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  #861  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2021, 8:53 PM
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Some of the improvements around Penn Sration, including a train hall on site 2...
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  #862  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2021, 7:15 AM
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The following solution is fool proof: At one time a new enclosed stadium was being considered to be built on a deck to be constructed over the yet to be developed western portion of the hudson yards. That never occurred, but since then, the 7 train extension has been built, the convention center has been expanded and a major retail shopping hub has been built on the eastern portion of hudson yards, making this a 100% accessible by public transportation business destination and playland. SOLUTION: build a new Madison Square Garden on a deck over the western portion of the hudson yards, across the street from the convention center with an underground pedestrian tunnel that connects to the 34th street 7 train station. THEN: Tear down the old Madison Square Garden and 2 Penn Plaza leaving a completely leveled super block from 33rd to 31st Street between 7th and 8th Avenues and build the new above and below ground Penn station there. It's a win win situation. A new Penn Station on the original Penn Station footprint and a new Madison Square Garden in the city's hottest growing business and entertainment hub, all fully accessible by underground public transportation. The only thing in the way is Governor Cuomo's and his cronies egos!
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  #863  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2021, 7:56 PM
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Originally Posted by SammyBaby View Post
The following solution is fool proof: At one time a new enclosed stadium was being considered to be built on a deck to be constructed over the yet to be developed western portion of the hudson yards. That never occurred, but since then, the 7 train extension has been built, the convention center has been expanded and a major retail shopping hub has been built on the eastern portion of hudson yards, making this a 100% accessible by public transportation business destination and playland. SOLUTION: build a new Madison Square Garden on a deck over the western portion of the hudson yards, across the street from the convention center with an underground pedestrian tunnel that connects to the 34th street 7 train station. THEN: Tear down the old Madison Square Garden and 2 Penn Plaza leaving a completely leveled super block from 33rd to 31st Street between 7th and 8th Avenues and build the new above and below ground Penn station there. It's a win win situation. A new Penn Station on the original Penn Station footprint and a new Madison Square Garden in the city's hottest growing business and entertainment hub, all fully accessible by underground public transportation. The only thing in the way is Governor Cuomo's and his cronies egos!

Won't happen. The stadium proposal worked because it was an expansion of the Javits Center, and would host a relatively few number of games on the weekends. MSG is a different animal, with virutually nightly performances. The convenience of NJ Transit, LIRR, multiple subway lines, the PATH, and the coming Metro-North make it the prime site for such an arena, even though it's just a few blocks away.

If they remove MSG, it will just be to replace it with more buildings. A fancy new train terminal built above the station does nothing to expand or improve the station itself, other than appearances (which it sorely needs). There's no reason they can't replace MSG with a new and better designed arena - in its current location.
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  #864  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2021, 9:09 PM
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
Won't happen. The stadium proposal worked because it was an expansion of the Javits Center, and would host a relatively few number of games on the weekends. MSG is a different animal, with virutually nightly performances. The convenience of NJ Transit, LIRR, multiple subway lines, the PATH, and the coming Metro-North make it the prime site for such an arena, even though it's just a few blocks away.

If they remove MSG, it will just be to replace it with more buildings. A fancy new train terminal built above the station does nothing to expand or improve the station itself, other than appearances (which it sorely needs). There's no reason they can't replace MSG with a new and better designed arena - in its current location.
If they could do that, build a better MSG that utilizes a better public experience with the station, I'm all for it. I just hope we've got creative enough people to make it happen. At least the likelihood of the removal of the Hulu Theater would make for a marked improvement.
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  #865  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2021, 9:23 PM
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
Won't happen. The stadium proposal worked because it was an expansion of the Javits Center, and would host a relatively few number of games on the weekends. MSG is a different animal, with virutually nightly performances. The convenience of NJ Transit, LIRR, multiple subway lines, the PATH, and the coming Metro-North make it the prime site for such an arena, even though it's just a few blocks away.

If they remove MSG, it will just be to replace it with more buildings. A fancy new train terminal built above the station does nothing to expand or improve the station itself, other than appearances (which it sorely needs). There's no reason they can't replace MSG with a new and better designed arena - in its current location.
I will be forever annoyed that they could not get the deal to move MSG into the Farley Annex which would have been perfect. Then tear down everything on block 781 to build a new station and provide multiple high rise development sites.
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  #866  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2021, 9:52 PM
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https://nypost.com/2021/03/15/mta-wa...ut-moving-msg/

MTA floats plans to get more light in Penn Station without moving MSG


By David Meyer
March 15, 2021


Quote:
Transit officials are mulling proposals to bring more light into Penn Station’s dreary corridors — without having to move Madison Square Garden, according to a new report.

MTA exec Janno Lieber presented two concepts on Friday to “city, state, community and advocacy leaders,” the Wall Street Journal reported.

Under one proposal, 40 percent of the station’s upper level would be eliminated — creating a single-level facility with 40-foot-high ceilings. The concourses would be widened to make up for the lost capacity.

The other concept would keep the upper level in place but create an atrium in a former Amtrak waiting area. Both revamps would transform the station’s blueprint into a grid, the report said.
Quote:
” You are lost in this enclosed box,” Lieber told the WSJ. “What we want to do in either version is to open it up.”

Lieber did not provide a cost estimate for either proposal, the Journal said. He told the paper any Penn Station revamp could be funded as part of the $30 billion Gateway Program, which includes building a new tunnel under the Hudson River.

Penn Station is owned by Amtrak, whose president told the WSJ the railroad is working to develop a “consensus master plan” for the station, which served 600,000 people daily before the COVID-19 pandemic.
Quote:
Critics say Cuomo’s “Empire Station Complex” project — which also includes plans for 10 new skyscrapers — is being pushed through without oversight from the city or state legislature, The Post reported over the weekend.

Instead, the project is advised by a 13-member “Community Advisory Committee” — the group that heard Lieber’s presentation last week. The project will not undergo ULURP, or Uniform Land Use Review Procedure — a standardized process for public review of projects in the city.

State Sen. Brad Hoylman (D-Manhattan) — who reps much of the area surrounding the station, but not the station itself — told The Post that he and other elected officials skipped Friday’s meeting “in solidarity with our local community boards.”

State senate leadership declined to include a $1.3 billion bond for the project in their proposed budget released over the weekend, Hoylman said — defying Gov. Cuomo’s wishes.

“ There hasn’t been sufficient transparency and communication by the state with the public and the surrounding community about it,” Hoylman said.

“We’re trying to put the brakes on it until the community fully weighs in. They have to come to us for the money. What it looks like is they’re trying to ram this through — pay for it first and come up with the details later.”
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  #867  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2021, 4:37 AM
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Pic by me. Taken today.



Moynihan Station - 03-20-2021 by Christopher Estevez, on Flickr
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  #868  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2021, 2:12 PM
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Originally Posted by k1052 View Post
I will be forever annoyed that they could not get the deal to move MSG into the Farley Annex which would have been perfect. Then tear down everything on block 781 to build a new station and provide multiple high rise development sites.
MSG in the Farley annex would have largely destroyed the new Moynihan train hall and would have been a much smaller MSG than the current iteration. So it was a flawed alternative.

I agree that doing nothing is problematic too, but don't see the annex idea as an improvement.
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  #869  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2021, 6:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
MSG in the Farley annex would have largely destroyed the new Moynihan train hall and would have been a much smaller MSG than the current iteration. So it was a flawed alternative.

I agree that doing nothing is problematic too, but don't see the annex idea as an improvement.


It would have been fine actuallt, the train hall would have been where it is today. The arena was to go in the non-landmarked portion of the building, which will now hold some Facebook offices. There were no capacity issues, but the Dolans wanted some MSG signage on the 8th Avenue side, which officials were having no part of.























Model view.....


https://radiiinc.com/som-post-office





















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  #870  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2021, 9:17 PM
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50% of Moynihan Station is the Western annex. So if they moved MSG to the Western Annex, Moynihan Station would be 50% smaller. It wouldn't have just replaced the office space, it would have replaced much of Moynihan Station itself.

And MSG would have been smaller. It's a smaller footprint. That was a huge sticking point with the Dolans.
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  #871  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2021, 8:50 PM
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i can see why a smaller train hall was not desired at the time, but now? and with msg out of the way opening things up? you wonder -- but you cannot replay history though.

as for that new msg, meh, the dolans could have been told to take it or leave it. a shame nobody had the stones.
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  #872  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2021, 1:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
50% of Moynihan Station is the Western annex. So if they moved MSG to the Western Annex, Moynihan Station would be 50% smaller. It wouldn't have just replaced the office space, it would have replaced much of Moynihan Station itself.

And MSG would have been smaller. It's a smaller footprint. That was a huge sticking point with the Dolans.
This is incorrect as demonstrated above by NYguy's post. The annex is not part of the transit complex (above track level) and putting MSG in it would not have impacted the train hall.
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  #873  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2021, 12:22 AM
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https://new.mta.info/system_moderniz...reconstruction

Quote:
Two-Level Alternative

The first approach would transform Penn Station by leveraging the existing configuration's two-level boarding configuration while improving existing Penn's layout, creating a central atrium, and repurposing some of Amtrak's space for NJ Transit's commuters and operations. This alternative can be combined with a grand new entrance on Eighth Avenue and the light-filled West Train Hall in the space currently occupied by Madison Square Garden's 5,600-seat Hulu Theater by purchasing the theater from MSG...

Single-Level Alternative

This approach transforms Penn Station into an open, single-level concourse, eliminating all low ceiling heights and simplifying entry and exit routes from trains and the street level while also creating new large circulation areas bigger than the Great Hall of Grand Central Terminal. This alternative would remove 40 percent of the upper level so that all the public concourses could be two or three stories high, resulting in a more open, airy space throughout the station with better sightlines and more direct access to both tracks and platforms, and to station entrances/exits.

It would also feature a spacious, light-filled mid-block Train Hall with prominent new entrances on 33rd and 31st Streets near Seventh Avenue. The hall would bring in natural light with a new multi-story atrium built in the former taxiway between Madison Square Garden and 2 Penn Plaza, which has been closed for security since Sept. 11, 2001. This alternative moves MSG loading off 33rd Street, allowing 33rd Street to become a pedestrian-oriented shared street - greatly improving the streetscape.

The single-level alternative could also be combined with a grand new entrance on Eighth Avenue and the light-filled West Train Hall in the space currently occupied by Madison Square Garden's 5,600-seat Hulu Theater by purchasing the theater from MSG.
Quote:
Next Steps

The transformation of the existing Penn Station represents the latest milestone in the Governor's 2020 State of the State proposal to create the new Empire Station Complex. On December 30, Governor Cuomo announced the long-awaited grand opening of the Moynihan Train Hall, the first step in realizing that vision.

Following the Biden Administration's roll-out of the American Jobs Plan, Governor Cuomo, the MTA, Amtrak and NJ Transit will continue to work with the New York Congressional delegation and other state and federal partners to secure funding for the Gateway Program and the related Penn Station reconstruction and expansion projects.

With the infrastructure push, NOW is the time to get on it.

Concept images...



LIRR 33rd Street Concourse – opening early 2023





Two-Level Alternative - Central Atrium looking west from Lower Level





Two-Level Alternative - Central Atrium looking east from Upper Level




Two-Level Alternative - New Eighth Avenue Entrance looking east (could also be used with the Single-Level Alternative)





Two-Level Alternative – looking down into the New West Train Hall from 31st Street entrance (could also be used with the Single-Level Alternative)





Single-Level Alternative - Mid-Block Train Hall looking south on Lower Level





Single-Level Alternative – Mid-Block Train Hall looking south from Street Level entrance on 33rd Street





Single-Level Alternative – Mid-Block Train Hall looking south from Lower Level near 33rd Street





Single-Level Alternative – New 33rd Street Entrance at Streel Level looking west





33rd Street looking east from Eighth Avenue – Shared Street – pedestrians have priority (could be used with either alternative)


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  #874  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2021, 12:33 AM
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https://nypost.com/2021/04/21/new-im...tion-makeover/

Quote:
The renderings show two possible paths for the renovation of Penn Station — neither of which would require moving Madison Square Garden, MTA exec Janno Lieber told Wednesday’s monthly board meeting.

Under one proposal, 40 percent of the station’s upper level would be eliminated — creating a single-level facility with 40-foot-high ceilings.

The other “two-level” alternative would keep more of the upper level in place, but create an atrium in a former Amtrak waiting area.

On 33rd Street, MTA and city officials want to move MSG’s loading zones to create an expansive pedestrian plaza with a majestic entrance as its centerpiece, Lieber said.
Quote:
A third Penn Station concept presented on Wednesday could take over the space facing 8th Avenue currently occupied by the Hulu Theater, which is part of Madison Square Garden.

But Lieber said untangling the theater’s utilities from the arena would cost an additional $1 billion or more, and fail to slim crowds on 7th Avenue.

“We have, I would say de-emphasized this, at least in the MTA view, as a priority,” he said. “The 7th Avenue side is where the people are, and where we need to prioritize.”


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  #875  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2021, 12:45 AM
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Three embarrassing, mediocre, 10th rate options. Shame on everyone involved.
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  #876  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2021, 2:04 AM
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Just gross. I feel like we're watching a slow motion train wreck (pardon the pun.)
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  #877  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2021, 9:58 PM
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It's a bit pedestrian. Has the feel of a very nice Simon Mall; not really giving me world-class train station. New York is capable of much more. Also, how long is MSG Garden really going to be there? 20, 30, or even 40 years down the road if the Garden moves we will just be looking at another massive overhaul. Just do it right, once.
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  #878  
Old Posted May 14, 2021, 7:06 PM
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https://patch.com/new-york/newrochel...ll-steam-ahead

New Metro North Route To Penn Station Is Full Steam Ahead
New York is moving forward with plans to link Westchester County to Penn Station. Next stop, new train stations and faster commute times.






Jeff Edwards, Patch Staff
May 13, 2021


Quote:
The new train route from the Sound Shore to Penn Station is no longer stuck at the station.

On Thursday, Gov. Andrew Cuomo announced the resumption of the Metro-North Penn Station Access Project. The plans had been put on hold by the coronavirus pandemic and related uncertainties about MTA funding.

"As vaccination rates go up and COVID-19 abates, it's time to refocus our efforts on the critical infrastructure projects we need to deliver for New York's future and economic recovery from the pandemic," Cuomo said in a statement announcing resumption of the ambitious project. "Connecting Metro-North to Penn Station has long been an important next step not just for New York City's economic growth and development, but for protecting our environment and providing more equitable access to transit in our communities."
Quote:
Plans call for Metro-North trains to use a rail line owned by Amtrak. Those rails are currently used by Amtrak's Northeast Corridor trains connecting directly to Penn Station.

The Amtrak trains do not stop in the Bronx. Part of the project will require building four new stations along the line to accommodate commuters in the borough.
Quote:
Plans call for the four new stations to be built along the line at Hunts Point, Parkchester, Morris Park and Co-op City in the Bronx. The MTA had previously selected firms to design and build these stations, but the plans were tabled due to uncertainty brought on by the coronavirus pandemic.

The commute from Co-op City to Penn Station is currently 75 minutes. The commute time is expected to be reduced to 25 minutes when the new line is in operation.

The commute time from Hunts Point to Penn Station is currently 45 minutes. Commuters will be able to make the trip in 16 minutes once the new route is in place.
Quote:
"This is an exciting project that will be as transformative for Metro-North as it is for the Bronx," MTA Metro-North Railroad President Catherine Rinaldi said. "We look forward to doing everything we can to support this project to bring Metro-North service to an entirely new part of the Bronx and give customers on our New Haven Line — historically our busiest — a choice of new destinations as they plan their travel."[/QUOTE






https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/vid...tro-north-penn

Governor Cuomo Announces Resumption of Metro-North Penn Station Access Project
Federal Government Approves Project to Move Forward with Environmental Review; MTA Preparing for 45-Day Public Review Process and Formal Environmental Review



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  #879  
Old Posted May 15, 2021, 5:25 AM
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Will these new Bronx Metro North Stations include extra tracks that will allow the Amtrak trains to traverse the route unimpeded by the MTA stopping trains?
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  #880  
Old Posted May 15, 2021, 2:11 PM
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^ Yes.

In other words, Amtrak trains will not pass through MNRR stations/platforms.
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