[Moncton] Riverview Developments

[Future_Man]

"This proposal is at odds with town council's own plans..." lol
Town of Riverview has zero plans to do anything now and have no timelines. That's right from the Mayor Ann Seamans' mouth and their wellness centre committee's head Counc. Tom Toner. Read the council note PDF downloads and the newspaper articles. I applaud this group's efforts and look forward to seeing what they do moving forward. I've lived in Riverview for 20 plus years and this is long overdue.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Future_Man

"This proposal is at odds with town council's own plans..." lol
Town of Riverview has zero plans to do anything now and have no timelines. That's right from the Mayor Ann Seamans' mouth and their wellness centre committee's head Counc. Tom Toner. Read the council note PDF downloads and the newspaper articles. I applaud this group's efforts and look forward to seeing what they do moving forward. I've lived in Riverview for 20 plus years and this is long overdue.

I don't doubt the sincerity and passion of the people promoting the Riverview Energy Centre. I do however doubt their financial resources to get this multimillion dollar development off the ground. They need support from all three levels of government, most importantly Riverview town council, and I think it was quite telling that only a few councillors showed up for the recent announcement regarding this major construction project.

I'm glad to see that they have lined up Wee College and Andrews Hockey as potential tenants, but neither of these are major enterprises, and neither would provide sufficient rental income to make much difference to this project. They need much more.

It would be best for all if the backers of the Riverview Energy Centre simply joined forces with town council in order to promote a single wellness centre for the town. A combined effort might be able to attract the interest and support of the other levels of government and also might be able to get more interest from the private sector……..

[MonctonRad]

The proposal for this plaza will be before the town planning advisory commission for their July meeting:
http://www.townofriverview.ca/en/doi...uly9agenda.pdf

[Future_Man]

As a former Riverview business owner the BEST thing for this REC initiative is that they stay FAR AWAY from the Town of Riverview. Mayor Ann Seaman, Councillors and many senior staffers are anti business and anti growth.

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I don't doubt the sincerity and passion of the people promoting the Riverview Energy Centre. I do however doubt their financial resources to get this multimillion dollar development off the ground. They need support from all three levels of government, most importantly Riverview town council, and I think it was quite telling that only a few councillors showed up for the recent announcement regarding this major construction project.

I'm glad to see that they have lined up Wee College and Andrews Hockey as potential tenants, but neither of these are major enterprises, and neither would provide sufficient rental income to make much difference to this project. They need much more.

It would be best for all if the backers of the Riverview Energy Centre simply joined forces with town council in order to promote a single wellness centre for the town. A combined effort might be able to attract the interest and support of the other levels of government and also might be able to get more interest from the private sector……..

[jenike]

I'm not sure if anyone heard the interview done on CBC information morning on July 2 with Mayor Ann Seamans regarding the whole Riverview town council's project and the independent Riverview Energy Centre project.

I listened to this and couldn't help but scratch my head in disbelief. Here is the link to the podcast if anyone wants to listen. It's about 10 minutes long if I remember correctly.

http://www.cbc.ca/informationmorning...o-rec-centres/

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by jenike

I'm not sure if anyone heard the interview done on CBC information morning on July 2 with Mayor Ann Seamans regarding the whole Riverview town council's project and the independent Riverview Energy Centre project.

I listened to this and couldn't help but scratch my head in disbelief. Here is the link to the podcast if anyone wants to listen. It's about 10 minutes long if I remember correctly.

http://www.cbc.ca/informationmorning...o-rec-centres/

Mayor Seamans didn't do a tremendously good job explaining the town's position, but that's OK. I've been interviewed in the media before several times and it is easy to get off message when you have a microphone shoved in your face. Nervousness and mike fright can get in the way of logical thought and easily understandable explanations of complex issues.

- In essence, the town of Riverview has their own vision for a new recreational facility for the town, and this facility is intended to be the centrepiece for the proposed Mill Creek development. This is a fine idea.

- As an incorporated municipality, Riverview would have to be able to justify the need for this facility before asking more senior levels of government for financial assistance. In essence, they need a business plan, which is the reason why they are conducting a feasibility study. It may seem like a waste of time and money, but they need to do this to satisfy the requirements of the federal and provincial governments. Riverview has to follow different rules than a well capitalized private corporation would in order to secure financing. This feasibility study doesn't bother me.

- The proposed Energy Centre is a bit of a fly in the ointment for the town in this process. The Energy Centre is an especially ambitious project backed by a modest not-for-profit group which probably does not have sufficient capitalization to proceed. It will likely never move forward, but the Energy Centre does serve as a significant source of confusion and controversy for the town. This confusion exists not only for the citizens of the town but for other levels of government as well. I mean, why would the feds cough up a few million if there is the possibility that a private group might be able to accomplish the same thing for less money? The Energy Centre group has just made things a lot more complicated for Mayor Seamans.

The Energy Centre project would do nothing for the proposed Mill Creek development, as it would be located elsewhere in the town. Mill Creek is a pet project for the town. The proposed Energy Centre could in fact jeopardize the whole Mill Creek development, because the town's envisioned recreational facility is intended to be the centrepiece for Mill Creek. This probably explains the ambivalence of the town towards the proposed Energy Centre. This is understandable, because the Mill Creek project, as envisioned, in many ways is the future of Riverview. The Energy Centre therefore is in some ways a threat to the town.

To her credit, Mayor Seamans did say that if the Energy Centre were to proceed, that the town would abandon their own plans for a new recreational centre. This is only prudent. In the meantime, I think there is a strong likelihood that the Energy Centre group will get nowhere with their project. I think they lack the backers necessary to move this project forward. I believe the current promoters of this project are well intentioned dreamers who are in well over their head. The town therefore should assume the Energy Centre will fail, and should carry on with their feasibility study and follow all the usual courses of action necessary to allow the Mill Creek project to proceed. Mill Creek is more likely to happen than the proposed Energy Centre.

I could be wrong, but I have seen no evidence so far that there is anyone with deep pockets backing the Energy Centre. I think the best thing for everyone involved is for the Energy Centre group to give up on their independent plans and to formally back the Mill Creek project. In turn, the town should appoint some of the Energy Centre backers to the committee overseeing the Mill Creek project and to seriously consider some of the Energy Centre components as part of the Mill Creek development. This would be a win-win situation for everyone.

[josh_cat_eyes]

Why don't they invite the group from the energy centre project in on the mill creek project?

[jenike]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Mayor Seamans didn't do a tremendously good job explaining the town's position, but that's OK. I've been interviewed in the media before several times and it is easy to get off message when you have a microphone shoved in your face. Nervousness and mike fright can get in the way of logical thought and easily understandable explanations of complex issues.

- In essence, the town of Riverview has their own vision for a new recreational facility for the town, and this facility is intended to be the centrepiece for the proposed Mill Creek development. This is a fine idea.

- As an incorporated municipality, Riverview would have to be able to justify the need for this facility before asking more senior levels of government for financial assistance. In essence, they need a business plan, which is the reason why they are conducting a feasibility study. It may seem like a waste of time and money, but they need to do this to satisfy the requirements of the federal and provincial governments. Riverview has to follow different rules than a well capitalized private corporation would in order to secure financing. This feasibility study doesn't bother me.

- The proposed Energy Centre is a bit of a fly in the ointment for the town in this process. The Energy Centre is an especially ambitious project backed by a modest not-for-profit group which probably does not have sufficient capitalization to proceed. It will likely never move forward, but the Energy Centre does serve as a significant source of confusion and controversy for the town. This confusion exists not only for the citizens of the town but for other levels of government as well. I mean, why would the feds cough up a few million if there is the possibility that a private group might be able to accomplish the same thing for less money? The Energy Centre group has just made things a lot more complicated for Mayor Seamans.

The Energy Centre project would do nothing for the proposed Mill Creek development, as it would be located elsewhere in the town. Mill Creek is a pet project for the town. The proposed Energy Centre could in fact jeopardize the whole Mill Creek development, because the town's envisioned recreational facility is intended to be the centrepiece for Mill Creek. This probably explains the ambivalence of the town towards the proposed Energy Centre. This is understandable, because the Mill Creek project, as envisioned, in many ways is the future of Riverview. The Energy Centre therefore is in some ways a threat to the town.

To her credit, Mayor Seamans did say that if the Energy Centre were to proceed, that the town would abandon their own plans for a new recreational centre. This is only prudent. In the meantime, I think there is a strong likelihood that the Energy Centre group will get nowhere with their project. I think they lack the backers necessary to move this project forward. I believe the current promoters of this project are well intentioned dreamers who are in well over their head. The town therefore should assume the Energy Centre will fail, and should carry on with their feasibility study and follow all the usual courses of action necessary to allow the Mill Creek project to proceed. Mill Creek is more likely to happen than the proposed Energy Centre.

I could be wrong, but I have seen no evidence so far that there is anyone with deep pockets backing the Energy Centre. I think the best thing for everyone involved is for the Energy Centre group to give up on their independent plans and to formally back the Mill Creek project. In turn, the town should appoint some of the Energy Centre backers to the committee overseeing the Mill Creek project and to seriously consider some of the Energy Centre components as part of the Mill Creek development. This would be a win-win situation for everyone.

I guess I picked out different pieces from this interview than you did Moncton Rad, but that's kind of why I posted it here.

Things that I heard were more along the lines of:

We've had a committee studying a wellness centre concept for 16 years.

We need to continue with a feasibility because we need this committee to show that they have tangible deliverable after that long.

The Mill Creek project, although talked about as being a project that will take shape soon, is actually years away from even starting (no roads, no infrastructure, etc... even on the books in the short term).

I would say it is that last point that motivates the Energy Centre group. My kids don't play hockey, but I've been told the arena at Byron Dobson is not in good shape at all, and that there actually is not enough ice surfaces for the demand. People actually have to book time in Hillsborough to get ice time. I don't think that will get better anytime soon, so hence the creation of the Energy Centre group.

That's how I take it.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by jenike

We've had a committee studying a wellness centre concept for 16 years.

We need to continue with a feasibility because we need this committee to show that they have tangible deliverable after that long.

I can understand your frustration. 16 years is a very long time. The question I have is "what was the quality of work done by these committees over the last 16 years". The province (and especially the feds) will have very specific questions that they will want to have answered before they will commit money to this worthy project. I'm sure that a report by professional consultants will be much better received than something informal conducted by the town itself.

Originally Posted by jenike

The Mill Creek project, although talked about as being a project that will take shape soon, is actually years away from even starting (no roads, no infrastructure, etc... even on the books in the short term).

I fully realize that there still is a lot of work to do on the ground in Mill Creek, but it sort of a chicken and egg thing. It would be foolish for the town to commit millions of dollars in infrastructure spending if the recreation centre doesn't get built. Remember how Findlay Park sat vacant (but with fancy curbed streets and decorative streetlights) for at least a decade before it finally took off? I don't think anyone would want to see a repeat of that. If the town however is successful in securing funding for the recreational centre, I'm sure that the necessary infrastructure spending will be approved right away.

Originally Posted by jenike

I would say it is that last point that motivates the Energy Centre group. My kids don't play hockey, but I've been told the arena at Byron Dobson is not in good shape at all, and that there actually is not enough ice surfaces for the demand. People actually have to book time in Hillsborough to get ice time. I don't think that will get better anytime soon, so hence the creation of the Energy Centre group.

There is no question that the town needs new facilities. My eldest son played hockey in the Moncton Minor Hockey Association and often played at the Byron Dobson Arena. It is aging and the number of ice surfaces is insufficient for the town. Similarly, all three of my sons played high school football and again, the field at Riverview High School is below par, especially with the recent proliferation of artificial turf fields on our side of the river. The town plan includes an artificial turf field and Riverview both needs and deserves this type of playing surface.

[Future_Man]

I think Ann Seamans was drunk during that interview. They'll been studying it for only 16 months. That and I think by last count these town idiots have spent over $150,000 of taxpayers money on studies the past 16 months. Of course, that's including another $22,000 they handed over to Jim Scott's Trace Planning and Design. I hope he sends Mayor Ann Seamans a Christmas card this year or a very big gift. All this studying and not one god damn shovel in the ground. What a joke on the ignorant Riverview taxpayers.

"Council awarded the RFP for the Ken Gabby Pool/Lions Park conceptual plan and re-development to TRACE Planning and Design in the amount of $22,345.75."

Originally Posted by jenike

I guess I picked out different pieces from this interview than you did Moncton Rad, but that's kind of why I posted it here.

Things that I heard were more along the lines of:

We've had a committee studying a wellness centre concept for 16 years.

We need to continue with a feasibility because we need this committee to show that they have tangible deliverable after that long.

The Mill Creek project, although talked about as being a project that will take shape soon, is actually years away from even starting (no roads, no infrastructure, etc... even on the books in the short term).

I would say it is that last point that motivates the Energy Centre group. My kids don't play hockey, but I've been told the arena at Byron Dobson is not in good shape at all, and that there actually is not enough ice surfaces for the demand. People actually have to book time in Hillsborough to get ice time. I don't think that will get better anytime soon, so hence the creation of the Energy Centre group.

That's how I take it.

[MonctonRad]

The streets though the Clayton Developments subdivision in Riverview are now paved and curbed. The first handful of houses in the subdivision are now under construction.

[MonctonRad]

It was in the T&T today that the new McDonald's on Coverdale Road where the old KFC used to be has passed the PAC with no objections and no changes requested to the planning documents. Since no rezoning is necessary, this will not be brought before town council and therefore it would appear that this project is now a go.



No word on when construction will start however.

[Good2go]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

No word on when construction will start however.

They tore down the KFC building yesterday.

[Future_Man]

So, I was at the Riverview Energy Centre's second public event at the cocoa room last night and it seems like they are ready to move onto the architectural design rfp stage. The presentation was very interesting. although they didn't come out and state the exact site they showed a site concept with the Riverview Energy Centre building and others on the same site.

This team is a lot more organized that I originally thought. There was a $100,000 donation to the project by Riverview minor hockey as well. Wow. They are picking up steam and there was a pretty good sized crowd. It was interesting seeing two town councillors in attendance as well. Councillors Andrew LeBlanc and Cecil Cassista were there but mayor Ann Seamans wasn't there yet again.

[Ron Burgundy]

Originally Posted by Future_Man

So, I was at the Riverview Energy Centre's second public event at the cocoa room last night and it seems like they are ready to move onto the architectural design rfp stage. The presentation was very interesting. although they didn't come out and state the exact site they showed a site concept with the Riverview Energy Centre building and others on the same site.

This team is a lot more organized that I originally thought. There was a $100,000 donation to the project by Riverview minor hockey as well. Wow. They are picking up steam and there was a pretty good sized crowd. It was interesting seeing two town councillors in attendance as well. Councillors Andrew LeBlanc and Cecil Cassista were there but mayor Ann Seamans wasn't there yet again.

Really?

Isn't it highly irresponsible of these clowns to accept this donation? Same for Riverview Minor Hockey. Throwing 10 years of donations down the drain!
This project has zero hope. If and when a facility like this ever does get built it will be by the Town and with the financial support of federal and provincial governments, and probably not for many years to come. Never by 2016. Sure, kids are worth it, but my kids don't get everything they ask for. But they "think differently" they say. Really? Differently than the real world which actually has to have money to pay for stuff? It's nice to dream but the reality is, this is a pipe dream. Before anyone else donates to this cause, ask the question as to where the rest of the money is going to come from. This is likely to be a $40-60M project. Even if, in the unlilkely event, the feds and province kicked in their third, there's still a $20M shortfall. Where's that coming from? Fundraising!? Taxpayers!? The Town of course is exploring a similar facility, so be ready for the significant hike to your tax rate to build this thing. Afterall, the kids are worth it.

Really?

[Future_Man]

This 'clown' (see below) sounds like the some of the 'Town Clowns' I dealt with as a business owner in town for years. Always negative, living in the 1980's, irresponsible spenders and useless as tits-on-a-bull on leadership. As a third party all I've sen the past 2 years is a mayor along with a useless council and senior staff (the '3 amigos) diddling themselves with our tax dollars. Hundreds of thousands of wasted dollars on studies, killing our business community (business riverview scuttling and the bad pr after effects), sitting and spinning while our roads decay and recently spent 20,000 dollars on a head hunter for a retiring senior staffer. Oh and let's not forget them soon going forward with a 10-12 million operations centre - a glorified garage for a dozen or so employees. What's wrong with putting 500,000 - 750,000 into the existing facility as it can be repaired MUCH cheaper? i know this because I have 2 friends who work out of this building. Taxpayers need to hang all these clowns up for their actions and inactions. With this said, you'll have to excuse me and hundreds, if not thousands, of Riverview residents aka the taxpayers who believe that this group has a plan moving forward to do this - and probably execute better than the town - and probably with help from the province/feds.

Originally Posted by Ron Burgundy

Really?

Isn't it highly irresponsible of these clowns to accept this donation? Same for Riverview Minor Hockey. Throwing 10 years of donations down the drain!
This project has zero hope. If and when a facility like this ever does get built it will be by the Town and with the financial support of federal and provincial governments, and probably not for many years to come. Never by 2016. Sure, kids are worth it, but my kids don't get everything they ask for. But they "think differently" they say. Really? Differently than the real world which actually has to have money to pay for stuff? It's nice to dream but the reality is, this is a pipe dream. Before anyone else donates to this cause, ask the question as to where the rest of the money is going to come from. This is likely to be a $40-60M project. Even if, in the unlilkely event, the feds and province kicked in their third, there's still a $20M shortfall. Where's that coming from? Fundraising!? Taxpayers!? The Town of course is exploring a similar facility, so be ready for the significant hike to your tax rate to build this thing. Afterall, the kids are worth it.

Really?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

It was in the T&T today that the new McDonald's on Coverdale Road where the old KFC used to be has passed the PAC with no objections and no changes requested to the planning documents. Since no rezoning is necessary, this will not be brought before town council and therefore it would appear that this project is now a go.

No word on when construction will start however.

It was in the T&T today that they hope to have the new Mickey D's ready by December.

They also confirmed that PJC will be expanding into the old MacDonald's space, and in particular, this will be where their cosmetics space will be located.

[Good2go]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

It was in the T&T today that they hope to have the new Mickey D's ready by December.

T&T seems confused as to what year this is...

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by riverviewer

The Chocolate River Station is getting a new tenant.

Black Tie Bistro

A little more high end for Riverview with live music.

www.Blacktiebistro.com

According to the T&T, this restaurant will be opening next week and will be a gluten free restaurant, friendly to those who have celiac disease.

An interesting niche concept. This might suit them well in terms of long term survival. I wish them well…….

BTW, I guess they will have some regular menu items for those of us with normal small bowels, but their primary focus will be on gluten free foods.

[MonctonRad]

It was in the T&T today that Riverview has awarded a tender to Exp Architects Inc for design work for a new $16.5-19M Operations Centre for the town, to be built off of Gunningsville Blvd in the Mill Creek Park area.

The total cost for the design work is $850K, spread over three years, but, typical for the town, there was considerable opposition to paying out the full sum all at once. Instead, although they agreed (in principle) to the full amount, town council will pay for the architectural design work only on an ongoing basis, allocating only $140K for the work to be done this calendar year.

This unfortunately is symptomatic of a town with very few financial resources. This is because of an absent industrial base, and a minuscule commercial base. It is hard to pay for ongoing maintenance work in the town, let alone any new projects, with residential taxes alone.

I don't know what Riverview can do about this. They are on the wrong side of the river for significant industrial or commercial projects. Add to this an "anti-business" NIMBY type reputation and the town is really behind the eight ball.

Riverview might be a great place to live (I don't doubt that it is), but it is difficult to survive these days purely as a low density bedroom community. Sometimes I wonder if Riverview shouldn't just give up and amalgamate with Moncton. They might be better off…….