California High Speed Rail Thread

[Car(e)-Free LA]

Originally Posted by craigs

There is already a thread for that private Las Vegas venture.

California High Speed Rail, this thread's subject, is a different project.

To be fair, they are inherently linked and should be designed as part of a comprehensive network.

[Busy Bee]

Yes

[craigs]

Originally Posted by Car(e)-Free LA

To be fair, they are inherently linked and should be designed as part of a comprehensive network.

One is a north-south state project under construction, the other is an east-west private pipe dream not under construction. Even if the pipe dream had been realized, they were never planned to intersect or connect at any point.

And that's why they have separate threads. They are separate and distinct.

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by craigs

Even if the pipe dream had been realized, they were never planned to intersect or connect at any point.

Not accurate. Both Xpresswest and the CAHSRA always assumed that once the basin tunnels connected Palmdale with LAUS the [Desertxpress/Xpresswest/Virgin] train would connect LAUS with Las Vegas using CAHSR rails at least to Palmdale. So while not being a comprehensive network operated by the same entity they clearly would intersect and interact with each other.

[38R]

Originally Posted by craigs

One is a north-south state project under construction, the other is an east-west private pipe dream not under construction. Even if the pipe dream had been realized, they were never planned to intersect or connect at any point.

And that's why they have separate threads. They are separate and distinct.

Incorrect

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by 38R

Yup. This thing is getting fully funded as soon as the next Dem President takes office.

Heck, If Bernie can get in with a D House and Senate, we'd get the extensions to Sacramento and San Diego, plus the High Desert Corridor all built by 2035.

The state has an estimated $7 billion surplus in 2020. As a percentage this is low single-digits, but it is nevertheless a gigantic sum as compared to any other state.

What's so ridiculous, looking back on 50+ years of transit and passenger rail policy in the United States, is that we were throwing big money at rail back in the 1970s, when interest rates were sky-high, but we've been preposterously conservative in the 2020s, despite historically low interest rates.

[Busy Bee]

I know who to blame... The name starts with Rep and ends in ublicans.

[plutonicpanda]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

I know who to blame... The name starts with Rep and ends in ublicans.

That is comical. I guess time will tell at this point. I guess republicans are responsible for all of the regulatory red tape, insane labor union laws, etc. that made this project estimated at 20b USD to balloon to 100b USD.

Republican State: Alabama rebuilds downtown freeway for 700 million dollars.

Democrat State: NYC estimates a rebuild of I-81 costs triple that. Simply tearing it down and building a grid is over 1 and half billion dollars.

But lets pretend it is all republicans fault. Nothing good in this country will come until democrats have complete control like they did under Obama's first term.

[Busy Bee]

Here we go again...

Stop using the examples of unrelated projects when this thread is clearly about CHSR and broadly USHSR. Yeah the GOP is just clamoring like they cant contain themselves to start HSR and the only reason they arent is because labor is just too expensive. Nothing ideological. Nothing political. They just want to develop mobility infrastructure that is independent of the auto or the fossil fuel industry in a "fiscally conservative" way.

Sure.

[plutonicpanda]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Here we go again...

Stop using the examples of unrelated projects when this thread is clearly about CHSR and broadly USHSR. Yeah the GOP is just clamoring like they cant contain themselves to start HSR and the only reason they arent is because labor is just too expensive. Nothing ideological. Nothing political. They just want to develop mobility infrastructure that is independent of the auto or the fossil fuel industry in a "fiscally conservative" way.

Sure.

You are conflating two issues.

You painted a broad generalization about republicans being obstructionist to California which is a joke. I provided an example as to why that is not true. My argument may not be apples to apples but your argument is no better making sweeping generalizations with nothing to back it up.

What have the democrats done other than draw a map? Have they opened HSR? They can't even get an existing rail line from St. Louis to Chicago to 100MPH. It is evident these people(I am referring to CAHSR authority) are so full of it they have no clue what to do.

Sitting and blaming Republicans and then making strawman arguments when called out won't help mass transit or HSR in this country.

[Busy Bee]

The CAHSR program is unfunded because you cannot and will not get Republicans to fund HSR. That's the Democrats fault? I kind of feel like that's as simple as it gets.

[38R]

Alabama is flat and empty and the land costs like 5 cents per square mile. Comparing it to developed areas like CA or NYC is dumb.

[plutonicpanda]

Originally Posted by 38R

Alabama is flat and empty and the land costs like 5 cents per square mile. Comparing it to developed areas like CA or NYC is dumb.

Except I didn't compare it to NYC, I compared it to Syracuse. The scope of the project and the geography are more similar in this instance than different. Also, NYSDOT is proposing the rebuild alternative as a four lane facility whereas the AlDOT project was a 8-10 lane and still a quarter of the price.

Furthermore, Alabama is hardly "flat and empty." In terms of being flat, it ranks 27 in the flattest states and NY is only 10 states behind it in 37.

Here is the stretch of I-81 in Syracuse: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0402....146046,15.17z

AlDOTs build: https://abc3340.com/news/local/ribbo...own-birmingham

So my point is there are cost differences and each project can be argued to be an apples to oranges comparison. But relating this to CAHSR, suggesting republicans are the sole cause to this project being hindered is just malarkey.

[plutonicpanda]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

The CAHSR program is unfunded because you cannot and will not get Republicans to fund HSR. That's the Democrats fault? I kind of feel like that's as simple as it gets.

The Democrats have been so willing to fund it. That is why when Obama was in office for the first term he could have done virtually anything he wanted, and this project that already had funds allocated it to it, a plan laid out by President Obama to establish a national HSR network, still wasn't enough to make CAHSR a reality.

Trump's proposal to roll back certain regulations will do more to help this project than anything the Democrats have done. There are tons of mass transit projects around the country that have bipartisan support. I would agree in principle that Democrats are more friendly to HSR than Republicans but I still stand by my statement that your statement Republicans are to blame is non-sense.

[202_Cyclist]

Originally Posted by plutonicpanda

The Democrats have been so willing to fund it. That is why when Obama was in office for the first term he could have done virtually anything he wanted, and this project that already had funds allocated it to it, a plan laid out by President Obama to establish a national HSR network, still wasn't enough to make CAHSR a reality.

Trump's proposal to roll back certain regulations will do more to help this project than anything the Democrats have done. There are tons of mass transit projects around the country that have bipartisan support. I would agree in principle that Democrats are more friendly to HSR than Republicans but I still stand by my statement that your statement Republicans are to blame is non-sense.

Jajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajaja!

Was it Democrats who proposed cutting Amtrak’s funding by nearly 1/4 or was it Mafia Don’s regime?

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2019/03/...ransit-amtrak/

[plutonicpanda]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

Jajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajaja!

Was it Democrats who proposed cutting Amtrak’s funding by nearly 1/4 or was it Mafia Don’s regime?

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2019/03/...ransit-amtrak/

Ah well that proves it. You heard it here first folks. The reason HSR hasn't become a reality in California is because of republicans and that is proved simply by the fact they proposed cutting Amtrak funds.

But by all means keep dodging my points so you head is comfortably buried in the sand.

[202_Cyclist]

Originally Posted by plutonicpanda

Ah well that proves it. You heard it here first folks. The reason HSR hasn't become a reality in California is because of republicans and that is proved simply by the fact they proposed cutting Amtrak funds.

But by all means keep dodging my points so you head is comfortably buried in the sand.

It was also Republicans like Jeff Denham who threw up one procedural roadblock after another.

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/20...entral-valley/

[Busy Bee]

I guess I would just ask that if President Obama hadnot lost Congress in 2010, what reason do you have to believe they would not have continued to pass HSR funding for the next 6 years???

[202_Cyclist]

Which party has proposed budgets that have cut both funding for transit and intercity passenger rail over the past decade and which party has advocated for investing in sustainable transportation? The answer is not difficult.

[craigs]

This thread has no subject any more. Now we're conflating the private and failed Las Vegas-to-Nowhere high speed rail with CAHSR (they have separate threads for a reason that some here apparently refuse to consider), and the usual partisans are busy posting about national partisan politics.

Mods should just shut this sad thread down.