Remote work is here to stay: Manhattan may never be the same

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

Why on Earth would you not care about them moving? Who do you think pays for all the massive government programs in NYC? It isn't the poor.

Me.

[The North One]

Are we so sure it's not the poor? Actually I'd say the poor are propping up the entire system while the filthy rich evade taxes and pay a lower tax rate proportional to their wealth than the middle class.

[Camelback]

Originally Posted by The North One

Are we so sure it's not the poor? Actually I'd say the poor are propping up the entire system while the filthy rich evade taxes and pay a lower tax rate proportional to their wealth than the middle class.

The poor are absolutely not "propping up the entire system". The poor do pay a disproportionate amount of take-home pay (through city sales taxes), but the "wealthy" basically pay for everything else.

I'm neither poor nor wealthy btw.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by The North One

Are we so sure it's not the poor? Actually I'd say the poor are propping up the entire system while the filthy rich evade taxes and pay a lower tax rate proportional to their wealth than the middle class.

Socialism has fried your brain cells.

If someone makes 25k a year, how much do they pay in taxes? Lets add two kids that go to public schools to the mix.

Now, someone who makes 500k a year, how much do they pay in taxes? Let's assume they are smart and keep their kids out of public schools, how much does that save the city?

[pip]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

Despite having 2 million more people, Florida's state budget is HALF the size of New Yorks. Is live twice as good in New York? The data on incoming and outgoing migration would suggest a big fat NO.

And NY is suggesting raising taxes. It's almost as if they are planning on failing at this point.

You have to also look at that NY state sends $24.1 billion dollars or $1216 per person more to the Federal government than it receives back whereas Florida gets 62.4 billion, or $2977 per person more back than it pays.

another example: federal taxes and received back
Illinois - loses $14.8 billion total or -$1158 per person
Arkansas - gains $12.7 billion or $4255 person

California - loses $13.7 billion total or -$348 per person

[JManc]

New York isn't just New York City (with a sizable amount of upper middle class and beyond) who can weather a tax hike but a whole state full of depressed wage earners who are already saddled under high income, property and local taxes. This will hasten the desire to leave to more affordable states with lower costs of living.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by pip

You have to also look at that NY state sends $24.1 billion dollars or $1216 per person more to the Federal government than it receives back whereas Florida gets 62.4 billion, or $2977 per person more back than it pays.

another example: federal taxes and received back
Illinois - loses $14.8 billion total or -$1158 per person
Arkansas - gains $12.7 billion or $4255 person

California - loses $13.7 billion total or -$348 per person

Good point. However, Florida still makes do with a lot less than NY even after accounting for the fed issue.. Also, a large portion of that fed money is because of retirees? (I don't know that, legit question)

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by pip

You have to also look at that NY state sends $24.1 billion dollars or $1216 per person more to the Federal government than it receives back whereas Florida gets 62.4 billion, or $2977 per person more back than it pays.

another example: federal taxes and received back
Illinois - loses $14.8 billion total or -$1158 per person
Arkansas - gains $12.7 billion or $4255 person

California - loses $13.7 billion total or -$348 per person

A good deal of federal spending that gets counted in these calculations is military bases. States that rank best tend to be smaller in population but heavily militarized. Florida's panhandle (even though Florida is not a small state in population) is dominated by the military and there is also a sizable military presence around Jacksonville and in the Tampa and Key West areas.

Besides the major bases like NAS Pensacola, CentCom (Central Command) and Mayport Naval Station/NAS Jax, there are many smaller ones:


https://www.google.com/search?client...fi=hd:;si:;mv:[[31.505334804357798,-80.68694992187501],[24.967953580309068,-87.89398117187501],null,[28.286794792258608,-84.29046554687501],7]

Some consumer retail in the areas of these bases benefits substantially but it is arguable how much the average citizen benefits.

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

Despite having 2 million more people, Florida's state budget is HALF the size of New Yorks. Is live twice as good in New York? The data on incoming and outgoing migration would suggest a big fat NO.

And NY is suggesting raising taxes. It's almost as if they are planning on failing at this point.

Old America is paying pensions. Florida is big military and big old folks cashing in entitlements, often from out of state.

[ue]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

Socialism has fried your brain cells.

If someone makes 25k a year, how much do they pay in taxes? Lets add two kids that go to public schools to the mix.

Now, someone who makes 500k a year, how much do they pay in taxes? Let's assume they are smart and keep their kids out of public schools, how much does that save the city?

Wrong. Neoliberal austerity has rotted your brain.

[pip]

California gets the highest in military spending at $49 billion and still manages to lose in federal spending almost $14 billion.

New York state gets 11.6 billion a year
Florida gets 29.8 billion a year
the difference between New York and Florida federal spending is $86.5 billion but the military spending difference is only $18.2 billion

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by pip

California gets the highest in military spending at $49 billion and still manages to lose in federal spending almost $14 billion.

New York state gets 11.6 billion a year
Florida gets 29.8 billion a year
the difference between New York and Florida federal spending is $86.5 billion but the military spending difference is only $18.2 billion

Please site your reference and/or the year.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

Socialism has fried your brain cells.

If someone makes 25k a year, how much do they pay in taxes? Lets add two kids that go to public schools to the mix.

Now, someone who makes 500k a year, how much do they pay in taxes? Let's assume they are smart and keep their kids out of public schools, how much does that save the city?

Not sure how it's in the US, but down here in Brazil the poor actually pay a good share of taxes.

They also don't pay or pay very little income taxes, but they pay a lot indirectly, through consumption. If they go to the supermarket, where most of their income go, they'll pay taxes.

The rich, on the other hand, have several ways to avoid taxes and in the end of the day, they pay almost zero. For inheritance transmission, it's 4% only. No wonder income inequality is extremely high as wealth passes from generation to generation, regardless how competent and hardworking are the new ones.

[Crawford]

It's the same here. The wealthy in the U.S. often pay less than the working class, because investment wealth is taxed lower than income, and because most taxes are flat (state income, user and sales tax are usually all flat).

[MolsonExport]

The rich take way, way more out of the system than they put into the system. The systems disproportionately redistributes resources upwards, to the wealthy. The bs about how much, in absolute terms, they pay in taxes, is a red herring. "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." (JK Galbraith)

start with Piketty for an easy read on the subject.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by Crawford

It's the same here. The wealthy in the U.S. often pay less than the working class, because investment wealth is taxed lower than income, and because most taxes are flat (state income, user and sales tax are usually all flat).

In Brazil, several types of investment wealth are not taxed at all, inheritance tax is abysmal low and real estate taxes quite low.

Big money is taxed heavily through companies, whereas the owners, shareholders are not taxed at all. Needless to say companies are not the ones paying the taxes, but the consumers of their goods and services as they're all passed to the final price.

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

The rich take way, way more out of the system than they put into the system. The systems disproportionately redistributes resources upwards, to the wealthy. The bs about how much, in absolute terms, they pay in taxes, is a red herring. "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." (JK Galbraith)

start with Piketty for an easy read on the subject.

Exactly. Unlike the liberals (European/Latin American sense) preach, the capitalist system, the rich, are the ones who benefit from the state power, the law and order, the status quo. If the whole system descends into the chaos, all their fortune becomes dust.

[montréaliste]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

The rich take way, way more out of the system than they put into the system. The systems disproportionately redistributes resources upwards, to the wealthy. The bs about how much, in absolute terms, they pay in taxes, is a red herring. "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." (JK Galbraith)

start with Piketty for an easy read on the subject.

Yup, in a nutshell. I am amazed at how many people defend the billionaires' agenda from their humble standpoint. Wannabeism I suppose.

Just look at the support for Donald J Chump the last 5 years. They love the guy whose claim to fame in the media was his ominous two words; "You're Fired". Same guy claimed he would bring back industry and jobs to the US. It was never meant to be.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by montréaliste

Yup, in a nutshell. I am amazed at how many people defend the billionaires' agenda from their humble standpoint. Wannabeism I suppose.

Just look at the support for Donald J Chump the last 5 years. They love the guy whose claim to fame in the media was his ominous two words; "You're Fired". Same guy claimed he would bring back industry and jobs to the US. It was never meant to be.

I don't think the defense of the wealthy is really "wannabeism." I think some people are just very comfortable living in a hierarchy, thinking it's the natural order of the world for there to be "big fish" and "little fish." They don't even have to the biggest fish themselves - so long as they aren't at the bottom of the pyramid.

[mrnyc]

as long as they repeal the salt tax deduction cap trump forced to steal our money to throw to his welfare state red meaters who stole and wasted it anyway i'm good.

[Crawford]

Or if the big fish ensures that they aren't the lowest fish, they're satisfied.

I'm sure that many working-class Trump diehards were well aware they weren't deriving much economic benefit from Trumpism, but they're confident he was harming (or trying to harm) blacks, Hispanics, immigrants, gays, transgender, etc. meaning they won't be on the bottom rung.

The mostly destitute whites of the post-Reconstruction south were fervent supporters of plantation economies, not because they derived direct economic benefit, but because their perceived rival was under attack. Enemy of my enemy is my friend, and all that.