AUSTIN | Projects & Construction III

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by lzppjb

Like has been mentioned before and it's something I like...

If a car passes both 130 exits (north and south of town) on I-35 in a set amount of time (thru traffic), they get tolled. If they don't pass both, or it takes longer than a set time that accounts for slow traffic, then they are in-town traffic and would not be tolled.

That would hit truckers and travelers blasting through town, but not hit the wallets of locals and commuters.

Oh that's smart. I would have never thought about that.

[SecretAgentMan]

Originally Posted by migol24

I thought this was already proposed a few years ago. Even that one future skyline illustration from Imagine Austin in 2039 shows I-35 covered up. I'm too lazy to look up that photo but I'm sure it's there.

It isn't a new idea at all. The City did a very detailed study of this in conjunction with TxDOT over 10 years ago. But, to give full credit where it is due, it was also Sinclair's idea through the DAA that spurred on that earlier study.

[ROCrot]

Originally Posted by lzppjb

Like has been mentioned before and it's something I like...

If a car passes both 130 exits (north and south of town) on I-35 in a set amount of time (thru traffic), they get tolled. If they don't pass both, or it takes longer than a set time that accounts for slow traffic, then they are in-town traffic and would not be tolled.

That would hit truckers and travelers blasting through town, but not hit the wallets of locals and commuters.

One major problem with this idea. That means everything and everyone driving on that portion of I35 would have to have some kind of toll tag, and/or TxDOT (or whoever) would have to have some way of charging every vehicle and actually collect it.

[MichaelB]

Originally Posted by lzppjb

I suggested this just about a week ago.



http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=2995

I do wish that would happen. Like SecretAgentMan said , Actually it is an option that has been kicked around for years. Always ends up getting passed by beause of cost.....
But something big and creative needs to happen that does not just put a bigger barrier in the middle of town.
Note:
"Sinclair Black" is who he is refering to..... of "Black and Vemooy. That man has truly been a pioneer in this city. He owns most of the north side of 4th street between Colorado and Lavaca. His offices are there as well. I met him back in the dark ages when Fado was a Theatre!.... I was a child of course.

[AusTex]

Sinclair Black has been talking about this for years...Decision Makers are not listening.

The City of Austin needs to get off the pot and DECIDE what needs to be done and STRONGLY repeat this message...over and...over...again.

The following link is from 2008...seven years ago and lists this idea as "Sinking I-35 (not executed)". The idea is much older.


http://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2008-03-28/606169/

[KevinFromTexas]

It seems like every idea that is thrown out there, though, is heavily contested by all the various types of contrarians in this city. And of course nothing is ever done quickly unless it's a sure thing that millions can be made by multiple parties. Of course, this is one of those situations where a lot of money could be made for the City of Austin and Travis County through property taxes from the newly created land. And it would give developers more developable land. I think eventually it'll happen. Developers, architects and engineers will have to push the issue, along with the City of Austin, realizing it would be a new source of property tax revenue. Downtown isn't infinite, and we also have the capitol view corridors which limit height and density. It's going to get to a point to where we have to ask, are we going to mow down neighborhoods like what happened for the Capitol complex and UT Campus 50 to 100 years ago, or are we going to stifle development and as a consequence, the economy? Historical preservation would also no doubt suffer and lose out since developers would snap up remaining low density properties and tear down historic buildings. But don't offer any of this as rational points for the argument of supporting this on say, the Statesman.com comments sections.

[priller]

Originally Posted by lzppjb

btw...$550 million? I'd rather have this than the rail project for the same price.

Doesn't that price tag seem a bit optimistic??

[lzppjb]

Yes it does. But it's optimistic for the rail too, most likely.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by priller

Doesn't that price tag seem a bit optimistic??

No, that price tag is almost certainly ballpark. This is a very simple project for which a successful execution has nowhere near the engineering complexity of projects such as the Big Dig or similar projects whose scales were much larger.

This is a 25 block project - 15 blocks between Cesar Chavez and 15th, the couple of blocks between the river and Cesar Chavez, and the reconfigurations of the entrances and exits to the new tunnel - at most, whereas other projects such as the Big Dig are of significantly larger scale.

Additionally, there would be no worry about water leaks (not even the river would pose this problem as there it doesn't exert the same pressure as an entire ocean) or degradation from salt erosion such as there were in Boston, removing significant problems of complexity. Our soil and ground composition actually works in our favor here, as the limestone bedding helps maintain structural integrity over the long-term.

There's also the fact that the project is almost entirely straight - and a single tunnel - whereas the Big Dig was a complex system of ramps, exits, entrances, multiple major tunnels, that were all intertwined and (pardon the usage here) curvaceous.

What we should be looking at, I think, are projects like the Woodall Rogers deck park (Klyde Warren Park) in Dallas and expanding that cost to include design, excavation, and the resulting deck park in block multiple of Klyde Warren (which is only 3ish blocks - much larger blocks than downtown Austin, though - at just over 80 million). Using that benchmark, I'd estimate a very similar cost, but probably slightly more expensive at around 650 million.

[Jdawgboy]

Originally Posted by Syndic

I mean, it's a very positive idea, but I want to see a full I-35/130 swap. I want to see the current I-35 turned completely into a toll road and have 130 be free. Until that happens, the trucks are not going to take 130. They're going to keep blasting through our city with no regard for anybody who lives here, clogging the streets, driving like assholes. Maybe we could have a system set up whereby Austin metro residents don't have to pay very much (maybe $10 a month, like Spotify or Netflix) and only people passing through Austin have to pay full price.

Even with that, though, there would still be a need to bury the highway. Maybe this is a step in direction of my grand vision? It would certainly do a lot for the downtown area.

That idea would hurt the city economically and cause a massive shift of population east of the city which could potentially kill off the city core. Nobody is going to come to Austin driving 35 if they know its tolled. That's millions and millions of dollars that travelers passing through Austin, for gas, food, hotel stays that would be lost to the city. What we would end up with is 100 miles of sprawl along the current 130 route. If they have toll 35 at all which IMO it shouldn't even be an option, they can toll one or two new additional lanes while adding a 4th free lane.

[KevinFromTexas]

Also water is scarce east of Austin. The Colorado River isn't so mighty east of the city. Encouraging sprawl there would be a bad move for our region's water supply. It's one of the reasons there are so few large communities east of Austin. There isn't enough water over there for them to grow and be sustainable without them embracing urban development that decreases thirsty lawns and impervious asphalt.

[NYC_Longhorn]

EXTRA EXTRA! I bring good news!

http://www.statesman.com/news/busine...o-65-st/nXdk3/

[East7thStreet]

I thought the Sutton guys just downsized their twin 50 story tower proposal to one eight story building? And now they are proposing three towers, one 65 stories, on a lot close by? O.k.... i'll bite.... how tall would a 65 story hotel/condo building be? 780ft -800ft ish?

[lzppjb]

The lot behind IHOP is roughly 3 acres.

If this happens...wow.

[lzppjb]

Originally Posted by East7thStreet

I thought the Sutton guys just downsized their twin 50 story tower proposal to one eight story building? And now they are proposing three towers, one 65 stories, on a lot close by? O.k.... i'll bite.... how tall would a 65 story hotel/condo building be? 780ft -800ft ish?

If the floors average 11.7ft (that's an average of Austonian and Fairmont), then it'd be 780ft to the rooftop.

[East7thStreet]

Originally Posted by lzppjb

The lot behind IHOP is roughly 3 acres.

If this happens...wow.

That would be a great location for a supertall hotel/condo tower but the Statesmen article say the project will be "tentatively called Waller Center — on 3 acres near East Cesar Chavez and Red River streets, along the banks of Waller Creek."

I think they might be referring to the old location of the proposed 21c hotel and condo project. Anybody read the whole article?

[lzppjb]

The lot behind IHOP and the lot across Red River (which is on Waller Creek) were both recently purchased. The lot to the east of RR is about 3 acres. They were probably both bought by Sutton. Just a guess though.

[lzppjb]

EDIT: Nevermind. I think we're talking about the same lots.

[LoneStarMike]

From the map included with the story, the red dot showing where the project is supposed to be looks like it's on the south side of Willow Street west of Red River. The Chain Drive is across the street on the north side of Willow Street.

I think that is roughly the same spot the 21c project was to have been built.

[ahealy]

Originally Posted by LoneStarMike

From the map included with the story, the red dot showing where the project is supposed to be looks like it's on the south side of Willow Street west of Red River. The Chain Drive is across the street on the north side of Willow Street.

I think that is roughly the same spot the 21c project was to have been built.

They better not freakin touch chain drive, or at least include it in the tower