Wanting Nice Things and Discrimination

[s211]

Originally Posted by CMD UW

While I've seen a fair share of punks loitering the halls of City Centre, I personally haven't experienced anything of the sort. Perhaps there are 'hot zones' that need to be dealt with.

When I visit Edmonton, I struggle to understand how City Centre has let itself crumble into some sort of distopian "lord of the flies", especially the original (east) portion of the mall.

[Edit: please note that my post was in reply to another post and that I did not create the name of this thread.]

[Rocket252]

An aggressive downtown enforcement plan is needed or any gains made drawing people to live downtown will be gone.

The Churchill square/Library corner is the worst

[SHOFEAR]

Originally Posted by s211

When I visit Edmonton, I struggle to understand how City Centre has let itself crumble into some sort of distopian "lord of the flies", especially the original (east) portion of the mall.

social/poverty activists. That's why.

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by Rocket252

An aggressive downtown enforcement plan is needed or any gains made drawing people to live downtown will be gone.

The Churchill square/Library corner is the worst

EPS, Sheriffs and our downtown officers have made an impact in those areas, but still not enough. We really do need to address the situation for it does indeed set us back. That said, more people in the area will assist with this issue as other things open.

[Hallsy's Toupee]

I've witnessed more riff raff in the downtown pedway system. But some of the buildings, such as Commerce Place, Manulife and City Centre, have increased their security presence.

[Coldrsx]

Vinesh Pratap from Global has been following either SSP or C2E with regards to crime, vandalism, disorder posts and has requested an interview with DECL.

[Daveography]

Originally Posted by s211

When I visit Edmonton, I struggle to understand how City Centre has let itself crumble into some sort of distopian "lord of the flies", especially the original (east) portion of the mall.

Now you're just being overly dramatic.

The real key of course is to keep working on the underlying social causes: breaking the cycles of poverty, homelessness, and substance abuse, and ensuring education and social programs continue to be available and promoted. At some point we have to recognize these things actually cost us all far less than the impacts of crime and policing and in the process making our city safer and more inclusive.

[s211]

Originally Posted by Daveography

Now you're just being overly dramatic.

The real key of course is to keep working on the underlying social causes: breaking the cycles of poverty, homelessness, and substance abuse, and ensuring education and social programs continue to be available and promoted. At some point we have to recognize these things actually cost us all far less than the impacts of crime and policing and in the process making our city safer and more inclusive.

Dramatic? To make a point, of course.

City Centre is not a happy place to shop. It looks and feels left adrift, it really does. And when things are left adrift, good things rarely happen.

[Daveography]

^ Can you expand on that? I must be shopping at a different Edmonton City Centre than you, your experiences make it sound like you accidentally wandered into Millbourne Mall or something.

[s211]

Originally Posted by Daveography

^ Can you expand on that? I must be shopping at a different Edmonton City Centre than you, your experiences make it sound like you accidentally wandered into Millbourne Mall or something.

The look and feel of City Centre east feels dark and uninviting. The unfortunate west entrance, with the bus stop outside, feels like a Greyhound waiting area. The disjointed flow between floors results in circuitous foot traffic. The lack of meaningful retail outlets in CC East makes it more of a place to walk through to keep warm than go to and shop.

The number of dodgy people purely loitering about in the mall and lack of meaningful security presence doesn't exactly encourage one to linger and shop. And where the heck do all the low-end gangsta wannabees come from?

Compared to Calgary's downtown mall, Edmonton's City Centre mall isn't even in the same league. It's like MLB versus the farm team, on a good day. Or compare each city's Holt Renfrew. Night and day.

Not saying Calgary's Core is the be all and end all, but side-by-side, ECC is as embarrassing as can be. It does not sell Edmonton favourably.

I've known and lived Edmonton Centre since the days of Phase 1, even before the central court opened. What was once a flourishing, vibrant mall now feels like it's on permanent life support, and forgot to sign a DNR form.

[Coldrsx]

^kinda unfair no? City Centre recently went through a multi multi million dollar reno/expansion, versus a tired old mall with a transit hub.

[Hallsy's Toupee]

^ What recent reno? you mean the one from 15 years ago? The lipstick-on-pig job last summer? There is supposedly a major renovation to be announced soon, can't wait for that.

[Coldrsx]

City Centre Calgary ie. the Core.

[Daveography]

Comparing City Centre to The Core in Calgary is a bit unfair; the reality is that the demographics in downtown Calgary versus downtown Edmonton are very different. That said, I think it's been suggested here that some more renos at City Centre are on the horizon.

CCE isn't perfect, no, but it's nowhere near as dire as you make it sound, nor would I describe it anywhere near being "on permanent life support" - it's always quite busy (with actual shoppers, even) during the day, with a fine selection and variety of retailers and few vacancies.

The 101 Street entrances are a bit iffy, I'll give you that. Moving the emergency doors to the sidewalk rather than being inset has made a bit of a difference at least.

As to the "dodgy people", that's a tricky one to address, isn't it? Our prejudices tend to play a bigger role in that feeling, I think, and security acting on them has gotten Oxford into some trouble, and rightfully so. Security is better off dealing with actual incidents than profiling the people loitering around just because they make us feel uncomfortable.

[GreenSPACE]

^+1

[Black Star]

Originally Posted by s211

The look and feel of City Centre east feels dark and uninviting. The unfortunate west entrance, with the bus stop outside, feels like a Greyhound waiting area. The disjointed flow between floors results in circuitous foot traffic. The lack of meaningful retail outlets in CC East makes it more of a place to walk through to keep warm than go to and shop.

The number of dodgy people purely loitering about in the mall and lack of meaningful security presence doesn't exactly encourage one to linger and shop. And where the heck do all the low-end gangsta wannabees come from?

Compared to Calgary's downtown mall, Edmonton's City Centre mall isn't even in the same league. It's like MLB versus the farm team, on a good day. Or compare each city's Holt Renfrew. Night and day.

Not saying Calgary's Core is the be all and end all, but side-by-side, ECC is as embarrassing as can be. It does not sell Edmonton favourably.

I've known and lived Edmonton Centre since the days of Phase 1, even before the central court opened. What was once a flourishing, vibrant mall now feels like it's on permanent life support, and forgot to sign a DNR form.

You nailed it.

[Hallsy's Toupee]

The City Centre Mall revamp can't come soon enough. All them empty bays are depressing. As I mentioned a couple of weeks ago in the Retail thread, I asked them about their promised mega-reno and they said an announcement should be coming soon.

[SHOFEAR]

I'm I out to lunch when i say that it's very possible that the Dollar Store is the busiest store in the mall? maaaybe second after the Bay?

And that right there is the problem.

Chicken and egg I guess.

[CMD UW]

Originally Posted by Daveography

^ Can you expand on that? I must be shopping at a different Edmonton City Centre than you, your experiences make it sound like you accidentally wandered into Millbourne Mall or something.

I agree. While CC needs a make over, it doesn't feel like it's adrift. And I'm in the mall daily.

[EdmTrekker]

There are some that can't talk about cc redevelopment without mentioning Calgary. These are crotch watchers...worried what is between their legs does not compare with what the next guy has. Get over it already...and talk about EDMONTON. Your dick won't get any bigger.