Tucson Development Thread

[kmiller5]

On the corner of freeway and congress???

[Ted Lyons]

Originally Posted by kmiller5

On the corner of freeway and congress???

Yup.

[InTheBurbs]

Originally Posted by Ted Lyons

17-floor mixed use development proposed for the northern part of the former Nor-Gen lot. Developer is out of the Chicago area and looks legit. In front of the DRB on the 18th.

Yes Please.

Hopefully it won't get bogged down in complaints about it blocking the view of the freeway or being too tall for the Circle K across the street.

[Azstar]

Hate to be negative, but Tucson has a history of developers announcing big plans only to hightail it back out of town and abandoning their "projects" when they realize how high the risk is here.

[southtucsonboy77]

I believe there are some similar players from the Main Gate student housing projects, so hopefully that gives it a good chance to succeed. It would be awesome if that corner finally gets developed. I still don’t get the girth of these proposed buildings, but the architecture looks nice and 17 floors isn’t too shabby.

[andrewsaturn]

RN will discuss in executive session 75 E Broadway tomorrow but not in the public session. Anybody have an idea why?

[combusean]

Generally speaking, executive session is where the details of contracts, etc between government and private business get discussed. Open meetings are for the actual voting of the results of those negotiations.

[andrewsaturn]

RN Meeting 11/15/22 (Short meeting)

-Johnson Consulting firm says Tucson competitive market is comparable to El Paso, Spokane, and Fort Worth. They recommend RN to think about an Exhibit Hall for the gem show and for other indoor sporting events as a short term goal. Says RN has to be more proactive in the RN district master plan in the long term goals. RN says they know they have been more reactive and agrees they need to be more proactive. (We'll see..)

They mentioned a tiny bit about the Alan Norville parcel where the previous proposed exhibit hall was, saying that he keeps delaying or deferring development. Johnson Consulting basically said they need to do something about it.

We obviously don't know what is going on with that situation but Alan Norville still owns the arena site land or at least a portion of it. So whatever is happening, hopefully it can be dealt with soon.

[AZ71]

Originally Posted by andrewsaturn

RN Meeting 11/15/22 (Short meeting)

-Johnson Consulting firm says Tucson competitive market is comparable to El Paso, Spokane, and Fort Worth. They recommend RN to think about an Exhibit Hall for the gem show and for other indoor sporting events as a short term goal. Says RN has to be more proactive in the RN district master plan in the long term goals. RN says they know they have been more reactive and agrees they need to be more proactive. (We'll see..)

They mentioned a tiny bit about the Alan Norville parcel where the previous proposed exhibit hall was, saying that he keeps delaying or deferring development. Johnson Consulting basically said they need to do something about it.

We obviously don't know what is going on with that situation but Alan Norville still owns the arena site land or at least a portion of it. So whatever is happening, hopefully it can be dealt with soon.

Does anyone know who owns the old El Paso & Southwestern Depot there around all that empty land. I know it used to be two restaurants. Carlos Murphy's and Garcia's. But those are closed. Does Alan Norville own this land & building too? This could be an amazing location for a museum, gallery or other public space.

[Ted Lyons]

Originally Posted by andrewsaturn

We obviously don't know what is going on with that situation but Alan Norville still owns the arena site land or at least a portion of it. So whatever is happening, hopefully it can be dealt with soon.

He still owns the triangle-shaped parcel on the southeast corner. RN should now be in control of the entire linear portion to the west. Not sure about the train depot. Would be unfortunate if Norville owns it.

[Obadno]

Wow! First solid new skyline addition in quite a long time

https://azbex.com/planning-developme...ucson-gateway/



[IMG]The I-10 entryway to downtown Tucson may get a major skyline update with a planned 17-story multifamily and commercial development scheduled for a courtesy review before the Rio Nuevo Area Design Review Board this week.

471 W. Congress St. is currently an approximately 5.73-acre vacant lot at the SEC of West Congress Street and the South Freeway frontage road in the Rio Nuevo Area of the Downtown Infill Incentive Districts.

According to the plan submitted by developer UrbanStreet Group, “This Project is located at a key gateway to downtown Tucson from Interstate 10. The goal is to celebrate this entrance to downtown Tucson by constructing a signature building with landscaping and signage to create an entry feature announcing and celebrating this important gateway.”

Plans call for ground floor retail and restaurant space with 354 dwelling units on the floors above and an enclosed parking area with 459 spaces. The total area will be slightly more than 562KSF, and the total height is planned for 193’6” with rooftop mechanical components included. Maximum permitted height under the current zoning is 300 feet.

As noted in the submission, dwelling units will start with 10 units (9,443 rentable SF) on the third floor and increase to 23 units (20,245 RSF) on the fourth. Floors five through 16 will then have 26 units (21,998RSF/floor), and the 17th floor will have nine units (7,420RSF).

The concrete and glass design includes an extensive tenant amenity set, with a lobby lounge, a bike room and workshop space, storage lockers on each level, a business and party room, a fitness area, a rooftop pool deck with cooking spaces and a 17th floor outdoor deck.

Twenty-four-hour street level activity is one of the stated design standards for the development area. To that end, the submittal states: “We too would encourage as much street level activity as possible. This Property is unique in that the entire western boundary is I-10, which creates a separation between the east and west areas of downtown. The future Greenway connection will increase foot and bicycle traffic around the Property. The existing bus stop directly adjacent to the Property will also guarantee commuter traffic on Congress Street. Perhaps future projects in the development district could help to even further the promotion of activity around the site.”

The site is part of the Grant Road Investment District Urban Overlay District, which maintains existing zoning for properties while also allowing optional zoning to encourage development. Several properties and sites along Grant are vacant, and the road’s multi-phase improvement project has created several parcels that are irregularly shaped and not easily redeveloped under the existing zoning. The UOD is intended to provide enhanced development possibilities.

Among the elements incorporated into the GRID process are:

Reduced setbacks,
Parking relief with neighborhood protection factored in,
An enhanced pedestrian environment,
Transit connection support,
Taller buildings, and
Green infrastructure.
A major review under the GRID can take four-to-six months, according to the City’s information sheet. The required steps consist of:

A pre-application conference,
A neighborhood meeting,
A formal application submittal,
Application processing by the Planning and Development Services Department, which may include reviews and recommendations from the City Design Professional, City of Tucson Historic Commission, and the GRID Design Review Board, and
Decision issuance by PDSD.
The current project team is comprised of developer UrbanStreet Group LLC, design firm Antunovich Associates, landscape architects Novak Environmental and civil engineer Psomas. The project is represented by Lazarus & Silvyn.

The DRB meeting is scheduled for Nov. 18 at 7:30 a.m. The request is for a courtesy review, and no action will be taken.[/IMG]

[AZ71]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Wow! First solid new skyline addition in quite a long time

https://azbex.com/planning-developme...ucson-gateway/



[IMG]The I-10 entryway to downtown Tucson may get a major skyline update with a planned 17-story multifamily and commercial development scheduled for a courtesy review before the Rio Nuevo Area Design Review Board this week.

471 W. Congress St. is currently an approximately 5.73-acre vacant lot at the SEC of West Congress Street and the South Freeway frontage road in the Rio Nuevo Area of the Downtown Infill Incentive Districts.

According to the plan submitted by developer UrbanStreet Group, “This Project is located at a key gateway to downtown Tucson from Interstate 10. The goal is to celebrate this entrance to downtown Tucson by constructing a signature building with landscaping and signage to create an entry feature announcing and celebrating this important gateway.”

Plans call for ground floor retail and restaurant space with 354 dwelling units on the floors above and an enclosed parking area with 459 spaces. The total area will be slightly more than 562KSF, and the total height is planned for 193’6” with rooftop mechanical components included. Maximum permitted height under the current zoning is 300 feet.

As noted in the submission, dwelling units will start with 10 units (9,443 rentable SF) on the third floor and increase to 23 units (20,245 RSF) on the fourth. Floors five through 16 will then have 26 units (21,998RSF/floor), and the 17th floor will have nine units (7,420RSF).

The concrete and glass design includes an extensive tenant amenity set, with a lobby lounge, a bike room and workshop space, storage lockers on each level, a business and party room, a fitness area, a rooftop pool deck with cooking spaces and a 17th floor outdoor deck.

Twenty-four-hour street level activity is one of the stated design standards for the development area. To that end, the submittal states: “We too would encourage as much street level activity as possible. This Property is unique in that the entire western boundary is I-10, which creates a separation between the east and west areas of downtown. The future Greenway connection will increase foot and bicycle traffic around the Property. The existing bus stop directly adjacent to the Property will also guarantee commuter traffic on Congress Street. Perhaps future projects in the development district could help to even further the promotion of activity around the site.”

The site is part of the Grant Road Investment District Urban Overlay District, which maintains existing zoning for properties while also allowing optional zoning to encourage development. Several properties and sites along Grant are vacant, and the road’s multi-phase improvement project has created several parcels that are irregularly shaped and not easily redeveloped under the existing zoning. The UOD is intended to provide enhanced development possibilities.

Among the elements incorporated into the GRID process are:

Reduced setbacks,
Parking relief with neighborhood protection factored in,
An enhanced pedestrian environment,
Transit connection support,
Taller buildings, and
Green infrastructure.
A major review under the GRID can take four-to-six months, according to the City’s information sheet. The required steps consist of:

A pre-application conference,
A neighborhood meeting,
A formal application submittal,
Application processing by the Planning and Development Services Department, which may include reviews and recommendations from the City Design Professional, City of Tucson Historic Commission, and the GRID Design Review Board, and
Decision issuance by PDSD.
The current project team is comprised of developer UrbanStreet Group LLC, design firm Antunovich Associates, landscape architects Novak Environmental and civil engineer Psomas. The project is represented by Lazarus & Silvyn.

The DRB meeting is scheduled for Nov. 18 at 7:30 a.m. The request is for a courtesy review, and no action will be taken.[/IMG]

It's not going to change the skyline much. It's only 193 feet. It's smaller than the Tucson House on Drachman and the new Banner Hospital addition. Plus its location is downhill a bit from the proper downtown area where the other buildings are. One South Church is at an elevation of 2388ft. This new building is at 2356ft. So you're losing 36 feet in visual size too. So the illusion will be even smaller. You wont even see it from images of downtown looking west from an eastside vantage point. But the development is good for sure. It's just not going to change our skyline much.

[Eapiwo]

Originally Posted by AZ71

It's not going to change the skyline much. It's only 193 feet. It's smaller than the Tucson House on Drachman and the new Banner Hospital addition. Plus its location is downhill a bit from the proper downtown area where the other buildings are. One South Church is at an elevation of 2388ft. This new building is at 2356ft. So you're losing 36 feet in visual size too. So the illusion will be even smaller. You wont even see it from images of downtown looking west from an eastside vantage point. But the development is good for sure. It's just not going to change our skyline much.

I agree that it won't be the most game changing building to the skyline, but I think it'll still be a solid addition, the most solid addition in the last 40 years. It will be the 4th tallest building in that part of the city. Density of relatively tall buildings makes a skyline look better, even if the buildings aren't the tallest. Even the little low rises we've gotten in the last decade have helped with that a bit. Visually, IMO, downtown now looks less like an office park and more like a true neighborhood when looking at it from afar. It's even better when you're walking around downtown. It feel alive and is just genuinely a great place to be. This proposed building is in a pretty prominent location and will be visible by everyone on I-10 and the building's longest side will be facing Tumamoc Hill and Sentinel Peak, where a lot of the city's skyline pictures are taken. Entering downtown from Congress will really feel like you're in a real city when the lot that's been abandoned for decades is finally filled in.

I really like the trend that downtown's newer proposed buildings are increasing in height. The average floors for new buildings downtown seems to have gone from 4-5 about 8 years ago to 6-7, and now seems to be in the 10-17. That's a good trend that might eventually get us our new tallest(s) in the not so distant future. That indicates that the market supports the height. Having a market support building taller is the best case scenario for getting taller buildings (as opposed to putting a bunch of effort to building tall for the sake of it). If you look at Austin, Texas, their downtown went through the same sort of gradual change. Once the market started supporting building really tall buildings, it just kept pumping out new buildings. Between this proposal, the 13 story Opus project, and the 15 story Love Burger project, the skyline will be in really good shape.

Of course, the benefits these projects bring are much more than just height. IMO as I've looked around for apartments in Tucson, the city is just really lacking class A styled apartments. The nicest apartments in the metro seem to mostly be in Oro Valley, the foothills, and far east sides and require a good 30-40 minute drive to most employment centers. Downtown Tucson is an excellent place to build some of these projects as it's got rail and it's in the center of the metro. Other cities are building class A apartments like its nobody's business, and that may be helping them to attract new professionals. Phoenix seems to just be pumping out 200-300' tall apartments in the Roosevelt Row district lately with few signs of slowing. I wouldn't be surprised if Tucson follows suit and demand for these buildings continues. In fact, I'm more surprised that Tucson hasn't been. Looking ahead, I feel 75 Broadway would be an excellent place to put a new 300' tall residential tower.

Honestly, if Tucson built a few of these midrises and 2 or 3 towers that are in the 300-450' range, with the backdrop of the Rincons and Catalinas, we'd have one of the most pleasant looking skylines in North America. If we get 2-3k more apartments down there too, and made a plan to make street life a priority (wide sidewalks, trees, shade) then we'd have one of the most vibrant urban neighborhoods for cities our size.

[AZ71]

Originally Posted by Eapiwo

I agree that it won't be the most game changing building to the skyline, but I think it'll still be a solid addition, the most solid addition in the last 40 years. It will be the 4th tallest building in that part of the city. Density of relatively tall buildings makes a skyline look better, even if the buildings aren't the tallest. Even the little low rises we've gotten in the last decade have helped with that a bit. Visually, IMO, downtown now looks less like an office park and more like a true neighborhood when looking at it from afar. It's even better when you're walking around downtown. It feel alive and is just genuinely a great place to be. This proposed building is in a pretty prominent location and will be visible by everyone on I-10 and the building's longest side will be facing Tumamoc Hill and Sentinel Peak, where a lot of the city's skyline pictures are taken. Entering downtown from Congress will really feel like you're in a real city when the lot that's been abandoned for decades is finally filled in.

I really like the trend that downtown's newer proposed buildings are increasing in height. The average floors for new buildings downtown seems to have gone from 4-5 about 8 years ago to 6-7, and now seems to be in the 10-17. That's a good trend that might eventually get us our new tallest(s) in the not so distant future. That indicates that the market supports the height. Having a market support building taller is the best case scenario for getting taller buildings (as opposed to putting a bunch of effort to building tall for the sake of it). If you look at Austin, Texas, their downtown went through the same sort of gradual change. Once the market started supporting building really tall buildings, it just kept pumping out new buildings. Between this proposal, the 13 story Opus project, and the 15 story Love Burger project, the skyline will be in really good shape.

Of course, the benefits these projects bring are much more than just height. IMO as I've looked around for apartments in Tucson, the city is just really lacking class A styled apartments. The nicest apartments in the metro seem to mostly be in Oro Valley, the foothills, and far east sides and require a good 30-40 minute drive to most employment centers. Downtown Tucson is an excellent place to build some of these projects as it's got rail and it's in the center of the metro. Other cities are building class A apartments like its nobody's business, and that may be helping them to attract new professionals. Phoenix seems to just be pumping out 200-300' tall apartments in the Roosevelt Row district lately with few signs of slowing. I wouldn't be surprised if Tucson follows suit and demand for these buildings continues. In fact, I'm more surprised that Tucson hasn't been. Looking ahead, I feel 75 Broadway would be an excellent place to put a new 300' tall residential tower.

Honestly, if Tucson built a few of these midrises and 2 or 3 towers that are in the 300-450' range, with the backdrop of the Rincons and Catalinas, we'd have one of the most pleasant looking skylines in North America. If we get 2-3k more apartments down there too, and made a plan to make street life a priority (wide sidewalks, trees, shade) then we'd have one of the most vibrant urban neighborhoods for cities our size.

I agree with all you said. The problem is the direction of downtown. City officials and Rio Nuevo are really pushing office space downtown instead of residential towers. Why? I have no idea. But I hope they recalibrate their request for proposals. There were options on the table to change 75 E Broadway into a residential mixed-use after covid killed it...and and the developers said no. Covid killed the demand for office space. Phx ceased on it and built residential. Another problem that Rio Nuevo doesn't understand is businesses are building in various office parks. (The Bridges, UA Tech Park, Williams Centre, around Raytheon and east of airport). So they don't quite understand businesses that come to Tucson don't want to be downtown. I've even heard the Catepillar HQ we built for them is half empty.

Downtowns all over the country are becoming residential in nature with entertainment components with convention centers and gov't/city buildings. And many are including sporting venues in their core. Tucson has just refused to make that change. Once they do, I then think it will succeed.

Another big problem is we have a height cap. Its 300 ft. How One South Church was able to build to 330ft is beyond me. I think they built it and nimby's complained it was too tall so the city went in an capped the height at 300ft. So you'll never have a building taller unless they change that. People need to start complaining about this. I actually think its a hindrance. And downtown Tucson really doesn't have that many available plots that are open. They'd have to do some demolition of other buildings. But the smaller the parcel..the more likely they will go up. But they have to get rid of that 300 ft cap.

Granted...having a building on the westside will be nice from the freeway and looking east from the west. But again..the building isn't that big. But I do hope it will spur more development on that empty lot. (If Allan Norville will sell. He still owns it all. Thats why i wonder if this building will even happen being Nor-Gen's history of non-development).

But as for that area...I've proposed to many a pedestrian street with mixed-use retail, entertainment, restaurants/bars and residential on top of it all. Its a natural place for it since the hideous Flin replaced La Placita. Yes, La Placita was ugly, but it was the right concept for the area next to the TCC. Now convention center attendees really have no place to walk to eat or relax. They have to get up to the Congress area for options. It's an opportunity if the city and RN will cease on it. And convince Norville to continue to sell his land.

[Eapiwo]

Originally Posted by AZ71

But as for that area...I've proposed to many a pedestrian street with mixed-use retail, entertainment, restaurants/bars and residential on top of it all. Its a natural place for it since the hideous Flin replaced La Placita. Yes, La Placita was ugly, but it was the right concept for the area next to the TCC. Now convention center attendees really have no place to walk to eat or relax. They have to get up to the Congress area for options. It's an opportunity if the city and RN will cease on it. And convince Norville to continue to sell his land.

Yep! I agree with your post. I think the Norville site has so much potential to improve our city. There's enough bright minds in Tucson to come together and design something really remarkable for the community there. I'd love to see a really well designed pedestrian street there, but one with better planning than the La Placita site had. I'd love too, if the landscape design takes inspiration from the environment that had existed along the Santa Cruz River. Maybe there could be a way to build a shallow, reclaimed pond with room for cottonwood trees to return, and grow massive as they once had in that area, or allow a bit of a mesquite bosque to grow again. Even just planting a bunch of strategically placed palo verdes could create a beautiful, photogenic scene when they bloom, similar to Mexico City's Jacaranda trees.
Get some tall apartment buildings to surround the plaza or pedestrian street and you'd have a really awesome scene. That'd be the dream site to see be used to its maximum potential.

As for the city's height limits, I think the downtown core doesn't need any additional restrictions other than what Davis Monthan requires but it doesn't seem that anyone's contested them in 30 years so that might just be something the city deals with if anyone ever questions it.

[Obadno]

I didnt expect the Tucson forum to be more negative than the Phoenix forum

[AZ71]

Does anyone know anything about the presentation to Rio Nuevo today (Friday, Nov 18) for this new Tucson Gateway project by the Chicago firm?

[omarainza]

Originally Posted by Eapiwo

Yep! I agree with your post. I think the Norville site has so much potential to improve our city. There's enough bright minds in Tucson to come together and design something really remarkable for the community there. I'd love to see a really well designed pedestrian street there, but one with better planning than the La Placita site had. I'd love too, if the landscape design takes inspiration from the environment that had existed along the Santa Cruz River. Maybe there could be a way to build a shallow, reclaimed pond with room for cottonwood trees to return, and grow massive as they once had in that area, or allow a bit of a mesquite bosque to grow again. Even just planting a bunch of strategically placed palo verdes could create a beautiful, photogenic scene when they bloom, similar to Mexico City's Jacaranda trees.
Get some tall apartment buildings to surround the plaza or pedestrian street and you'd have a really awesome scene. That'd be the dream site to see be used to its maximum potential.

i was just dreaming about this not too long ago. something along the lines of the friendship japanese garden in phoenix or battery park citys greenways. its a beautiful place for a nice botanic area that isnt crap (like TBG)

[andrewsaturn]

Originally Posted by AZ71

Does anyone know anything about the presentation to Rio Nuevo today (Friday, Nov 18) for this new Tucson Gateway project by the Chicago firm?

I think they had a meeting with the Tucson design and review board where they give recommendations for compliance with code but this particular meeting was just to learn about it without giving the recommendations.

There was one NIMBY resident who lives four blocks away at the beginning of the meeting that thinks the proposed development is not compliant with the height scale variation and that the materials used for the design which is glass and concrete is not within code as well. (A whole bunch of bologna).

Some additional renderings are provided as well in the meeting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teQs6GY_Q7w

[andrewsaturn]

Courtesy of ADS

In case you haven't noticed or been, The Landing (owned by Bourn Cos) on Tucson's SW side has burgeoned into a multi-retail center with tenants such as Planet Fitness, Chipotle, Eegees, Chick-fil-A, In-N-Out, Taco Bell, Krispy Creme, and Sprouts. Now under construction is an entertainment venue called Main Event, making it's first entry into the Tucson market. The 65 acre site is currently in development of a 3 story 200 apartment complex ranging from studio to 3 bedroom apartments. Opening date is Summer 2024. Expect more tenants to be announced for Phase 3.

All of this retail is located on the NW corner of I-19 and Irvington which doesn't include The Tucson Spectrum directly to the South. This portion includes Target, Home Depot, Harkins Theaters, and a new Steak house called the Hideout.


Courtesy of ADS
https://tucson.com/news/local/subscr...da7ae5b6e.html

https://www.hcwdevelopment.com/proje...ding-tucson-az