Vancouver Power Grid Thread

[mcj]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

(slow chant) S-M-R, S-M-R, S-M-R...

I wish. One can dream that we'll actually develop reliable nuclear power in Canada outside of Ontario.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Where do you get your information?

Burrard Thermal has been decommissioned for years.

Yeah, I know it's 'decommissioned.'
BC Hydro is still holding onto it though, and the idea of recommissioning it for its peak role comes back up now and then to support intermittent renewables:
https://www.castanet.net/news/BC/277...-of-discussion

Also, it's still semi-operational by BC Hydro (though not producing power).

If we go fill wind + solar, that plant is going to eventually have to be fired up again for peak loads.

Grid battery systems don't necessarily use lithium, and they're generally not intended to 'store large amounts of power'. There are examples of big systems already built around the world, and there are several new technologies being developed. Sodium batteries already represent a cheaper alternative to lithium. China has an 800 MW battery farm with redox flow batteries with vanadium electrolyte. Yukon has a 20 MW/40 MW-hour battery being built. Alberta is already adding 300MW of storage related to their solar power generation.

They're usually Lithium.
Tech will change, but Lithium is still the best option, and has been for the last 20 years.
It's proven notoriously difficult to take off its throne, since it has a lot of inherent advantages in its chemistry (eg. one of the highest theoretical densities for batteries.)


Also, yeah, they do 2 different things- usually- if you use Wind and Solar.

In BC, we have enough hydro generators that batteries aren't needed.

Other places don't, and wind and solar put such massive pressure on the grid that the ultra-quick power production and storage of batteries are required for grid stability.

Go to mostly hydro-geothermal-nuclear, etc (non-(or at least largely) non-intermittent sources- as we do right now), you don't need those batteries at all.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by fredinno

They're usually Lithium.
Tech will change, but Lithium is still the best option, and has been for the last 20 years.
It's proven notoriously difficult to take off its throne, since it has a lot of inherent advantages in its chemistry (one of the highest theoretical densities for batteries.)

Utility storage has different requirements than many other applications such as electric vehicles. Density and weight are much less important, which means other battery technologies can be more feasible.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Utility storage has different requirements than many other applications such as electric vehicles. Density and weight are much less important, which means other battery technologies can be more feasible.

I know.
That's why I said usually.

The fact Li batteries are used in cars means that there's enormous economies of scale for Li batteries (as well as old car batteries that need to be either reused or recycled.)

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Yeah, I know it's 'decommissioned.'
BC Hydro is still holding onto it though, and the idea of recommissioning it for its peak role comes back up now and then to support intermittent renewables:
https://www.castanet.net/news/BC/277...-of-discussion

Also, it's still semi-operational by BC Hydro (though not producing power).

If we go fill wind + solar, that plant is going to eventually have to be fired up again for peak loads.



They're usually Lithium.
Tech will change, but Lithium is still the best option, and has been for the last 20 years.
It's proven notoriously difficult to take off its throne, since it has a lot of inherent advantages in its chemistry (eg. one of the highest theoretical densities for batteries.)


Also, yeah, they do 2 different things- usually- if you use Wind and Solar.

In BC, we have enough hydro generators that batteries aren't needed.

Other places don't, and wind and solar put such massive pressure on the grid that the ultra-quick power production and storage of batteries are required for grid stability.

Go to mostly hydro-geothermal-nuclear, etc (non-(or at least largely) non-intermittent sources- as we do right now), you don't need those batteries at all.

Nobody is suggesting BC is going fill wind + solar so that's an irrelevant comment. BC Hydro are looking for providers of wind, solar or other forms of zero emission energy to bid, so clearly they don't think we have enough hydro that other sources aren't worth adding to the mix. (Geothermal and tidal are also possible, but are less developed and so far more expensive).

There are isolated locations in BC where the grid either doesn't reach (Haida Gwai) or is unreliable or needs upgrading, where adding alternate sources like solar or wind make sense. They make even more sense when linked to grid battery storage, and in future, those batteries are more likely to involve technologies that use less toxic, cheaper and more readily available materials - like sodium ion batteries.

The development of those batteries has only recently taken off, but they're already in production. In China and in Europe CATL and BYD have started using sodium batteries in vehicles, so they're really mainstream now. It's a fast moving and changing field, and only some of the developments prove practical, but the much greater adoption of solar, wind and batteries in other parts of the world means that as we add them to the hydro base load, we get the advantage of a lot of r&d that has moved on to more efficient and inexpensive alternatives to burning stuff. (Any stuff).