[Saint John] Irving Oil HQ - Kings Square South | 59m | 11 Floors | U/C

[UptownJeff]

Originally Posted by kwajo

There are a number of property dealings going on nearby to this project as well, from the sale and subsequent closure of the large parking lot between the provincial courthouse and fire department HQ, to the possible demolition of 38 Sydney Street [across the street from the Irving HQ]. Not sure exactly what is going on, but there could be a parking structure proposal in the works, although word in the neighbourhood seem to vary depending on who one talks to.

Also, I know Jim's appeal has proven to be unpopular - at least with those who have become outspoken about the project - and while I want to see this building go up and not go added to the long list of dead Saint John projects, I think some of the preceding posts are treading too far into the realm of personal insults when the real debate surrounds the merits of both the building's design and the process for approvals in at both the municipal and provincial levels.

I agree that this has certainly become an emotional issue but as you say, it has highlighted the need for a re-examination of both the heritage and building issues Uptown. This is the first I've heard of the sale and closure of the parking lot behind Fire HQ. Any further info on this? That's a big spot and would cause issues for snow bans in the area but would make sense for an IO parking garage and I suppose it could still be used for snow bans. Also, 38 Sydney - the Konica Minolta Building? I thought this would also be a heritage property? Should be interesting to see what happens!

[kwajo]

Originally Posted by UptownJeff

I agree that this has certainly become an emotional issue but as you say, it has highlighted the need for a re-examination of both the heritage and building issues Uptown. This is the first I've heard of the sale and closure of the parking lot behind Fire HQ. Any further info on this? That's a big spot and would cause issues for snow bans in the area but would make sense for an IO parking garage and I suppose it could still be used for snow bans. Also, 38 Sydney - the Konica Minolta Building? I thought this would also be a heritage property? Should be interesting to see what happens!

The parking lot was a surprise to me as well, but all the permit holders were apparently given less than a month notice and told to find other spots by May 2nd, and if you look at the site now all the parking signage has been removed entirely. Clearly something is happening, but I haven't heard a firm plan from anyone.

You are indeed thinking of the same building, and yes it is in the Trinity Royal preservation district so I have no idea how anyone could get approval to demolish it - plus it seems in good shape structurally from the outside. I wouldn't have posted about it normally, but I heard this from someone who owns the adjoining buildings, so it seemed credible (although they too could be misinformed). Saint John Energy also recently placed those bright orange powerline covers on the lines running beside the building in question, which lends credence to the idea that some sort of work is imminent.

[UptownJeff]

Originally Posted by kwajo

The parking lot was a surprise to me as well, but all the permit holders were apparently given less than a month notice and told to find other spots by May 2nd, and if you look at the site now all the parking signage has been removed entirely. Clearly something is happening, but I haven't heard a firm plan from anyone.

You are indeed thinking of the same building, and yes it is in the Trinity Royal preservation district so I have no idea how anyone could get approval to demolish it - plus it seems in good shape structurally from the outside. I wouldn't have posted about it normally, but I heard this from someone who owns the adjoining buildings, so it seemed credible (although they too could be misinformed). Saint John Energy also recently placed those bright orange powerline covers on the lines running beside the building in question, which lends credence to the idea that some sort of work is imminent.

Interesting. I live on the next block over and I was looking at 38 Sydney today - wondering if the demo might be specific to the structures behind it running along Leinster? There's a smallish warehouse type building there now.

UPDATE: I just called the parking commission - they confirmed that they"lost" this lot as well as 4 others. Apparently they don't own the lots - they just maintain them. So, looks like this may be related to the new HQ.

[cdnguys]

There was a white apartment building on King Street East torn down by JDI last week in a heritage area. They were required to put the property up for sale for 6 months on MLS to see if anyone else wanted to save it. There were no takers so it got torn down (I assume to add to their new parking lot). Point is there is no such proposal before the city to demolish corner of Sydney and Leinster. I think we would of heard about it. There is no indication either that the tenants are moving. My friend lives in the apartment building next door and they are under the impression Irving is going to build a whole complex in the parking lot incorporating the buildings along Sydney. I pushed for details but she didn't know - she didn't take interest in her source like I would have.

[UptownJeff]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

There was a white apartment building on King Street East torn down by JDI last week in a heritage area. They were required to put the property up for sale for 6 months on MLS to see if anyone else wanted to save it. There were no takers so it got torn down (I assume to add to their new parking lot). Point is there is no such proposal before the city to demolish corner of Sydney and Leinster. I think we would of heard about it. There is no indication either that the tenants are moving. My friend lives in the apartment building next door and they are under the impression Irving is going to build a whole complex in the parking lot incorporating the buildings along Sydney. I pushed for details but she didn't know - she didn't take interest in her source like I would have.

Yes, I'm sure we would have heard about that too!! A parkade behind Sydney makes sense and knowing them, I'm certain it will look good too. It'll certainly clean up Leinster street.

[kwajo]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

There was a white apartment building on King Street East torn down by JDI last week in a heritage area. They were required to put the property up for sale for 6 months on MLS to see if anyone else wanted to save it. There were no takers so it got torn down (I assume to add to their new parking lot). Point is there is no such proposal before the city to demolish corner of Sydney and Leinster. I think we would of heard about it. There is no indication either that the tenants are moving. My friend lives in the apartment building next door and they are under the impression Irving is going to build a whole complex in the parking lot incorporating the buildings along Sydney. I pushed for details but she didn't know - she didn't take interest in her source like I would have.

There is a lot of misinformation floating around to be sure. I was speaking to Hazen Apartments just last week about their buildings on Sydney (they own all the ones between the old courthouse and 38) and they told me they have been getting calls from tenants wondering if they are going to be evicted based on rumours of sale, but they have not sold the buildings and plan on continuing to rent them and maintain the status quo.

[JHikka]

I fear Uptown has enough parking garages as is (Four, if you include Prince Edward Square). Surely something can be done to either provide for underground parking incorporated into the new HQ or to better connect the current parking garage facilities with the new building in question. I'm not against a parking garage located on the parking lot next to the fire station off of Sydney but I think more could have been done to look at underground parking facilities.

That is, unless heritage bylaws (or otherwise) prevent that from happening.

[uptownres]

I live next door to the white house on King St E that was demolished this week. Parking spots have been painted on the gravel that they spread over the site, and the spots have been numbered. Such a shame - empty surface parking like this really makes our neighbourhood look awful.

It astonishes me that there is still a perception that what uptown needs is more parking. I can routinely find parking within a block or two of the uptown business I'm hoping to go to.

[UptownJeff]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I fear Uptown has enough parking garages as is (Four, if you include Prince Edward Square). Surely something can be done to either provide for underground parking incorporated into the new HQ or to better connect the current parking garage facilities with the new building in question. I'm not against a parking garage located on the parking lot next to the fire station off of Sydney but I think more could have been done to look at underground parking facilities.

That is, unless heritage bylaws (or otherwise) prevent that from happening.

I suspect that a number of surface lots will be lost - those behind the Imperial on Princess, the spot where the IO HQ will stand and the lot where the new NBLC store will go - not a bad thing in my mind. A well designed structure behind the Fire HQ would be a welcome addition and this, combined with the other structures mentioned should accommodate the needs of Uptown nicely. I'm no expert but I would think that underground parking for the IO HQ would be cost prohibitive - we're sitting on solid rock here.

While I am sorry to see the structure on King Street East come down, I would also like to think that JDI will turn that and the other surface lots into something attractive.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by uptownres

It astonishes me that there is still a perception that what uptown needs is more parking. I can routinely find parking within a block or two of the uptown business I'm hoping to go to.

A block or two is simply too far. If you can't park within direct eyesight and within twenty steps it's too difficult to be feasible.

Originally Posted by UptownJeff

I suspect that a number of surface lots will be lost - those behind the Imperial on Princess, the spot where the IO HQ will stand and the lot where the new NBLC store will go - not a bad thing in my mind. A well designed structure behind the Fire HQ would be a welcome addition and this, combined with the other structures mentioned should accommodate the needs of Uptown nicely. I'm no expert but I would think that underground parking for the IO HQ would be cost prohibitive - we're sitting on solid rock here.

How many above-ground parking garages have you seen that have been well designed and aesthetically pleasing? I'm actually genuinely curious because most that I have seen are concrete eyesores and have dreadful street front presence. Peel Street is actually one of the few examples of a parking garage with above average street front presence due mostly to it being on a hill. Brunswick Square? Not so much.

Cost prohibitive? Irving Group of Companies?

[UptownJeff]

How many above-ground parking garages have you seen that have been well designed and aesthetically pleasing? I'm actually genuinely curious because most that I have seen are concrete eyesores and have dreadful street front presence. Peel Street is actually one of the few examples of a parking garage with above average street front presence due mostly to it being on a hill. Brunswick Square? Not so much.

Cost prohibitive? Irving Group of Companies? [/QUOTE]

Very true. But I'm hopeful that it will have a "historic" look....maybe brick facade etc. At any rate it beats a slab of asphalt in my opinion. Also, that block of Leinster is not the prettiest with the school and fire department.

As for cost, again I'm no expert but I've heard that the work involved in general for underground parking is crazy and I have no idea what would be involved as I think it sits on solid rock....blasting? Also, was thinking of access and from what I can see it would have to be in and out on Princess which could be a pretty congested area. Thinking that with a complex on Leinster, there would be access from both Leinster and King east.

What I am confident about is that based on the superior look of the HQ I'm certain that any associated developments will be in the same vein.

[UptownJeff]

Any news on this? Would love to see a big billboard on the site saying something like "future home of....." With a big photo of the building!

[kwajo]

Originally Posted by UptownJeff

Very true. But I'm hopeful that it will have a "historic" look....maybe brick facade etc. At any rate it beats a slab of asphalt in my opinion. Also, that block of Leinster is not the prettiest with the school and fire department.

As for cost, again I'm no expert but I've heard that the work involved in general for underground parking is crazy and I have no idea what would be involved as I think it sits on solid rock....blasting? Also, was thinking of access and from what I can see it would have to be in and out on Princess which could be a pretty congested area. Thinking that with a complex on Leinster, there would be access from both Leinster and King east.

What I am confident about is that based on the superior look of the HQ I'm certain that any associated developments will be in the same vein.

That's the trouble though, if they infill the lot with a parking structure that has no street presence, it will continue to make that block of Leinster a wasteland and divide the residential neighbourhood from the commercial core, when really they need to be bridged closer together. A parking structure could be fine if it had rental units incorporated, and/or storefronts along King St East or Leinster for lease, then I would be 100% in favour of it.

[kwajo]

Just to further the talk of the area, I checked the property ownership maps and the building at 38 Sydney is now owned by the same numbered corporation as the Chipman Hill building on the corner of Sydney and Princess that is a part of the IOL site, so I'm assuming it is Irving Oil, maybe they're just planning on using it as a construction office?

No activity on site of the HQ yet, I'm sure it'll blow up all over social media and coffee shop chatter as soon as any work begins, that type of thing is always big gossip around Saint John.

[UptownJeff]

Article in the TJ tonite. Needs to go before the heritage brd one more time and barring any hiccups construction could begin early June!

[UptownJeff]

Originally Posted by UptownJeff

Article in the TJ tonite. Needs to go before the heritage brd one more time and barring any hiccups construction could begin early June!

Heritage board just re-approved building. One step closer.

[UptownJeff]

This is an interesting article on building codes etc in New York.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...oday.html?_r=0

[UptownJeff]

Originally Posted by kwajo

That's the trouble though, if they infill the lot with a parking structure that has no street presence, it will continue to make that block of Leinster a wasteland and divide the residential neighbourhood from the commercial core, when really they need to be bridged closer together. A parking structure could be fine if it had rental units incorporated, and/or storefronts along King St East or Leinster for lease, then I would be 100% in favour of it.

Storefronts or rental units on Leinster would be problematic in my opinion. The school really is a problem....kids, buses....very busy. I live behind the school on Princess and if I knew then what I know now! Something on the king street side would be interesting....I could see residential and or commercial working there.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by UptownJeff

Storefronts or rental units on Leinster would be problematic in my opinion. The school really is a problem....kids, buses....very busy. I live behind the school on Princess and if I knew then what I know now! Something on the king street side would be interesting....I could see residential and or commercial working there.

One of the schools in the Saint John area is likely going to have to be closed in the impending future, perhaps St. Malachy's would be that school. HVHS services West SJ, SJHS services North/South, and Simonds services East SJ. STM is sort of hung out to dry.

It's odd how on one hand you complain about schoolchildren making an area too busy but then wish for more people to be living and moving to the Uptown which would, by virtue, make everything more busy. I'm confused. How are these schoolchildren a detriment to your living space? As a former alumni of St. Malachy's i'm actually curious because I rarely if ever stepped onto Princess Street. The vast majority of foot traffic, which i'm guessing is your complaint, is directed towards King's Square and Sydney Street.

I would be completely in favour of storefronts and integrated residential units on Leinster and/or King Street East.

[UptownJeff]

Originally Posted by JHikka

One of the schools in the Saint John area is likely going to have to be closed in the impending future, perhaps St. Malachy's would be that school. HVHS services West SJ, SJHS services North/South, and Simonds services East SJ. STM is sort of hung out to dry.

It's odd how on one hand you complain about schoolchildren making an area too busy but then wish for more people to be living and moving to the Uptown which would, by virtue, make everything more busy. I'm confused. How are these schoolchildren a detriment to your living space? As a former alumni of St. Malachy's i'm actually curious because I rarely if ever stepped onto Princess Street. The vast majority of foot traffic, which i'm guessing is your complaint, is directed towards King's Square and Sydney Street.

I would be completely in favour of storefronts and integrated residential units on Leinster and/or King Street East.

Well, I speak from experience. I'm not suggesting all students are a problem but they take up residential street parking all day, have no respect for residents in that they throw their garbage all over princess street....McDonald's, tims, you name it.....loitering between houses and in front of mine smoking and just throwing their butts on the sidewalk etc. I've complained to the principal on many occasions with absolutely no response. Again, not all but enough to make it a challenge to be a homeowner. Yeah, I know, I sound like a grumpy old man but it's tiring! I wouldn't want my residence across from the main entrance on Leinster......it's worse over there. Now on King, yes....that would work.