The Retail Thread

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by mersar

Ones like 5th Street and 17th Ave are quite a simple explanation actually. Dates back to when western Canada was originally surveyed, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominio...rvey#Townships which explains it.

Cases like along 4th Street NW are more likely related to something else, possibly as simple as different land owners doing things different

The change of direction makes sense, but not really the fact that the entrance to 5th south of 17th ends up being shifted 10m to the east (or does it?). I've often wondered if the offsets around town were some sort of traffic calming.

[speedog]

One has to wonder why most of the avenues north of 17th Avenue south up to the river don't actually run straight east-west or why most of the streets in that area also don't run true north-south. 17th Avenue and 4 Street are the two notable exceptions.

Maybe a CPR issue as all of these slightly a-kilter roads are either parallel or 90 degrees perpendicular to the CPR mainline - so why did CPR do what they did?

[DizzyEdge]

it is a CPR issue as you mention, but I'm not sure why the CPR didn't make their line perfectly east west. But then again, rail would tend to just be laid in the most convenient alignment.

Man this is really offtopic..

[DizzyEdge]

Hey Mersar, can you move from post #2335 onwards to the Roads thread?

[Retail-Insider]

Originally Posted by Spring2008

Yeah, I could def see that. Also, do you know of anything regarding possibly a Nordstrom's opening downtown? A few people on the forum are thinking a smaller Nordstrom location within the retail podium of the soon to be u/c Brookfield Place across from The Bay would be a pretty ideal location for them. Soon to be many more professionals working in that area.

We'd be surprised if Nordstrom chose to locate in a less-than-optimum location in Downtown Calgary. We expect Calgary's only Nordstrom store will be at Chinook Centre.

[MalcolmTucker]

So what do people think with downtown retail: will Scotia Centre's podium eventually be reworked enough to make it a similar class of retail as The Core, and subsequently unleash Hudson Bay's potential?

[Ferreth]

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/ca...457/story.html

The outlet caters primarily to walk-in traffic and there is limited street parking, but it can be nimble with its assortment because it is located three kilometres away from its “parent” store, Mr. Hicks said, which at more than 10 times its size functions as a feeder warehouse and is linked to the same Canadian Tire dealer.

Each morning before 6 a.m., the Express store’s vacant shelf spots will be filled with an order placed to the parent the night before, in what will also function as a test pickup location when the retailer relaunches online sales in the third or fourth quarter of the year.

“This gives us more distribution points,” Mr. Hicks said. “The e-commerce strategy for other retailers is difficult if you do not have multiple distribution points.”

There used to be corner hardware stores everywhere and the format is still quite viable

The store will also test a valet service for consumers who want their cars serviced at the parent store’s auto bay, he said, allowing them to drop their vehicles in the morning and pick them up after work.

A Beltline location would do excellent business in Calgary. If I wasn't already a 5 minute drive from one, I'd use one of these stores for my small indoor project needs.

[Policy Wonk]

Some of you might recall Mojo Toronto's declaration that the marker for quality urban neighbourhoods is found in retailers dedicated to selling olive oil...

Well... downtown Calgary has arrived. And there doesn't appear to be a Toronto location.

I had a lunch meeting at The Core today, I hadn't been there in months and I walked past this.

OIL & VINEGAR CALGARY

Hopefully Porter Airlines gets their runway extension so Toronto urbanists can fly efficiently to Calgary to get their olive oil.

[Policy Wonk]

Some research on Calgary done by a US retailer was shared with me this week.

These were their general conclusions.

- The "downtown retail corridor" (should be obvious) lacks space suitable for a street facing flagship store and landlords are unwilling to accommodate architectural changes.
- Bank branches occupy the largest street facing locations.
- The entrances to the malls of the "downtown retail corridor" are corporate and alienating even if the interior is magnificent.
- "Downtown retail corridor" landlords can't make their rent stick.
- The "downtown retail corridor" lacks high draw retailers, no halo effect.
- Cross border shopping appears to depress local demand for many goods.
- People do not take their children or teens shopping downtown.
- The "downtown retail corridor" is not a recognized shopping destination. People don't have a positive or negative opinion, they have no opinion what so ever.
- A Crossiron Mills location might as well close its doors Monday to Friday, the weekday draw is demographically very weak.
- Residents interviewed within one mile of the "downtown retail corridor" expressed a desire for discount retailers.
- Marlborough is perceived almost universally negatively, Chinook almost universally positively other than expressed parking frustrations.

Originally the plan was a Crossiron Mills location to open Fall 2013 and a Chinook location when an opportunity presented itself. Crossiron has been dropped and like a million others they're in a holding pattern for Chinook.

[MichaelS]

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

- The "downtown retail corridor" (should be obvious) lacks space suitable for a street facing flagship store and landlords are unwilling to accommodate architectural changes.

Hopefully this is something that "The Riff" block in East Village can fix. Also, any idea on how far out of "downtown" retailers like that would be willing to go? Say the Bridgeland/Edmonton Trail connector area?

[RyLucky]

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

Some research on Calgary done by a US retailer was shared with me this week.

These were their general conclusions.

- The "downtown retail corridor" (should be obvious) lacks space suitable for a street facing flagship store and landlords are unwilling to accommodate architectural changes.
- Bank branches occupy the largest street facing locations.
- The entrances to the malls of the "downtown retail corridor" are corporate and alienating even if the interior is magnificent.
- "Downtown retail corridor" landlords can't make their rent stick.
- The "downtown retail corridor" lacks high draw retailers, no halo effect.
- Cross border shopping appears to depress local demand for many goods.
- People do not take their children or teens shopping downtown.
- The "downtown retail corridor" is not a recognized shopping destination. People don't have a positive or negative opinion, they have no opinion what so ever.
- A Crossiron Mills location might as well close its doors Monday to Friday, the weekday draw is demographically very weak.
- Residents interviewed within one mile of the "downtown retail corridor" expressed a desire for discount retailers.
- Marlborough is perceived almost universally negatively, Chinook almost universally positively other than expressed parking frustrations.

interesting.

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

Originally the plan was a Crossiron Mills location to open Fall 2013 and a Chinook location when an opportunity presented itself. Crossiron has been dropped and like a million others they're in a holding pattern for Chinook.

what does this mean? I don't understand.

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

- The entrances to the malls of the "downtown retail corridor" are corporate and alienating even if the interior is magnificent.

I can't imagine what you mean..

[DizzyEdge]

to compare:

[MichaelS]

Originally Posted by RyLucky

interesting.what does this mean? I don't understand.

I think it means that the retailers were originally considering a location in Crossiron Mills, but after doing some research here have decided against it. Now, they are simply waiting for a vacancy in Chinook Mall so they can open up there.

[RyLucky]

Originally Posted by MichaelS

I think it means that the retailers were originally considering a location in Crossiron Mills, but after doing some research here have decided against it. Now, they are simply waiting for a vacancy in Chinook Mall so they can open up there.

Gotcha. Looking forward to Chinook's SE expansion.

Regarding the comments on Downtown, I completely agree: the +15s are great, but unless you work in the building, are dressed like an exec, or know your way very well, it is not the least bit welcoming. To be honest, some buildings such as the Bow, I don't even know whether I am allowed to go inside. The lack of any signage and constant security gives me the impression that I am not. Only the Core and Stephen Ave have a welcoming vibe, and even there I agree that people don't take their kids or teenagers there, nor does it have retailers that draw people who arent already downtown.

Given that developers get bonus density for including +15 retail space, which philosophically is justified because it improves the public realm, they ought to welcome the public into indoor retail areas. Technically, perhaps we are allowed in most, but it doesn't feel that way. Most Calgarians have no idea what is in the +15s. Perhaps it's time we rethink downtown's strict signage rules and/or bonus density rules and/or +15 policies to better benefit retailers. Ideally one day the +15s could be 24h, or at least have more hours of active retail.

One concept I like to achieve the goal of making the +15 network more welcoming is to build several access points around downtown to serve as "grand entrances" where one could enter from the exterior into the +15 level in a way that felt like a front entrance. U of C has several good examples of this. Currently, only the Core achieves this (partially) by welcoming people in at the ground level. They could do better by having a front entrance at a corner on 8th Ave (where the Dilawri store is, for example), and converting the old entrance (that enters onto mid-block 2nd or 3rd street) into retail. Other "Grand Entrances into the network could be at Century Gardens, Eau Claire, City Hall, and from 10th Ave (across and over the CPR tracks - maybe into the +30 level). Here are a few concepts:

And the current network:

A combination of these concepts; sloping outdoor spaces that lead to accessible access points into the +15 network could bring them back into the public realm. This could also solve other problems such as continuation of Stephen Ave into the Rift, lack of pedestrian-friendly CPR crossings, and revitalization of Eau Claire. I think once developers become confident that they can capture more foot traffic for retail by providing welcoming urban format retail entrances, this will happen organically, but until that happens better incentives or even public infrastructure may be useful in proof of concept. Other than Minneapolis (and maybe Toronto and Montreal's underground networks; and maybe Venice!), I am not aware of any cities that have a similar retail environment. It is up to us to innovate good design.

[Colin]

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

Some research on Calgary done by a US retailer was shared with me this week.

These were their general conclusions.

- The "downtown retail corridor" (should be obvious) lacks space suitable for a street facing flagship store and landlords are unwilling to accommodate architectural changes.
- Bank branches occupy the largest street facing locations.
- The entrances to the malls of the "downtown retail corridor" are corporate and alienating even if the interior is magnificent.
- "Downtown retail corridor" landlords can't make their rent stick.
- The "downtown retail corridor" lacks high draw retailers, no halo effect.
- Cross border shopping appears to depress local demand for many goods.
- People do not take their children or teens shopping downtown.
- The "downtown retail corridor" is not a recognized shopping destination. People don't have a positive or negative opinion, they have no opinion what so ever.
- A Crossiron Mills location might as well close its doors Monday to Friday, the weekday draw is demographically very weak.
- Residents interviewed within one mile of the "downtown retail corridor" expressed a desire for discount retailers.
- Marlborough is perceived almost universally negatively, Chinook almost universally positively other than expressed parking frustrations.

Originally the plan was a Crossiron Mills location to open Fall 2013 and a Chinook location when an opportunity presented itself. Crossiron has been dropped and like a million others they're in a holding pattern for Chinook.

Thanks policywonk for posting this. It's very informative and unfortunately quite accurate. Based on this perception of the Core and I'm assuming Stephen Ave, I was wondering what people might think as a viable alternative for a downtown retail corridor? Does Stephen Ave's historical buildings and existing abundance of restaurant make it difficult for it to allow more retailers?

I like the idea of the RIFF in the East Village but I think that higher end retailers will be able to thrive better if it's closer to the CBD. Therefore, I was thinking that 3rd/Barclay Street might be a good candidate for a future retail corridor since it intersects with the Core and is already a pedestrian mall. However, it will likely require a lot of work and persuasion.

[artvandelay]

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

- The "downtown retail corridor" (should be obvious) lacks space suitable for a street facing flagship store and landlords are unwilling to accommodate architectural changes.
- "Downtown retail corridor" landlords can't make their rent stick.

Not surprising. Retail in downtown Calgary is looked at by landlord/developers mainly as an amenity for office tenants rather than a draw in itself. There is also a lack of suitable space for any new flagship or larger format stores along the Stephen/7th Avenue core retail area. The only potential spots would be in Brookfield Place and the Bow South block, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Originally Posted by MichaelS

Hopefully this is something that "The Riff" block in East Village can fix. Also, any idea on how far out of "downtown" retailers like that would be willing to go? Say the Bridgeland/Edmonton Trail connector area?

I doubt the East Village would be a draw for anything but locally focused retail and specialty shops. It's too far away from the core retail area to attract any larger chains. 17th Avenue would be a better bet.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by Colin

Thanks policywonk for posting this. It's very informative and unfortunately quite accurate. Based on this perception of the Core and I'm assuming Stephen Ave, I was wondering what people might think as a viable alternative for a downtown retail corridor? Does Stephen Ave's historical buildings and existing abundance of restaurant make it difficult for it to allow more retailers?

I like the idea of the RIFF in the East Village but I think that higher end retailers will be able to thrive better if it's closer to the CBD. Therefore, I was thinking that 3rd/Barclay Street might be a good candidate for a future retail corridor since it intersects with the Core and is already a pedestrian mall. However, it will likely require a lot of work and persuasion.

First Capital Realty obviously thinks it's 17th avenue, specifically at 8th street.

I agree, we need a downtown retail destination where major brands have their stores. The Core is a good candidate, but needs major changes to the street interface.

[YYCguys]

Originally Posted by fusili

I agree, we need a downtown retail destination where major brands have their stores. The Core is a good candidate, but needs major changes to the street interface.

Are there plans to redesign the exterior/entrances of the Core to match what's been done inside?

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by Colin

Thanks policywonk for posting this. It's very informative and unfortunately quite accurate. Based on this perception of the Core and I'm assuming Stephen Ave, I was wondering what people might think as a viable alternative for a downtown retail corridor? Does Stephen Ave's historical buildings and existing abundance of restaurant make it difficult for it to allow more retailers?

I like the idea of the RIFF in the East Village but I think that higher end retailers will be able to thrive better if it's closer to the CBD. Therefore, I was thinking that 3rd/Barclay Street might be a good candidate for a future retail corridor since it intersects with the Core and is already a pedestrian mall. However, it will likely require a lot of work and persuasion.

I'd love to see 3rd street have more retail and restaurants. The landscaping and sculptures are pretty cool, and there is a ton of space for retail frontage and patios, but it is extremely under utilized. Why did they upgrade the streetscape there if there are only a handful of retail bays that actually front onto the street. The biggest thing about 3rd street is it connects the 2 biggest tourist / pedestrian areas in the Core (Eau Claire and Stephen Ave) so there is the foot traffic volume there, just need to get some people to hang around.