Building Boom Set to Vault Toronto Past Chicago in Skyscraper Rankings

[Fresh]

Just been looking at Missisauga and it really is a crazy place - So many towers, so pedestrian hostile.

The parking lots are Square One make my head hurt.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by Fresh

Just been looking at Missisauga and it really is a crazy place - So many towers, so pedestrian hostile.

The parking lots are Square One make my head hurt.

Me too. Would probably be easier just to raze it and start over since a suburban shopping mall doesn't really make for much of a city centre.

[Nite]

Developments like this one announced today in suburban Toronto are what truly separates Toronto from any American city and what is increasing giving the region an identity of a giant metropolis and it is only one of many across the region

[Shawn]

Originally Posted by Nite

Developments like this one announced today in suburban Toronto are what truly separates Toronto from any American city and what is increasing giving the region an identity of a giant metropolis and it is only one of many across the region

No doubt the quality will be far better, but this rendering reads “Some city in China with 17 million people no one in North America has ever heard of”.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Me too. Would probably be easier just to raze it and start over since a suburban shopping mall doesn't really make for much of a city centre.

Maybe in 20-30 years when Mississauga City Centre gets built out they will raze Square One..... or at the very least rebuild it with retail at the base, towers above, and proper city streets. Maybe Square One will eventually have a similar relationship to MCC as the Eaton Centre has with downtown Toronto.

[Nite]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Maybe in 20-30 years when Mississauga City Centre gets built out they will raze Square One..... or at the very least rebuild it with retail at the base, towers above, and proper city streets. Maybe Square One will eventually have a similar relationship to MCC as the Eaton Centre has with downtown Toronto.

The mall is what has attracted all this development to the Square one area, without it being there the location would just have been filed with single-family housing. there is no way square one is going away anytime soon. The mall is also undergoing a multi-million dollar expansion. Mall throughout the GTA are some of the best locations for high-density housing that's why most GTA malls, with the space available, are all having huge towers build beside them ( Eaton Centre, Yorkdale, Sherway Gardens, Fairview Mall, Square One are all big malls in the GTA with huge development happening right beside them).

[isaidso]

^^ I'm aware of all that and I haven't said it would be dismantled. Even a re-configuration (with towers above retail) isn't tantamount to dismantling. It's intensification and replacing a parking lot with a normal road/sidewalk.

Originally Posted by Crawford

Toronto condos are generally much more affordable than SFH. 470k USD will generally not get you an intown, newer construction condo unit in a desirable locale in the U.S. In contrast, essentially no U.S. markets outside the Bay Area have such SFH prices.

Basically the U.S. has an oversupply of SFH, and Canada has an oversupply of multifamily, both owing to nonsensical, extreme policy decisions, with the U.S. going all-in on hyperlocal, fossilized NIMBY control, and Canada going all-in on migration ponzi.

LOL @ migration ponzi. So mass migration to the US isn't a ponzi scheme but mass migration to Canada is? I guess they're all going to be trouble when they realize their homes aren't real and their jobs are just mirages.

And Canada doesn't have an over supply of multi-family units. They have people living in them.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Acajack

My point was more that diversity is not really a universally recognized Toronto calling card.....

Beyond the fact that this gives them a relative assurance that as a person from Identifiable Group X they won't likely face extreme discrimination there, I don't really think most of them care about that stuff.

I'm not so sure about that. Immigrants certainly do look at how they can expect to be treated/how they will acclimatize in a potential new country.

[dc_denizen]

Actually

Tyson’s corner plan in Washington DC is very similar to those Mississauga projects.

Full buildout will house 100000 people, up from 14000 today , centered around a suburban mall and on a newly build subway line. This creates a new downtown for Fairfax county (pop 1 million)

Landmark mall and white flint mall , among others are similarly being reimagined with residential midrises

https://ggwash.org/view/73261/tysons...bona-fide-city

Similar redevelopment project next to amazon site

https://www.bizjournals.com/washingt...r-massive.html

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by isaidso

I'm not so sure about that. Immigrants certainly do look at how they can expect to be treated/how they will acclimatize in a potential new country.

That is what I said.

But I don't think most Russians, Koreans or Chileans who move to Toronto are that gung ho about having Abyssinian cuisine at the corner of the street, TV channels in Punjabi, etc.

Though most are probably not hostile, and simply indifferent.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by Nite

Developments like this one announced today in suburban Toronto are what truly separates Toronto from any American city and what is increasing giving the region an identity of a giant metropolis and it is only one of many across the region

Let's not oversell things.

If we’re "lucky", we might get 1/3 of that built in 15 years, and the buildings and public plaza components will almost certainly not look like that.

I also don't think these areas help give Toronto any more of a metropolitan identity. So far, the masterplanned suburban condo nodes that we've built have all mostly sucked.

[memph]

Originally Posted by Fresh

Just been looking at Missisauga and it really is a crazy place - So many towers, so pedestrian hostile.

The parking lots are Square One make my head hurt.

It's funny that on the same day you said that though, the owners of all those lands announced they'd redevelop them with highrises. I still think the highrises + wide streets model is not the best, but it does look like the parking lots are going to be gone, eventually.

It'll probably take a couple decades for everything to get built, City Place next to the CN Tower will have taken about 25 years from the ground breaking of the first project to the completion of the last towers a few years from now. The project announced for Square One will be more than twice as big, so even if the condo market is hotter than it was in the early 2000s, I expect this to take no less than 20 years. And the first proposal looks like it's going to be going on a green space rather than a parking lot. But eventually, maybe around 2050, those parking lots will be gone...

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Let's not oversell things.

If we’re "lucky", we might get 1/3 of that built in 15 years, and the buildings and public plaza components will almost certainly not look like that.

I also don't think these areas help give Toronto any more of a metropolitan identity. So far, the masterplanned suburban condo nodes that we've built have all mostly sucked.

I don't think that sucks. Just needs some more development over time.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by isaidso

LOL @ migration ponzi. So mass migration to the US isn't a ponzi scheme but mass migration to Canada is?

Correct. Canada has more than 3x the immigration rate of the U.S., yet much lower economic growth. Canada's economic growth is essentially entirely due to population growth via immigration.

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Correct. Canada has more than 3x the immigration rate of the U.S., yet much lower economic growth. Canada's economic growth is essentially entirely due to population growth via immigration.

Canada does have a slightly slower growth rate than the US but since the financial crisis they have basically been at par.

While it is true that a good chunk of Canada's growth is due to very high immigration numbers, conversely much of the US growth is due to a federal government running deficits of over US$1 Trillion which is money artificially pumped into the economy out of thin air. Right now Canada's federal deficit is roughly 1/7th the rate per person of the US.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Canada does have a slightly slower growth rate than the US but since the financial crisis they have basically been at par.

In 2018 (last available full year) Canadian economy grew by 1.8% and population grew by 1.5%. In contrast, U.S. economy grew by 2.9% and population grew by 0.5%.

So basically, Canada's growth is almost entirely due to population growth. It's not unfair to say that Canada's growth is presently dependent on historically unprecedented immigration inflows. Obviously it's a bit more complicated, as Canada is somewhat more energy-dependent, which has been a drag lately, but there is a ponzi-esque tradeoff being made.

Real estate (which is population growth, which is fed by immigration given birthrates are lower in Canada) is a much bigger part of the economy, and needs these dramatic inflows, at least in the immigration hubs, which is why you get unusual situations like Vancouver.

[Northern Light]

Originally Posted by Crawford

In 2018 (last available full year) Canadian economy grew by 1.8% and population grew by 1.5%. In contrast, U.S. economy grew by 2.9% and population grew by 0.5%.

Sure, but to fair, lets address deficit spending which is also artificial stimulus.


Canada 0.39% of GDP
US 4.6% of GDP

So let's take your population reduced totals and subtract those numbers.

Canada 0.3% - 0.39% = -0.01% (negative) growth.
US 2.4% - 4.6% = -2.2% (negative) growth.

Which 'ponzi' scheme is more concerning? (neither is good)

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Correct. Canada has more than 3x the immigration rate of the U.S., yet much lower economic growth. Canada's economic growth is essentially entirely due to population growth via immigration.

You should know better than cherry picking a few years of growth and then coming to ridiculous conclusions.... but you seem to do it repeatedly over and over and over. Economic growth periodically falls below population growth in every economy including the US. But according to you, when that happens its ponzi migration! So when the US economic growth rate goes negative that's US ponzi migration at play?

What's next, arguing that the world isn't warming because it was colder than normal one month?

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Acajack

That is what I said.

But I don't think most Russians, Koreans or Chileans who move to Toronto are that gung ho about having Abyssinian cuisine at the corner of the street, TV channels in Punjabi, etc.

Though most are probably not hostile, and simply indifferent.

Surely we are talking about racism, tolerance, ease of assimilation not restaurant choices.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by Northern Light

Sure, but to fair, lets address deficit spending which is also artificial stimulus.


Canada 0.39% of GDP
US 4.6% of GDP

So let's take your population reduced totals and subtract those numbers.

Canada 0.3% - 0.39% = -0.01% (negative) growth.
US 2.4% - 4.6% = -2.2% (negative) growth.

Which 'ponzi' scheme is more concerning? (neither is good)

GDP does not include all forms of government spending. For instance, transfer payments such as social security are not considered. That would change your conclusions, I think, but I disagree with your entire premise altogether anyway and a changed conclusion would still be based on that same faulty premise.