Does the Atlanta/Charlotte rivalry make sense?

[ATLMidcity]

Originally Posted by hauntedheadnc

Ignoring the rest, but it's illegal for cities to annex land in North Carolina now. This is to say that while Atlanta is surrounded by weensy little counties, each with a dozen or more municipalities which all hate Atlanta and each other, Charlotte is surrounded by larger counties with a dozen or more municipalities that all hate each other and Charlotte, and it's also home to vast tracts of suburbs that are part of the city of Charlotte, but still hate each other, hate Charlotte, and resent being part of it.

The dynamic is not all that different. It also bears pointing out that if you lived in Charlotte 24 years ago... Well, how different was Atlanta 24 years ago? How much does that translate into the way things are now?

1) Good to know the state has stopped Charlotte from gobbling up suburbia like Pac Man.

2) Atlanta's five core counties (Fulton, Gwinnett, Cobb, DeKalb and Clayton) currently have more than more than 3.7 million people and all are majority-minority in population. DIVERSITY is the new normal.

3) Charlotte's five core counties (Mecklenburg, Gaston, Union, Cabarrus, and York) currently have about 2 million people and I believe all are majority white.

4) Fulton and Mecklenburg counties each have over 1 million, but are completed different. Fulton is the 'Manhattan' of the metro with job centers stretching from
the world's busiest airport to downtown, Midtown, Buckhead, Perimeter and Alpharetta. Charlotte/Mecklenburg is the job center for Metrolina.

5) Charlotte is predominately suburban with a couple of pockets of urbanity. The city of Atlanta's northern half is more urban than it's southern half, and the metro's northern half is predominately white while the southern half is predominately black.

6) Charlotte is about 20-25 years behind Atlanta, IMHO.

[hauntedheadnc]

Originally Posted by ATLMidcity

1) Good to know the state has stopped Charlotte from gobbling up suburbia like Pac Man.

No it isn't, because that's been part of a concentrated attack on North Carolina's cities by the state's general assembly. It's punishment for not voting correctly, as the assembly sees such, and it's part of the reason that suburbs are now allowed to attach themselves like ticks to a dog's ass to cities and not have to pay a dime for the privilege anymore. Other floats in this hit parade include forcing district elections on cities that did not want them, adding seats to boards and commissions so as to dilute Democrat majorities, and outright stealing municipal assets -- in my own city the state stole from us control of our airport, expo center, and has made repeated attempts to steal the water system.

But that is neither here nor there.

2) Atlanta's five core counties (Fulton, Gwinnett, Cobb, DeKalb and Clayton) currently have more than more than 3.7 million people and all are majority-minority in population. DIVERSITY is the new normal.

3) Charlotte's five core counties (Mecklenburg, Gaston, Union, Cabarrus, and York) currently have about 2 million people and I believe all are majority white.

4) Fulton and Mecklenburg counties each have over 1 million, but are completed different. Fulton is the 'Manhattan' of the metro with job centers stretching from
the world's busiest airport to downtown, Midtown, Buckhead, Perimeter and Alpharetta. Charlotte/Mecklenburg is the job center for Metrolina.

You misunderstood me. When I say "weensy little counties" I mean that counties in Georgia are physically tiny. You can piss the breadth of Fulton without straining yourself, and if you sneeze in Dekalb they can hear you in Gwinnett and bless you accordingly. Forget the infighting among the various municipalities in these weensy counties, just having so damned many of them to contend with has contributed to the regional dysfunction that is Atlanta. More county governments means more entities who will fight tooth and nail against any regional cooperation, which is why Atlanta is, however vibrant, the tangled, sprawling suburban mess she is. Even if municipalities want to hiss and spit and claw against regional planning, counties can usually bring them in line, but when there's thirty counties to contend with... Anywhere else there would likely be ten or fewer counties to have to negotiate with.

[KB0679]

Originally Posted by ATLMidcity

Atlanta and Charlotte are like night and day, with the only similarities being they are both regional cities within the burgeoning Southeastern U.S.

I lived in Charlotte for 14 years and currently live in Atlanta going on 24 years.

Charlotte has a bright future, but it's no Atlanta.

Heavy rail vs light rail
134 sq miles vs 297 sq miles
Land-locked Atlanta vs Annexation-happy Charlotte
Downtown Atlanta vs shiny Uptown Charlotte
Urban Midtown Atlanta vs suburban midtown Charlotte
Semi-urban Buckhead vs small suburban South Park
Hip-hop and R&B music culture vs Country old south music
The Black Mecca vs an exclusionary White dominant culture
A trend-setter vs a follower

I would go on, but I don't wanna start a fight.

This is silly and doesn't come close to making the 'point' you think it does.

[KB0679]

Originally Posted by hauntedheadnc

Ignoring the rest, but it's illegal for cities to annex land in North Carolina now. This is to say that while Atlanta is surrounded by weensy little counties, each with a dozen or more municipalities which all hate Atlanta and each other, Charlotte is surrounded by larger counties with a dozen or more municipalities that all hate each other and Charlotte, and it's also home to vast tracts of suburbs that are part of the city of Charlotte, but still hate each other, hate Charlotte, and resent being part of it.

The dynamic is not all that different. It also bears pointing out that if you lived in Charlotte 24 years ago... Well, how different was Atlanta 24 years ago? How much does that translate into the way things are now?

Wait...what municipalities in the Charlotte area "hate each other and Charlotte"? Regional cooperation is pretty darn good in metro Charlotte by most standards, even considering the fast-growing 'burbs on the other side of the state line. On the other hand, we all know that there's not nearly as much of that in metro Atlanta.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by ATLMidcity

Atlanta and Charlotte are like night and day, with the only similarities being they are both regional cities within the burgeoning Southeastern U.S.

This is bizarre.

What city on earth would be more similar to Atlanta, and to Charlotte? Tashkent? Chongqing? Lima? What's the difference between living in a McMansion in Alpharetta and one in Dilworth and taking your SUV to the Chik-fil-A, Dillards and Harris Teeter?

I mean, both are SE Sunbelt sprawl boomers popular with transplants and full of new economy workers. Similar demographics, weather, architecture, politics, lifestyles.

[ATLMidcity]

Originally Posted by Crawford

This is bizarre.

What city on earth would be more similar to Atlanta, and to Charlotte? Tashkent? Chongqing? Lima? What's the difference between living in a McMansion in Alpharetta and one in Dilworth and taking your SUV to the Chik-fil-A, Dillards and Harris Teeter?

I mean, both are SE Sunbelt sprawl boomers popular with transplants and full of new economy workers. Similar demographics, weather, architecture, politics, lifestyles.

Please explain how the demographics are similar? Atlanta is considered the world over to be a "black" city, while Charlotte is barely mentioned on Black Twitter.

And the politics??? Really. City council and county commission boards are largely majority white in Charlotte's surrounding counties. Charlotte/Mecklenburg just recently became majority democratic boards. Atlanta's surrounding counties, cities, school boards, fire departments, police departments, etc. have had major black and brown representation for decades.

Where is the diversity in Charlotte? Uptown Charlotte might as well be downtown Boston or Indianapolis - lilly white by design if you wanna be truthful.

Does Charlotte have any large subdivisions that are predominantly black where the entire neighborhood consists of $400,000 homes? Atlanta has too many to count.
The suburbs also have large subdivisions where Asians (Indians and Chinese ppl) live in expensive neighborhoods, exclusively. I don't think the same can be said of Charlotte.

Atlanta ebbs and flow every day, and if you spend any time in the city during the week you can fill the hustle and bustle of the city.

Charlotte only feels different when a large event (i.e. sporting event) is in town. Otherwise, it's the same old 9-5 city.
Even the locals in Atlanta can't keep up with what is going on in the city on a daily basis.

[L41A]

The biggest similarity is that both cities are in the Piedmont Region in the SE. The differences grow and grow after that.

[BG918]

Originally Posted by cabasse

atl has a lot more diversity and a good bit more developed culture - something that charlotte might have eventually. Atl is also a decent bit more well-known outside the US.

Well Atlanta did host the Olympics in 1996. Many other major US cities can’t say that.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by ATLMidcity

Please explain how the demographics are similar?

They're similar. Charlotte is somewhite whiter but still very AA for U.S. standards. Charlotte has a higher % AA and much lower % white than even Detroit. Asian and Latino % are the same, more or less.

Charlotte is 60% white, 4%, Asian, 11% Hispanic, 22% AA
https://censusreporter.org/profiles/...sc-metro-area/

Atlanta is 48% white, 6% Asian, 11% Hispanic, 32% AA
https://censusreporter.org/profiles/...prings-ga-csa/

Median income, % poverty, education levels and age distribution also largely the same. They're about as similar demographically as any two metros.

And race, by itself, is a very superficial way of comparing relative diversity. New Orleans has almost the same racial breakdown as Atlanta, but is quite different. NYC and SD have almost the same % white and Asian but are quite different.

[L41A]

Originally Posted by Crawford

They're similar. Charlotte is somewhite whiter but still very AA for U.S. standards. Charlotte has a higher % AA and much lower % white than even Detroit. Asian and Latino % are the same, more or less.

Charlotte is 60% white, 4%, Asian, 11% Hispanic, 22% AA
https://censusreporter.org/profiles/...sc-metro-area/

Atlanta is 48% white, 6% Asian, 11% Hispanic, 32% AA
https://censusreporter.org/profiles/...prings-ga-csa/

Median income, % poverty, education levels and age distribution also largely the same. They're about as similar demographically as any two metros.

And race, by itself, is a very superficial way of comparing relative diversity. New Orleans has almost the same racial breakdown as Atlanta, but is quite different. NYC and SD have almost the same % white and Asian but are quite different.

Perhaps, ATLMidCity could have used more nuance in his statements but once once you reach deeper past the superficial/surface traits (with topography being the most similar superficial trait), the differences between Atlanta and Charlotte can be significant.

Also, your comparison links are suspect. You used the CSA of Atlanta and MSA of Charlotte. Once you get into the northern exurbs of Atlanta and toward the mountains (which is the most white area of Georgia), the population percentage of whites increases which occurs when you used the Atlanta CSA.

Furthermore, the Black population of metro Atlanta is a lot more dispersed throughout the Atlanta metro area than it is in Charlotte. The 8 most core counties of Atlanta all have Black population over 29% - and constitute around 40% of the total population of that area.

While the 5 most core counties of Charlotte (which has nearly equal land size of Atlanta's 8 most core counties) only Mecklenburg has a population near 30% - the rest are below 20% with Black population constituting around 25% of that area.

So when you do a more apples to apples comparison (similar land area size around principal city), and not compare a CSA to a MSA, the demographics of racial makeup starts to diverge more significantly especially when it comes to Black and White populations of Atlanta and Charlotte.

• Atlanta 8 core counties - Black 41%, White (non-Hispanic) 39%
• Charlotte 5 core counties - Black 26% , White (non-Hispanic) 57%

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fa...rgia/PST045219

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by L41A

Also, your comparison links are suspect. You used the CSA of Atlanta and MSA of Charlotte.

No, I used CSA for both. And it doesn't matter, as both metro racial breakdowns don't vary by MSA or CSA. By MSA for both, you have the same outcomes.

[JAYNYC]

It might have made sense to include a poll within this thread that asked "Are Atlanta and Charlotte similar / comparable (Yes or No)". Would have been interesting to see how the results played out among this community.

[James Bond Agent 007]

Even when I was living in Charlotte in the 80's, there was talk about Charlotte vying with Atlanta for some kind of rivalry. But back then it was more of an 'in the future' anticipation thing.

[JAYNYC]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

Even when I was living in Charlotte in the 80's, there was talk about Charlotte vying with Atlanta for some kind of rivalry. But back then it was more of an 'in the future' anticipation thing.

My opinion here - nothing less, nothing more - Atlanta progressed much more substantially (across the board) than Charlotte between 1975-1995.

[liat91]

Take the people out and their very similar. Add the people and there are still shared attributes, but the overall background feel is different. Current Charlotte is very similar to Atlanta in 1995 maybe.

IMO the Atlanta CSA should be a bit bigger. I computed 6,667,386 at 51% white. If you add in some inner areas that should be added to Atlanta proper, the city would be; 761,832 at 42% white. Sorry I didn’t do other groups as I’m outta time, although I noticed a boatload of Asians and Hispanics have come into the area in a short span of time. (One generation) Unprecedented..

[ATLMidcity]

Originally Posted by liat91

Take the people out and their very similar. Add the people and there are still shared attributes, but the overall background feel is different. Current Charlotte is very similar to Atlanta in 1995 maybe.

IMO the Atlanta CSA should be a bit bigger. I computed 6,667,386 at 51% white. If you add in some inner areas that should be added to Atlanta proper, the city would be; 761,832 at 42% white. Sorry I didn’t do other groups as I’m outta time, although I noticed a boatload of Asians and Hispanics have come into the area in a short span of time. (One generation) Unprecedented..

That statement is the epitome of per bullshit. If you take the people out, every place might as well be Montana. The type of people (and their culture) are what make a city unique.
And how in the hell can anymore reasonably compare NYC to San Diego as CRAWFORD did. And to add insult to injure, say Charlotte is "blacker" than Detroit. Laughable.

In the words of Beyonce, "boy bye".

[JMKeynes]

Charlotte and Atlanta are very similar Sunbelt cities that started growing a lot in the 80s and then really took off afterward. Neither is anything like old, established cities like Cleveland or Pittsburg, for example.

Atlanta is basically a big version of Charlotte, though both cities are very nice.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by ATLMidcity

And how in the hell can anymore reasonably compare NYC to San Diego as CRAWFORD did.

You're not reading. Re-read the comment.

Originally Posted by ATLMidcity

And to add insult to injure, say Charlotte is "blacker" than Detroit. Laughable.

It's true. The % AA in Charlotte is higher than in Detroit. Charlotte has a high % black compared to most U.S. metros. Most Southern metros have a higher % black than metros elsewhere in the U.S., because the Southeast, is, by far, the most AA part of the country.

[cabasse]

Originally Posted by ATLMidcity

That statement is the epitome of per bullshit. If you take the people out, every place might as well be Montana. The type of people (and their culture) are what make a city unique.
And how in the hell can anymore reasonably compare NYC to San Diego as CRAWFORD did. And to add insult to injure, say Charlotte is "blacker" than Detroit. Laughable.

In the words of Beyonce, "boy bye".

actually i kinda agree here. atlanta and charlotte have similar built environments; meandering roads, low density - the piedmont in general. it's the makeup of their economies that are different, and the people/culture. atlanta is also a bit more willing to try to hang onto what history it still has as well. (saving nassau street building was a good try...) atlanta's downtown is still low key; charlotte uptown is basically like midtown atlanta - filled with lots of new skyscrapers and ever booming, and both have a handful of pre-war skyscrapers.

[S Car Go]

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

Charlotte and Atlanta are very similar Sunbelt cities

Eventually, the entire US is going to be included in the "Sunbelt".