NEW YORK | Port Authority Bus Terminal Replacement

[BrownTown]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

but moving it around in manhattan is a pointless waste of time and $.

I don't think they really have a choice do they? Isn't the current terminal comming up on it's useful lifespan?

[yankeesfan1000]

^ He's talking about moving it to NJ.

[BBMW]

I'm sorry, but it's just straight up and down idiotic to bring 8,000 diesel buses a day down 495, down the helix, through the tunnel and into the PABT. Keep the buses somewhere in Secaucus, where they belong, and use the subway get them into and around Manhattan. I really don't care in NJ commuters have to change trains.

And doing so allows the real estate taken up by the current PABT and ramps to be used to finance the project. And, as I said before, even more land could be harvested by roofing over some of the tunnel approaches.

Originally Posted by streetscaper

I don't like the idea of the PABT in Jersey. Many, many people (probably most) will have to take 3 modes of transportation instead of two:

Bus -> 7 Train in NJ -> XYZ Train in Manhattan





Since so many train lines stop at the Times Sq station connected to PABT, the new NJ scheme would be quite a step back from the current setup:

Bus -> XYZ train in Manhattan





I support building the new station between 9th and 11th Ave in Manhattan. I don't see how it can divide the neighborhood more than the current mess of ramps there now.

[nyc_alex]

There are some other issues with sending buses to Secaucus, not that they can't be worked out:

1) Some buses come south down River Road via Weehawken or north from Hoboken. Routing them all the way to Secaucus to catch a train would be crazy.
2) Inter-city buses still need somewhere to go

Seems like there is still a need for a smaller terminal for some NJ transit and all inter-city in Manhattan, then route most NJ transit buses to a subway stop in Secaucus. Of course, this would be the most expensive option.

#1 could be fixed with an additional subway stop in either North Hoboken or Weehawken, where buses could unload. #2 would need more creativity. I'd have no problem forcing them to distribute on streets around the city.

[streetscaper]

Originally Posted by BBMW

I'm sorry, but it's just straight up and down idiotic to bring 8,000 diesel buses a day down 495, down the helix, through the tunnel and into the PABT. Keep the buses somewhere in Secaucus, where they belong, and use the subway get them into and around Manhattan. I really don't care if NJ commuters have to change trains.

And doing so allows the real estate taken up by the current PABT and ramps to be used to finance the project. And, as I said before, even more land could be harvested by roofing over some of the tunnel approaches.

Well, I do. Asking hundreds of thousands of people to potentially downgrade their commute is a major concern IMO. Have you ever taken two trains and a bus to get to and from work everyday? It's awful. If this is what happens, I seriously think bus ridership will go down as many people will just drive to or get dropped off at Secaucus Junction to take the train. Leading to more cars on the road in general and more congestion around the potential new station.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Most people in NJ want either a one seat train ride or a one seat bus ride into Manhattan. Once in Manhattan you usually have to switch at least twice to reach the major employers. A lot of people on here don't seem understand the transit issues of NJ...this will not fix anyone. Hence why I push for the Subway to go to Hoboken Terminal. People seem to think that is a downgrade but you can build a bus terminal next to or near the Terminal itself. The 7 would replace an overcrowded bus route from Hoboken to Midtown & Hoboken Terminal itself is underused... So you could easily double capacity and add some Intercity trains in aswell. Secaucus is a wetland and an Industrialized area not much room for redevelopment. Its also a Flood zone.

[C.]

http://www.capitalnewyork.com/articl...minal-overhaul

Cuomo appointee embraces stickler role in bus terminal overhaul

Don’t get the wrong idea. Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s top guy at the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey doesn’t want to make things any harder for New Jersey’s commuters to get into the 42nd Street bus terminal.

Yes, Scott Rechler knows a new bus terminal is needed, because the old one is notoriously unpleasant and the concrete slabs that support it are weak.

“Clearly the existing bus terminal doesn’t work, right?” he said. “We know that. So we don’t have to go through that whole thing.”

He just doesn’t understand why there’s such a headlong rush to build that terminal one block west of the existing one — in the middle of one of the most congested parts of New York City’s densest borough — without first thinking through all the options.

“When you’re talking about a $10 billion project, you really need to make sure it’s well thought out,” said Rechler, during a recent interview in his 4 World Trade Center offices. “And the projects that haven’t been successful, the projects that have gone over-budget, are the projects that [were] done because it was politically valuable to move them forward before the planning was done.”

What Rechler thinks does matter in this debate about the future of cross-Hudson transportation.

After populating the Port Authority with the political appointees who orchestrated Bridgegate, Gov. Chris Christie has largely distanced himself from the agency he controls with his ally across the river, Gov. Andrew Cuomo.

Nor does Cuomo seem to care all that much about the terminal. His likely third term will end well before the new terminal gets built, and he’s got other infrastructure projects on his mind: a new rail tunnel to Jersey, a new LaGuardia Airport, a new Tappan Zee bridge.

In the unusual absence of elected-official involvement in the matter of conceptualizing the new bus terminal, Rechler gets to say what he thinks, and if he torpedoes the Port planning department’s carefully laid plans, so be it.

Last year, the Port Authority’s resident iconoclast was a Cuomo appointee named Ken Lipper — a banker, film producer and the rare voice in the authority boardroom arguing that the current, dreadful, over-capacity bus terminal west of Times Square had to go.

Today, Lipper’s argument is accepted wisdom and the disruptive voice belongs to Rechler instead.

“I, for one, am not going to vote for building a new bus terminal in New York City unless we have exhausted looking at alternatives that don’t bring in all the congestion into the city,” said Rechler in May.

With Rechler’s argument gaining sway among other board members — there are 12 members, and at the September board meeting, several echoed Rechler’s concerns — the Port Authority recently put off choosing a concept for a new West Side bus terminal for another year. It launched a design competition instead, one that explicitly allows competitors to consider other locations. It agreed to commission a study of alternative cross-Hudson commuting methods, too...

[C.]

Rechler: Not so fast on Port Authority Bus Terminal renovation

Scott Rechler thinks planners need to slow down and take another look at the Port Authority Bus Terminal redesign. The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey board member and head of RXR Realty said politics, not sound planning, are currently pushing the planned project forward. “When you’re talking about a $10 billion project, you really need to make sure it’s well thought out,” Rechler told Politico. “And the projects that haven’t been successful, the projects that have gone over-budget, are the projects that [were] done because it was politically valuable to move them forward before the planning was done.”

The developer suggested a different approach: corral commuters into the mass transit system before they cross the river into Manhattan. He proposed the construction of a new bus terminal on the New Jersey side of the river, which would allow passengers to reach NJ Transit via the planned Gateway tunnel under the Hudson River, Politico reported.

Scott Rechler, a personal thank you and please champion this for the people of New York and New Jersey. Please also use the Port Authority's immunity from local zoning to redevelop the existing site with at least 10 million sqft of development! This is too important of a development to be caught up in New York City's antiquated zoning.

[BBMW]

Then they can take NJT straight in.

Let's be honest here. The buses make up for NJ underinvestment in mass transit. If NJ wants to keep it that way, fine, but let that state and it's resident deal with the fallout. Just don't keep pumping buses we don't need or want into NYC.

Originally Posted by streetscaper

Well, I do. Asking hundreds of thousands of people to potentially downgrade their commute is a major concern IMO. Have you ever taken two trains and a bus to get to and from work everyday? It's awful. If this is what happens, I seriously think bus ridership will go down as many people will just drive to or get dropped off at Secaucus Junction to take the train. Leading to more cars on the road in general and more congestion around the potential new station.

[chris08876]

Where a new Port Authority Bus Terminal would spur development

When Extell Development opened the 60-story, 551-unit Orion building at 350 W. 42nd St. in 2006, the 630-foot tower was not only the tallest residential property in the Times Square area, it was one of the 100 highest residential buildings in the world at the time.

It was also a supreme gamble.

The Orion was full of luxury condos in a gritty slice of Manhattan where rentals dominated the residential market. Yet, within a year of sales starting, every one of the tower’s condos had sold, all for more than $1,000 per square foot. Extell’s gamble, made with financial backing from private equity giant the Carlyle Group, was one of the earliest and loudest success stories of New York’s prerecession real estate boom.

History could soon repeat itself. The area is being eyed for a public infrastructure project that would cost billions and spark other new development.

In late October, the board of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey approved a design competition for a new bus terminal to replace the aging, hulking structure at 625 Eighth Ave. that services around 8,000 buses daily. The competition calls for the new depot to be on a Ninth Avenue site one block west of the current one. Designers could pitch alternative sites.

The message was clear: The push was on to replace the world’s busiest bus depot. And paying for it figures to create opportunities for other projects.

The Port Authority estimated that a fresh terminal would cost up to $10 billion. To raise funds, the agency said it would sell the approximately 2.3 million square feet of air rights above the current terminal. Given that air rights in Manhattan can trade for up to $300 a square foot, that translates into a maximum of $690 million in today’s money, never mind years down the road, when construction would actually begin. That is not nearly enough for the whole project, but perhaps enough to get started.

A buyer with such air rights in hand could then build another soaring tower for the block, similar to the Orion a decade ago, and reap similar returns.

==========================
http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...lier-effect-on

[C.]

Dear future participants in the International Design Competition to replace the Port Authority Bus Terminal. As you use Google and do some preliminary research, I hope you're getting the hints on what will make a successful, winning proposal.

Each design that is submitted must include cost of construction, estimated operating costs, and revenue from potential construction above the new terminal site, and on the site of the existing terminal, for commercial and residential development. Revenue from potential development could cover 2/3rd of the construction costs.

The 2.3 million sqft of air rights is inaccurate. The true number for the current bus terminal site, including all access roads, is closer to 5 million. Additionally, the Port Authority voluntarily submits its lands to local zoning, but Port Authority-owned land has been granted immunity to local zoning in its interstate compact authorized by the United States Congress and approved by the legislatures of New York and New Jersey. This is one of the few cases were any political pushback by the city of New York may be worth the millions in extra development rights by utilizing the legally granted zoning immunity. (I believe the last time it was used on this scale was during the development of the original World Trade Center.)

New terminal is estimated to cost $10 billion, air rights can be sold for $300 per sqft, and Port Authority desires to have at least 2/3rds of the cost paid for by air rights. As architects, you control two of the three variables. Don't disappoint us; Spanish architects named Calatrava need not apply.

Participants in the design competition are encouraged to suggest alternative sites for a different PABT if their analysis determines that the current site is not optimal.

Hint two: find another site that where the cost to build will be a lot less than $10 billion, such as in New Jersey! Have it near a PATH or NJ Transit rail line for access to Manhattan. In fact, preliminary plans for a bus terminal at Secaucus Junction already exist and can be found here: http://www.nycedc.com/sites/default/...April_2013.pdf

Finally, for both the current site of the PABT and the new site of the PABT, make sure the plans include provisions for substantial towers to be constructed above each site, along with an analysis of how much revenue in air rights can be generated at full build out. The current PABT will be demolished, so the developers will have a clean state. The new PABT should be designed to support towers literally above the station.

I will personally show up at every Port Authority board meeting and campaign against any proposal which does not take full advantage of the air rights to help fund the replacement PABT.

[Cynicism]

.

[chris08876]

Gotham’s infamous bus depot gets a makeover

A makeover is finally coming to the regularly derided Port Authority Bus Terminal.

Servicing 125,000 people a day, all those daily travelers and commuters are just what the retailers order. “It’s the foot traffic,” says Jodi Pulice, chief executive of JRT Realty Group.

Pulice, along with JRT’s Kelly Simek and joint venture partner Cushman & Wakefield, are working for the Port Authority to re-tenant the bus terminal’s 150,000 square feet of retail plus another 13,000 square feet along Ninth Avenue.

Construction has begun on actions that will take the “ugh” out of the experience. “That’s what we are changing,” says Pulice. “The perception.”

Currently, the main Hudson News is centered in a corridor so travelers must walk around it. “We are taking it away so people will be able to see both sides of retailers,” says Pulice.

All of Hudson’s 10 stores are being remodeled to the terminal’s new uniform retail design with white, cloudy smoked glass. Some will become Hudson convenience stores like those at the airports.

“It will look tighter and organized and will brighten it up,” she says.

Hudson News’ new spot on the second floor opened this fall with the new glass as did Bolton’s, Strawberry’s and Duane Reade.

Buses are also being relocated from a left side of an entrance area so more stores will be added to that area.

All the ticketing locations have already been moved and gates reassigned to make way for improvements that include upgrades to the ceilings, mechanicals and Wi-Fi.

“The Port Authority Board is very much in tune to making it a better place and a more pleasant,” Pulice says.

A new food court deal is on its way with “cool food” and a wider variety, “whether Italian or a bagel place.” A 10-year lease with OHM Concession Group will bring around $15.2 million to the Port for three spaces totaling 5,943 square feet.

The food court will take the place of Deli Plus and the U.S. Postal Service, which will close at the end of January. Jamba Juice will move to its east. Wine retailers and even an upscale candy store are also being targeted.

“We know the food is all grab-and-go, but we want to provide a healthier, classier choice in a variety of stores,” Pulice explains.

Food places will also be added to the underground waiting areas so there is more activity.

==========================
http://nypost.com/2016/01/21/respect...ts-a-makeover/

[C.]

Port Authority to launch design contest to replace bus terminal

One of Rechler’s chief concerns is that the Lincoln Tunnel and the area of Manhattan known as Hell’s Kitchen, located west of 8th Avenue between 34th and 59th streets, will not be able to cope with a predicted 40 percent growth in bus passengers over the next 25 years. Rechler hopes to find a way of moving bus passengers onto an expanded PATH system or linking up to a new trans-Hudson rail tunnel being planned as part of the $23.9 billion Gateway program.

Foye said that the Port Authority will select a firm to carry out the commuter study in the coming weeks and that the study’s findings will be fed into the design competition as the study progresses.

Commissioners are still hoping to hit a September 2016 deadline of choosing a winning design, which they set for themselves last year, according to an agency official.

http://www.northjersey.com/news/port...inal-1.1514239

hmmm....


That would be PATH and NJ Transit into Manhattan for the interim before the 7 eventually makes it over there.

[Dac150]

It's a step in the right direction. I look forward to seeing what architects come up with.

[C.]

The motherfuckers at the Port Authority are pushing their original unimaginative 5 concepts for the design competition. Woefully inadequate that will do noting for future capacity and brining buses into Manhattan instead of rail. This is contrary to the directions from the Port Authority board to consider alternate locations than a replacement station at 9th Avenue.

http://www.panynj.gov/bus-terminals/...al-design.html

[Nexis4Jersey]

Originally Posted by CIA

Port Authority to launch design contest to replace bus terminal



http://www.northjersey.com/news/port...inal-1.1514239

hmmm....


That would be PATH and NJ Transit into Manhattan for the interim before the 7 eventually makes it over there.

Useless since the NJT has a connection to the PATH at Hoboken & Newark. The Hoboken lines are underused while the Journal Square and Newark lines are at capacity...

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by CIA

The motherfuckers at the Port Authority are pushing their original unimaginative 5 concepts for the design competition. Woefully inadequate that will do noting for future capacity and brining buses into Manhattan instead of rail. This is contrary to the directions from the Port Authority board to consider alternate locations than a replacement station at 9th Avenue.

http://www.panynj.gov/bus-terminals/...al-design.html

This is all about capacity improvements. Not sure why you think it "will do nothing for future capacity" as that is the entire point.

The PABT terminal is going to be demolished and relocated as there is inadequate capacity in the existing site. Now whether an alternate proposal makes sense or not is another question but the whole point is capacity.

[C.]

Crawford, out of the 5 concepts being pushed, some increase capacity from current levels, others don't, and none increase to meet 2040 ridership projections. (May be wrong, but will take a closer look tonight.)

My concern is all 5 concepts do nothing regarding the number of buses entering Manhattan, clogging up the tunnels and local streets. The new plan should divert as many people as possible to transhudson trains.

[C.]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

Useless since the NJT has a connection to the PATH at Hoboken & Newark. The Hoboken lines are underused while the Journal Square and Newark lines are at capacity...

Far from ideal, but where would be a suitable site for a PABT replacement if not at Secaucus or Manhattan. Hoboken would never support the deal, but I suppose the Hoboken Terminal lands within Jersey City might.