HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Pacific West


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1021  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2008, 9:22 PM
Nutterbug Nutterbug is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,135
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmfarley View Post
Well, you're right. I am assuming Vancouver on the map is Vancouver Washington... which is right across the river from Portland. But that begs the question... why Vancouver WA when it IS right across the river! I'd sub Seattle for Vancouver WA.

There is direct train connections to as far north as Vancouver Canada... the Coast Starlight terminates in Seattle. The intention is therfore, Vancouver Washington.
Which is unlikely since nobody outside of the PNW knows about Vancouver WA.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1022  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 2:28 AM
BrianSac's Avatar
BrianSac BrianSac is offline
CHACUN SON GOÛT
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,646
Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg View Post
Because you're used to me looking at the bigger picture, and my preference for pragmatism over unreachable idealism? *shrug*
What is more pragmatic? Building 70 miles of track from Merced to Sacramento and reaching close to 3,000,000 people now, or waiting 10-25yrs and spending 10 times the amount.

Again, I am surprised that a train-rail buff like you thinks nothing of leaving out Sacramento or making us wait 10-25yrs to be directly connected to the first HSR system in the United States.
__________________
C'est le moment ou jamais
C'est facile comme tout

Last edited by BrianSac; Jul 22, 2008 at 7:06 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1023  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 3:08 AM
yeah215 yeah215 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 228
I have a question. This may have already been addressed, but I wasn't able to easily find it.

Will there be a train that runs from San Diego to San Francisco? It seems that one would have to transfer. Does that really make sense? I would think there would be an express train that would run San Diego, Los Angeles, San Francisco. Wouldn't that make sense?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1024  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 3:20 AM
J_Taylor's Avatar
J_Taylor J_Taylor is offline
S.F. needs more Neon.
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Eurtweeka,CA
Posts: 668
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeah215 View Post
I have a question. This may have already been addressed, but I wasn't able to easily find it.

Will there be a train that runs from San Diego to San Francisco? It seems that one would have to transfer. Does that really make sense? I would think there would be an express train that would run San Diego, Los Angeles, San Francisco. Wouldn't that make sense?
It would and I am going to make an assumption that you can. If not then it will be a very quick transfer at LA, no big deal.
__________________
Jay Taylor
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1025  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 4:47 AM
Smiley Person's Avatar
Smiley Person Smiley Person is offline
of the bay area
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Berkeley
Posts: 1,481
Yeah, I agree, it ought to be Seattle... I suppose I included Portland and Vancouver since I knew people from both cities but no one from Seattle.

Is there anyone from the Valley who can comment on the "And never smell the cows of I-5 again" line? Or, can anyone suggest another funny line to replace it?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1026  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 5:18 AM
peanut gallery's Avatar
peanut gallery peanut gallery is offline
Only Mostly Dead
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Marin
Posts: 5,234
Since everyone speeds up and down I5, checking every onramp and looking in their mirrors: "And never worry about the CHP again."

Or maybe a safety issue: "And never worry about the Tule fog again." Or: "And never worry about dodging the semi-trucks again."

PS: great job on the flyer!
__________________
My other car is a Dakota Creek Advanced Multihull Design.

Tiburon Miami 1 Miami 2 Ye Olde San Francisco SF: Canyons, waterfront... SF: South FiDi SF: South Park
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1027  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 5:45 AM
bmfarley's Avatar
bmfarley bmfarley is offline
Long-Time Californian
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: California; All Over
Posts: 1,302
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeah215 View Post
I have a question. This may have already been addressed, but I wasn't able to easily find it.

Will there be a train that runs from San Diego to San Francisco? It seems that one would have to transfer. Does that really make sense? I would think there would be an express train that would run San Diego, Los Angeles, San Francisco. Wouldn't that make sense?
Past literature described 5 different lines. AS I recall they are/were:

LA - SF
LA - Sacramento
SD - SF
SD - Sacramento
SF - Sacramento

I believe these were cited in the original business plan; dated circa 2003 or 2004.

Below is copied/pasted from the Final Program EIR/EIS Report: Volume 1. Not very telling, but does speak to service levels. Of note, I have seen similarly described literature at the same web site, but with different numbers. 21 instead of 12 for semi-express and local. Typo's?


Quote:
2.6.2 Conceptual Service Plan

To satisfy the travel time, service quality, and ridership goals (representative demand) developed for the Business Plan, and accounting for the general characteristics of the corridors considered, a conceptual service plan was developed that would provide a wide variety of service options. A mix of express, semiexpress, local, and regional trains would serve both intercity passengers and long-distance commuters.

In order for HST service to be economically viable, the plan provides frequent and efficient operations. In 2020, a total of 86 weekday trains in each direction would be provided to serve the statewide intercity travel market. Sixty-four of the trains would run between northern and southern California, and the remaining 22 trains would serve shorter distance markets. The basic service pattern provides most passenger service between 6 a.m. and 8 p.m., with a few trains starting or finishing trips beyond these hours. Eighty-six trains per day could be a highly frequent operation; however, as shown below, when divided into 5 levels of service the frequency is greatly reduced. Frequencies would be further reduced in order to serve multiple end points. For example, for HST service between northern and southern California through the Central Valley, some trains would go to the Bay Area, and others to Sacramento. Therefore, while there could be 12 local trains, only a portion of these would serve each endpoint. The following five types of intercity trains are planned.

• Express (20 trains per day): Trains running between Sacramento, San Jose, or San Francisco and Los Angeles or San Diego without intermediate stops.

• Semi-Express (12 trains per day): Trains running between Sacramento, San Jose, or San Francisco and Los Angeles and San Diego with intermediate stops at major Central Valley cities such as Modesto, Fresno, and Bakersfield.

• Suburban-Express (20 trains per day): Trains running between northern and southern California and locally within the major metropolitan areas (i.e., the San Francisco Bay Area and the Los Angeles area) at the beginning and end of the trip without intermediate stops in the Central Valley.

• Local (12 trains per day): Trains stopping at all stations. Some of these local trains might ultimately be operated as a “skip stop” or semi-express service, where trains would stop at only a portion of the possible stations on a specific line, to improve the service and better match patterns of demand.

• Regional (22 trains per day): Sacramento to San Francisco service and early morning service from the Central Valley to San Francisco or Los Angeles/San Diego.

See the Final Program EIR/EIS Report: Volume 1 for more of the 97 page document. The above is on page 2-25 (pdf pg 25).
__________________
- Think Big, Go Big. Think small, stay small.
- Don't get sucked into a rabbit's hole.
- Freeways build sprawl. Transit builds cities.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1028  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 4:36 PM
subterranean subterranean is offline
Registered Ugly
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Portland
Posts: 3,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmfarley View Post
Well, you're right. I am assuming Vancouver on the map is Vancouver Washington... which is right across the river from Portland. But that begs the question... why Vancouver WA when it IS right across the river! I'd sub Seattle for Vancouver WA.

There is NO direct train connections to as far north as Vancouver Canada... the Coast Starlight terminates in Seattle. The intention is therfore, Vancouver Washington.

It should be cleared up, imo.

They definitely mean Vancouver, BC, because the text is larger than Portland's. Perhaps they are simply illustrating that this could be international. Next on the agenda: Rosarito, Baja, Mexico.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1029  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 7:05 PM
Fusey's Avatar
Fusey Fusey is offline
Repeat!
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 5,496
Nah, might as well go all the way to Cabo.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1030  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 7:42 PM
rocketman_95046's Avatar
rocketman_95046 rocketman_95046 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: SD/SJ, CA, USA
Posts: 1,879
SFCityscape has drawn a great map of the potential system when completed. (please see SFCityscape's note regarding the regional rail portion of the map)



http://www.sfcityscape.com/

__________________
1,000 posts and still going...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1031  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 9:33 PM
LosAngelesSportsFan's Avatar
LosAngelesSportsFan LosAngelesSportsFan is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 7,849
beautiful map!!! god i wish this passes.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1032  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 10:25 PM
bmfarley's Avatar
bmfarley bmfarley is offline
Long-Time Californian
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: California; All Over
Posts: 1,302
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketman_95046 View Post
SFCityscape has drawn a great map of the potential system when completed. (please see SFCityscape's note regarding the regional rail portion of the map)


http://www.sfcityscape.com/
Nice Map! Except San Diego needs a Coaster symbol and I'd like to know the rationale for not depicting a line from Sacramento to San Francisco? I could probably guess... and guess correctly; but I'd like to see something from the SFCity peeps.

And, if it is not an official CHSRA map... I suggest that their logo at top right be removed.
__________________
- Think Big, Go Big. Think small, stay small.
- Don't get sucked into a rabbit's hole.
- Freeways build sprawl. Transit builds cities.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1033  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 10:38 PM
Gordo's Avatar
Gordo Gordo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Seattle, WA/San Francisco, CA/Jackson Hole, WY
Posts: 4,201
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmfarley View Post
Nice Map! Except San Diego needs a Coaster symbol and I'd like to know the rationale for not depicting a line from Sacramento to San Francisco? I could probably guess... and guess correctly; but I'd like to see something from the SFCity peeps.
I'm guessing it's because the likelihood of a Dumbarton high speed rail bridge is pretty low. Most likely any train going from SF to Sac would be routed through SJ anyway - even if the Altamont route is eventually built. Scheduling of trains may not necessarily have a stop in SJ (an express SF to Sac train for example), but they would go through SJ.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1034  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2008, 12:22 AM
jamesinclair jamesinclair is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiley Person View Post
Is there anyone from the Valley who can comment on the "And never smell the cows of I-5 again" line? Or, can anyone suggest another funny line to replace it?

I dont get the line. The 99, which the line will follow, smells the same as the 5. Only difference is, the 99 has actual civilization, while the 5 will make you question what state youre driving through.

Also, yesterday I drove from Fresno to San Jose through Gilroy. I have no idea where they plan on sticking the train. The highway goes from 6 lanes to 2 in parts because of the mountains.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1035  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2008, 12:37 AM
Gordo's Avatar
Gordo Gordo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Seattle, WA/San Francisco, CA/Jackson Hole, WY
Posts: 4,201
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesinclair View Post
Also, yesterday I drove from Fresno to San Jose through Gilroy. I have no idea where they plan on sticking the train. The highway goes from 6 lanes to 2 in parts because of the mountains.
Tunnels and bridges and the like.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1036  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2008, 12:46 AM
bmfarley's Avatar
bmfarley bmfarley is offline
Long-Time Californian
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: California; All Over
Posts: 1,302
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesinclair View Post
I dont get the line. The 99, which the line will follow, smells the same as the 5. Only difference is, the 99 has actual civilization, while the 5 will make you question what state youre driving through.

Also, yesterday I drove from Fresno to San Jose through Gilroy. I have no idea where they plan on sticking the train. The highway goes from 6 lanes to 2 in parts because of the mountains.
The Gilroy to San jose HSR section would be adjacent to existing rail ROW....not the freeway. And as Gordo said... tunnels and bridges through the mountains.
__________________
- Think Big, Go Big. Think small, stay small.
- Don't get sucked into a rabbit's hole.
- Freeways build sprawl. Transit builds cities.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1037  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2008, 4:45 AM
peanut gallery's Avatar
peanut gallery peanut gallery is offline
Only Mostly Dead
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Marin
Posts: 5,234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordo View Post
I'm guessing it's because the likelihood of a Dumbarton high speed rail bridge is pretty low. Most likely any train going from SF to Sac would be routed through SJ anyway - even if the Altamont route is eventually built. Scheduling of trains may not necessarily have a stop in SJ (an express SF to Sac train for example), but they would go through SJ.
That and the Amtrak lines are limited to Capital Corridor and San Joaquin, both of which go to SJ. I assume this is because the California Zepher, which is what currently runs to SF (by way of busses from Emeryville), will not be high-speed.
__________________
My other car is a Dakota Creek Advanced Multihull Design.

Tiburon Miami 1 Miami 2 Ye Olde San Francisco SF: Canyons, waterfront... SF: South FiDi SF: South Park
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1038  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2008, 3:56 AM
Smiley Person's Avatar
Smiley Person Smiley Person is offline
of the bay area
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Berkeley
Posts: 1,481
Made the change from Vancouver to Seattle, and replaced the line about the cows with "It's life at 220 mph - without the speeding tickets."



If anyone wants copies to distribute please let me know.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1039  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2008, 5:47 AM
JDRCRASH JDRCRASH is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Gabriel Valley
Posts: 8,087


It even shows the High Speed Maglev rail lines proposed to Phoenix and Las Vegas!!!
__________________
Revelation 21:4
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1040  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2008, 8:09 AM
Reminiscence's Avatar
Reminiscence Reminiscence is offline
Green Berniecrat
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Richmond/Eureka, CA
Posts: 1,689
Thats a nice map there, good job. Personally, I'd be happy if even one of those lines becomes reality. I'd like to see how they propose reaching Reno on HSR though, seems like a challenge and a costly one at that.
__________________
Reject the lesser evil and fight for the greater good like our lives depend on it, because they do!
-- Dr. Jill Stein, 2016 Green Party Presidential Candidate
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Pacific West
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:22 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.