into universities, it's really just the top 5 or maximum 10 schools that deny a significant amount of people. For British Columbians for example UVic is a very convenient and easier admission alternative to UBC.

I think you're being unfair though. Business and engineering is memory work? I'd say it's the other way around. I'm in Arts and 100% of what I'm studying is memorization. I took physics in high school and it was a lot more than that. You actually have to understand what you're doing, as opposed to learning word for word what the textbook says as I'm doing at this very moment. Both business and engineering require extensive creative thought and business definitely is huge on social interaction.

Viewed as nothing more than academic centres? That's exactly what a university is. Either way, trust me, UBC has parties too, with stories just as wild as anywhere else. It may not have the student culture of schools like Western but that has a lot more to do with commuter/residence ratios than demographic make up. Of course a bunch of finally-free 20 year olds living together in dorms at Queens are gonna have more fun than here where we bus to school every day. Put UBC in Prince George so students would be forced to live in residence and I guarantee you its party reputation would greatly improve, even if the racial mix stays the same.

[1overcosc]

That's another dimension that would affect the university culture significantly--commuter school vs. residential school. UWO and Queen's are 95%+ out of town kids whose parents live at least 200km away. Schools like York or Carleton are mostly commuters from their parents homes. Though Waterloo breaks the trend, it's mostly out-of-towners and the party life there is pretty crappy.

My discipline is computer science where Chinese-born are decently common, and I can tell you with certainty that you can't get by on memorization in my field.

Also, wealth and grades don't necessarily correlate. I never had private tutors or summer school or anything like that, and I got a 96% average in high school. And I'm not a genius either, just a hard worker.

[Architype]

Why is this thread all about Universities, when it's supposed to be about something else?

[1overcosc]

We got on the topic of how London and Kingston are shaped by their old money universities, and voila. Never underestimate the ability of SSP to get off topic.

Do we have a universities thread, and if so would a caring mod be willing to splice the past few pages of this thread into there?

[Architype]

London has a university? I didn't really know that, I'm a typical non-Ontarian Canadian. The Maritimes have a few towns like that too.
I just Googled it to refresh my memory, and I always though of Western Ontario as being . . . close to Winnipeg.

[BretttheRiderFan]

London, Ontario isn't exactly a "town" either

I don't think most westerners realize that the London CMA is about the size of Saskatoon and Regina combined.

[240glt]

Originally Posted by Architype

This is more to address the OP's point; the culture of the big city is there for you only in the larger cities, and only if you choose to participate, but it isn't found in the small towns. Does Vernon have a symphony orchestra, or Bruce Springsteen concerts, or travelling international art exhibits, or large ethnic communities, or Bentley dealerships, or direct flights overseas, as examples ?

Yes, Vernon does have a symphony orchestra. They also have a brand new concert hall which may not have attracted The Boss, but has attracted many other artists.

Due to it's agricultural nature, Vernon does have a large East Indian population, as well as a large population of Vietnamese who fled to the area during the war. Other ethnic groups are quite visible as well. You can reach the Kelowna International Airport in about 35 minutes from the Vernon city limits, and from there you can hit several US and beach destinations, or be at YVR in 40 minutes to go anywhere in the world

Vernon also has a satellite campus of UBC, and easy access to the UBC campus in Kelowna. Vernon and area has several well funded and supported theatre groups, such as the Powerhouse and Caravan Farm (Both of which have received acclaim from many different well known reviewers) World class downhill skiing and golfing, Exceptional lakes, prestigeous estate properties and a lively winter festival.

So yes, Vernon does have a lot of that stuff. No Bentley dealerships though. But Bentleys are terrible, unreliable cars for pretentious people with too much money who want to look more important than they really are, so I don't think many will care about that

[MolsonExport]

The grade inflation occurring in Ontario High Schools is appalling. Bumbling idiots with a 88% average.

[saffronleaf]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I think that the old established schools are beginning to loose their draw, especially UBC and U. of Toronto.

University is not just about learning but also about personal growth, meeting new and interesting people, exploring new ideas, and just finally having some independent fun without having to answer to mom and dad.

This is where UBC/UoT are losing their edge, especially amongst those who go to school for the experience just as much as the education. Reality is that those 2 schools, more than any other in the country, are considered "too Asian" ie boring. The standard due to the huge Asian population of the schools make it difficult for a lot of kids to get in and many no longer want to as they view Asian schools as dull, repetitive, and exclusionary.

UBC now is said to stand for University of Billionaire Chinese. Where schools use to be predominately white making other non-white kids feel alienated now the reverse is true.
UBC is now 48% Chinese........even in Vancouver, not a reflection of the city it is suppose to represent. The Chinese, especially those who are not born in Canada, can be very insular with no or little interest in socializing outside of their ethnic group.

My nephew couldn't get into UBC with his B average and those in his class that were accepted to UBC , all but one was Chinese. He said he doesn't want to go to a "boring Chinese school" and neither do most of his friends. He is very liberal kid but says he wants to go to a fun school with a great mix of students and he said all his friends automatically write off UBC because of this.

Basically these two schools have done a complete 180 going from WASP-only to a school effectively run by another single ethnic group. Their strive for "diversity" has left them less diverse than at anytime in the last 30 years.

This is not the case with smaller schools with less prestigious names or schools in smaller cities like Queens or Western.

Lol back to the anti-Chinese rant.

First they take our condos, then they take our universities!

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by saffronleaf

Lol back to the anti-Chinese rant.

First they take our condos, then they take our universities!

Can you pretend for a second these claims might be true.

Do you care, or do you think it's completely irrelevant and detached from reality.