Metro Phoenix Transit/Transportation Developments

[HooverDam]

[QUOTE=phoenixwillrise;6703050]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

I Have no clue how you post a new topic here so I just hit reply sorry for being tech challenged. My topic is Sky Train. Has it dawned on anyone when they make the final run from terminal 3 to the rent a car facility that the Greyhound Bus Terminal is on the way there. Surely a stop there would be beneficial as I would assume there are bus riders coming in from smaller towns who when they get to Phoenix may at that point fly to their destination. What say you people?

Not a bad idea. Though long term, I'd rather see the Greyhound station moved to be adjacent/connected to Union Station in Downtown Phoenix, much like South Station in Boston and many other major stations across the country/world.

Bus is a mode of ground travel and it makes more sense for people getting off buses to be able to walk to a hotel or actual be in a place. Where the Greyhound station currently is, people are basically on an island in a part of the city that there's no real reason to be in.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

Agreed. The decision between rail and bus needs to be based on the expected volume of passengers, the potential for transit-oriented development, and appropriate technical considerations. We don't want to do anything that even remotely suggests a two-tier system based on ethnicity or class.

Sorry if I implied that I wanted to give a 2nd-tiered system to South Phoenix. I didn't consider BRT to be 2nd-tier when I wrote that, since our light rail is essentially a glorified streetcar system. I guess my thought was if a more affordable mass transit upgrade would actually work for an area, why not use it than the higher cost alternative if it moves people at the same rate?

I just think - probably similar to Hoover - that BRT isn't discussed or used as often as it could be here. It seems to be light rail or nothing, and I don't think that's the smartest system.

I think a streetcar system focused on McDowell - one spur to connect the arts district via Grand from 7th to 19th avenues and another from Central to ~16th street and over to Garfield would supplement BRT on the 7's well.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

Sorry if I implied that I wanted to give a 2nd-tiered system to South Phoenix. I didn't consider BRT to be 2nd-tier when I wrote that, since our light rail is essentially a glorified streetcar system. I guess my thought was if a more affordable mass transit upgrade would actually work for an area, why not use it than the higher cost alternative if it moves people at the same rate?

I just think - probably similar to Hoover - that BRT isn't discussed or used as often as it could be here. It seems to be light rail or nothing, and I don't think that's the smartest system.

I think a streetcar system focused on McDowell - one spur to connect the arts district via Grand from 7th to 19th avenues and another from Central to ~16th street and over to Garfield would supplement BRT on the 7's well.

I realize you may not consider BRT second-tier, but I do. Buses are far more stigmatized than trains, even when they're gussied up with BRT features such as boarding platforms, dedicated lanes, and pre-boarding ticket sales. I can't tell you know the number of people who've said to me, "I'll take a train, but I won't take a bus."

That said, there is a role for BRT in Phoenix -- as an interim solution for corridors awaiting rail or in situations in which rail is just not possible due to technical or political considerations. The 7s probably make sense for BRT because they're too close to the existing light rail line to be a viable corridor for additional train routes.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

I realize you may not consider BRT second-tier, but I do. Buses are far more stigmatized than trains, even when they're gussied up with BRT features such as boarding platforms, dedicated lanes, and pre-boarding ticket sales. I can't tell you know the number of people who've said to me, "I'll take a train, but I won't take a bus."

That said, there is a role for BRT in Phoenix -- as an interim solution for corridors awaiting rail or in situations in which rail is just not possible due to technical or political considerations. The 7s probably make sense for BRT because they're too close to the existing light rail line to be a viable corridor for additional train routes.

I guess that's exactly why I thought it was a good idea, since this demo wouldn't care about the fanciness. I definitely get how it would look from the outside now, so it was a dumb suggestion.

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

That said, there is a role for BRT in Phoenix -- as an interim solution for corridors awaiting rail or in situations in which rail is just not possible due to technical or political considerations. The 7s probably make sense for BRT because they're too close to the existing light rail line to be a viable corridor for additional train routes.

As we've discussed in the past I also think the I-10 median would make sense for BRT instead of LRT.

I 100% agree with you about the 7's being too close to existing rail for more rail. Though if you talk to Will Bruder, he thinks we need rail (in the form of modern streetcar) on the 3's! Which I think is a super lousy idea.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

As we've discussed in the past I also think the I-10 median would make sense for BRT instead of LRT.

I 100% agree with you about the 7's being too close to existing rail for more rail. Though if you talk to Will Bruder, he thinks we need rail (in the form of modern streetcar) on the 3's! Which I think is a super lousy idea.

What about a streetcar that went from up Grand to the fairgrounds, east on McDowell, and south on 3rd Ave through Hance and terminated within Roosevelt? I can't think of another route without going so far east that it woukd possibly become unviable economically.

[pbenjamin]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

As we've discussed in the past I also think the I-10 median would make sense for BRT instead of LRT.

I 100% agree with you about the 7's being too close to existing rail for more rail. Though if you talk to Will Bruder, he thinks we need rail (in the form of modern streetcar) on the 3's! Which I think is a super lousy idea.

What would BRT on the 7s accomplish? You mentioned a loop turning around at Missouri. There is already reasonably good bus service and they are only 1/2 mile from the existing LRT.

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by pbenjamin

What would BRT on the 7s accomplish? You mentioned a loop turning around at Missouri. There is already reasonably good bus service and they are only 1/2 mile from the existing LRT.

Well it would connect the areas outside the 7's to more real mass transit. It would also give a viable solution/alternative to the suicide lanes. BRT has much higher ridership potential and better service than regular buses. The idea is to give Central Phoenix really outstanding service, not just pretty good. For instance I live at 8th St/Windsor (basically Thomas/7th St) and while I use LRT daily, I have to reach it by my bike. I can walk but its about maximum walking distance, especially in the summer. I could theoretically ride a bus down 7th St, but they're so infrequent and unpredictable, I'd rather go the extra 1/2 mile on my bike to get to the train. Plus there's still a fair amount of undeveloped land along the 7's and a fixed mode like BRT would hopefully lead to some TOD.

[N830MH]

All,

Look the thread at entire airliners.net.

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo....main/2591291/

You can read it. This is for future light rail routes.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

As we've discussed in the past I also think the I-10 median would make sense for BRT instead of LRT.

I'd agree. I didn't really understand BRT until recently seeing this video.

[N830MH]

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/...oost/15501641/

Efforts to bring light rail to south Phoenix just got a major financial boost.

The city is expected to receive a $1.6 million grant from the U.S. Department of Transportation to ramp up planning for a rail extension south of downtown along Central Avenue to Baseline Road.

Councilman Daniel Valenzuela, who lobbied for the grant during a recent trip to Washington, D.C., said bringing light rail to the low-income area is critical given that many residents rely on mass transit to get to work, school and medical appointments.

[CrestedSaguaro]

I really question this study. Considering that the majority of road travel in Arizona occurs in and around Phoenix, of course the study is going to show a drop in road travel due to light rail usage and such. I would like to see a study centered around the actual corridor from Phoenix to Las Vegas rather than a statewide transit study. I bet the outcome would be quite different and would show that travel between the 2 have increased drastically.

September 24, 2014PHOENIX - The $2.5 billion Interstate 11 project, proposed to connect Phoenix and Las Vegas, is not in the best interest of taxpayers, according to a study from the Arizona Public Interest Research Group. "(The) I-11 corridor is based on obsolete traffic assumptions that are being used to justify outrageous amounts of spending on an unnecessary highway," said Diane Brown, executive director of Arizona PIRG. Brown said transportation planners operate under the assumption that more highways are needed because Americans will drive more in the future - but the opposite trend is occurring. PIRG research indicates that from 2005 to 2012, Arizona saw an 11 percent decline in annual vehicle miles driven. Brown said the study, entitled "Highway Boondoggles: Wasted Money and America's Transportation Future," also shows that people in the Grand Canyon State and across the nation are opting to use public transportation more than in the past. She said the billions of dollars that would be spent building Interstate 11 would better serve taxpayers by funding more projects such as the Phoenix light rail and the Tucson streetcar. "The use of taxpayer dollars should increasingly be going toward the options that people are choosing," Brown said, "which continues to be more public transportation, more bikeable and walkable communities." Brown said research also shows the majority of Arizonans favor improving existing roadways over building new ones. Supporters of Interstate 11 say it would improve traffic flow between Phoenix and Las Vegas, which are the only two cities in the United States with populations over 1 million that do not have a direct Interstate connection. - See more at: http://www.publicnewsservice.org/201....bd0IFdRQ.dpuf

http://www.publicnewsservice.org/201...oggle/a41893-1

[DevilsRider]

I think there is certainly value to upgrading the entire stretch from Las Vegas to Wickenburg into a divided highway. Having made this trip many times, I am always surprised there aren't MORE head-on collisions from impatient drivers attempting to pass slower-moving vehicles. And if I-11 was proposed for only that corridor, I would be all for it. Particularly if it included right-of-way reservation for future high-speed rail.

Having said that, a significant part of I-11 is the creation of brand-new freeway west of the White Tanks and paralleling I-8 in the south (see the blue line in the link). THAT section seems like an absurd waste of money and completely against any semblance of fiscal or environmental sensibility.

http://www.interstate11.org/i11/exhi...Map%202-09.pdf

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

I really question this study. Considering that the majority of road travel in Arizona occurs in and around Phoenix, of course the study is going to show a drop in road travel due to light rail usage and such. I would like to see a study centered around the actual corridor from Phoenix to Las Vegas rather than a statewide transit study. I bet the outcome would be quite different and would show that travel between the 2 have increased drastically.



http://www.publicnewsservice.org/201...oggle/a41893-1

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by DevilsRider

I think there is certainly value to upgrading the entire stretch from Las Vegas to Wickenburg into a divided highway. Having made this trip many times, I am always surprised there aren't MORE head-on collisions from impatient drivers attempting to pass slower-moving vehicles. And if I-11 was proposed for only that corridor, I would be all for it. Particularly if it included right-of-way reservation for future high-speed rail.

Having said that, a significant part of I-11 is the creation of brand-new freeway west of the White Tanks and paralleling I-8 in the south (see the blue line in the link). THAT section seems like an absurd waste of money and completely against any semblance of fiscal or environmental sensibility.

http://www.interstate11.org/i11/exhi...Map%202-09.pdf

Agreed 100%. If they said "hey we need an Interstate/divided highway from the 101 loop (or even 303) to Vegas" fine, build it. But lets call a spade a spade, a good portion of this project is designed to open a new sprawl corridor west of the White Tanks, which is horrifying.

[turpentyne]

I've long felt that a downtown streetcar system should start with one on each of the 7s, then maybe a horizontal one (or light rail) along Mcdowell.

I know some think this is too close to the current lines, but consider the opinion of somebody handicapped, or over the age of 75, or even just carrying something - groceries. Car battery, or any number of reasons. In other cities, that distance is normal.

I know we're a more spread out city, but I think it's the right move to influence density - I do think it would help to have the lines make a couple turns for more area coverage in the neighborhoods even.

That's my thought anyway. I would absolutely love those ( and a line up to glendale

[N830MH]

http://www.azfamily.com/traffic/Last...277275611.html

This is last chance for public to review proposal Loop 202 extension. They have to be approved.

Published by the Arizona Department of Transportation in partnership with the Federal Highway Administration, the document is part of a review process required by the federal government. It provides the public with a final opportunity to review the preferred freeway route, which was identified through the South Mountain Transportation Corridor Study.

ADOT said the freeway is the final link in the voter-approved loop system of freeways serving the Phoenix area. The preferred route runs east and west along Pecos Road and north between 55th and 63rd avenues, connecting with Interstate 10 on each end.

Come on you guys!! Vote now!

[Leo the Dog]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

Agreed 100%. If they said "hey we need an Interstate/divided highway from the 101 loop (or even 303) to Vegas" fine, build it. But lets call a spade a spade, a good portion of this project is designed to open a new sprawl corridor west of the White Tanks, which is horrifying.

Isn't Buckeye supposed to build enough housing for 1 million people in the Hassayampa Valley? Water rights exist in the form of ground water, so if people are willing, to live there, then it is possible.

This would be tragic, but if it's gonna happen, best to plan for it and set aside transportation corridors now.

[KevininPhx]

Originally Posted by Leo the Dog

Isn't Buckeye supposed to build enough housing for 1 million people in the Hassayampa Valley? Water rights exist in the form of ground water, so if people are willing, to live there, then it is possible.

This would be tragic, but if it's gonna happen, best to plan for it and set aside transportation corridors now.

It's already happening. The amount of development way way west of Buckeye and even Tonopah is incredible or terrible, depending on your point of view. (I hate it.) Just about all the land 50 miles west and beyond of the 303 seems to have for sale signs on it.

[Leo the Dog]

Originally Posted by KevininPhx

It's already happening. The amount of development way way west of Buckeye and even Tonopah is incredible or terrible, depending on your point of view. (I hate it.) Just about all the land 50 miles west and beyond of the 303 seems to have for sale signs on it.

That's incredible! I haven't driven around over there since 2008ish. This will definitely strain the infrastructure. It should come as no surprise though. This has been predicted for decades. The Great Recession just delayed the inevitable by a decade or so.

[N830MH]

Any news about light rail lately?