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  #21  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2014, 4:25 PM
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It is just part of the truly depressing nature of Winnipeg.

I cope with it with the help of fine Canadian Whisky!
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  #22  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2014, 4:43 PM
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Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
Is it just me or has this board just become fileld with complaining. If its a beautiful proposal there are complaints that it'll never happen and is not financially feasable. If its a more modest proposal people complain that its butt ugly and shouldn't exist but in this city "something is better than nothing".
It's good to have high expectations but they're starting to get a little unrealistic.

This proposal is OK and about what you would expect for a student residence. Honestly, they can't all be 5 star architecture prize nominees. I know this is anathema to some, but sometimes it's good enough to have a building with a function that improves its surroundings. If we only let Pritzker Prize candidates get built then nothing will ever go up in this town.

Besides, the stuff going up in the suburbs is almost always worse than what's going up in the centre of town. But no one ever seems to write posts complaining about the appearance of the latest PartSource or Taco Del Mar location.
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  #23  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2014, 5:09 PM
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Originally Posted by windypeg View Post
A residential building better than a parking lot? Yes, yes it is.

PS Simplicity I'd love to hear what types of projects are viable in Winnipeg in your opinion. Strip malls? Tim Hortons franchises?
There are lots of projects that are viable in Winnipeg. They're just the sorts of projects that everybody tends to hate. Our city pays a premium for suburban living and takes urban living at a discount. I don't move the market, it just is what it is. And it's ass-backwards from most places. We have certain costs here that don't exist elsewhere. TrueViking spoke about this before. Our soil conditions are terrible, we have limited supply of concrete, and we can barely construct for 4 months of the year. We're also paying the labour rates of places that attract a much higher per square foot sale/rental rate because that's how regional labour markets work. All of that costs lots of money. Add to that the fact that our market doesn't produce crazy rents or even wildly out-to-lunch housing prices, and we have a market that simply doesn't support of lot of what people are seeing elsewhere.

You think anybody would put a stucco high-rise in downtown Toronto? That's simply a cost decision. So when somebody puts up a highrise apartment structure downtown Winnipeg and wants half of it to be affordable, rent-geared-to-income, you can bet it's going to be the cheapest conceivable build. And that's if this thing ever gets built. For some reason the costs are always the last thing to be considered. Which is why they're value engineering the project as we speak. Eventually somebody has to lend the project money; if it doesn't show a reasonable rate of return it won't get financed.

I can't understand why people think this is somehow negativity. Our realities are very different than others. You're better off wrapping your mind around those than being let down every time a project looks different than its renderings. This goes for that Centerpoint Parkade as well. Did anybody ever actually think that somebody was going to come along and pay $24/sq ft for new commercial retail space on Carlton? They certainly shouldn't have because nobody ever has. And they didn't; that's why its not there. Those businesses that got the boot were probably paying less than half of that. Did the developer get rid of those because he hates Downtown Winnipeg? No, he got rid of them because they'd sit vacant for the rest of eternity helping to drive down the demand of the many, already existing vacancies.

If you want beautiful architecture, go to a city where it costs $630/ft for a one bedroom condo. Here, we take what we can get...
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  #24  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2014, 6:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Simplicity View Post
There are lots of projects that are viable in Winnipeg. They're just the sorts of projects that everybody tends to hate. Our city pays a premium for suburban living and takes urban living at a discount. I don't move the market, it just is what it is. And it's ass-backwards from most places. We have certain costs here that don't exist elsewhere. TrueViking spoke about this before. Our soil conditions are terrible, we have limited supply of concrete, and we can barely construct for 4 months of the year. We're also paying the labour rates of places that attract a much higher per square foot sale/rental rate because that's how regional labour markets work. All of that costs lots of money. Add to that the fact that our market doesn't produce crazy rents or even wildly out-to-lunch housing prices, and we have a market that simply doesn't support of lot of what people are seeing elsewhere.

You think anybody would put a stucco high-rise in downtown Toronto? That's simply a cost decision. So when somebody puts up a highrise apartment structure downtown Winnipeg and wants half of it to be affordable, rent-geared-to-income, you can bet it's going to be the cheapest conceivable build. And that's if this thing ever gets built. For some reason the costs are always the last thing to be considered. Which is why they're value engineering the project as we speak. Eventually somebody has to lend the project money; if it doesn't show a reasonable rate of return it won't get financed.

I can't understand why people think this is somehow negativity. Our realities are very different than others. You're better off wrapping your mind around those than being let down every time a project looks different than its renderings. This goes for that Centerpoint Parkade as well. Did anybody ever actually think that somebody was going to come along and pay $24/sq ft for new commercial retail space on Carlton? They certainly shouldn't have because nobody ever has. And they didn't; that's why its not there. Those businesses that got the boot were probably paying less than half of that. Did the developer get rid of those because he hates Downtown Winnipeg? No, he got rid of them because they'd sit vacant for the rest of eternity helping to drive down the demand of the many, already existing vacancies.

If you want beautiful architecture, go to a city where it costs $630/ft for a one bedroom condo. Here, we take what we can get...
Your are correct.

And as of 2013 things got worse for foundations as the city changed the geo code for cast-in-place piles and now you need more of them as well as deeper.

Lumber has increased 50% since 2012 as the Chinese are stockpiling it and have increased demand and therefore price.

Concrete and steel never go down in price and workplace health and safety rates are always on the rises as well as cost of safety courses.

Propane for winter heat in also on the rise.

It never ends and then consumers still want to pay rent from the 90's and condo buyers want to pay $200 a foot for concrete and steel, hardwood floors, granite counters and underground parking. The consumers are unrealistic in Winnipeg.

Go to NYC and pay $1000 and up per square foot for a shell.
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  #25  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2014, 8:11 PM
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This is Winnipeg, not Manhattan. But yeah, everyone wants it all for nothing. Winnipeg is in a tough place. Trying to keep up with the big cities of Canada with the lowest wages. Impossible.
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  #26  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2014, 8:44 PM
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Reverse angle render from LM Architectural Group added to OP.
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  #27  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2014, 8:49 PM
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Great deal of good information being provided on the economics and feasibility of developments happening in Winnipeg.

>> http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=211226
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  #28  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2014, 11:59 PM
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The thing that really gets me on this is the colour. The ALT Hotel is looking pretty hideous and I am willing to bet that they will use a similar exterior for this proposal (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). I would think that anyone who designed this would take a lesson from that project but to be fair, these designs were probably made before ALT was being constructed... and may probably change.

"We'll take what we can get" and "it's better than nothing" attitudes really do not help guide the city to make better decisions. I personally do not feel that Winnipeg has been doing the best with what its got in the last 20 years, but that's just me.

Anyways I totally understand that this a student rental project but I am sure that there are some close comparisons out there for a similar price marketed for a similar demographic, that look nicer. Now look, I'm not saying change the design, I'm saying change the colour so that the exterior isn't black! And I have been enlightened by Simplicity's well-articulated post that outlined some of Winnipeg's challenges and so now I feel like I understand that aspect a little bit more as well (so thank you!); but doesn't every other city have its own individual hurdles to jump just as Winnipeg does when it comes to proposals and construction? Just food for thought..
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  #29  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2014, 6:48 PM
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Originally Posted by scryer View Post
I am willing to bet that they will use a similar exterior for this proposal (someone please correct me if I'm wrong).

but doesn't every other city have its own individual hurdles to jump just as Winnipeg does when it comes to proposals and construction? Just food for thought..
My understanding of the first part of your questions is that the exterior is slated to be EIFS which looks and acts like an acrylic stucco, so you'd be right about that. Whether it's comparable to the ALT is something I don't quite know. My guess is that those are acrylic stucco panels going up, but they could be something different. From 5 or 6 floors down, depending on the finish of the stucco on the ALT, they'd look very similar, anyway.

Your second comment is very true in a lot of respects. Every jurisdiction will have its own set of engineering or regulatory hurdles that make construction difficult. For example, if you were developing something in downtown Toronto or Vancouver right now, you'd be receiving significant push-back from residents about your plans for density. They're doing the opposite that we are here and trying to scale things back because of issues with sewer & water and electricity that arise as development begins to outpace the capacity of municipal services. And since there are many opinions on what reasonable capacity is, you'll get a fight.

But there's always one thing that can make large problems disappear - lots and lots of revenue and lower than average expenses. And that's really the difference between here and there. In somewhere like Toronto, you have people wiling to pay almost $700/sq ft in a market that has lots of qualified contractors who have excelled at building highrise construction. The confluence of the two is a significant advantage. Consequently, it allows for the sorts of amenities and architectural premiums we don't get here...
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  #30  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2014, 2:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Simplicity View Post
My understanding of the first part of your questions is that the exterior is slated to be EIFS which looks and acts like an acrylic stucco, so you'd be right about that. Whether it's comparable to the ALT is something I don't quite know. My guess is that those are acrylic stucco panels going up, but they could be something different. From 5 or 6 floors down, depending on the finish of the stucco on the ALT, they'd look very similar, anyway.

Your second comment is very true in a lot of respects. Every jurisdiction will have its own set of engineering or regulatory hurdles that make construction difficult. For example, if you were developing something in downtown Toronto or Vancouver right now, you'd be receiving significant push-back from residents about your plans for density. They're doing the opposite that we are here and trying to scale things back because of issues with sewer & water and electricity that arise as development begins to outpace the capacity of municipal services. And since there are many opinions on what reasonable capacity is, you'll get a fight.

But there's always one thing that can make large problems disappear - lots and lots of revenue and lower than average expenses. And that's really the difference between here and there. In somewhere like Toronto, you have people wiling to pay almost $700/sq ft in a market that has lots of qualified contractors who have excelled at building highrise construction. The confluence of the two is a significant advantage. Consequently, it allows for the sorts of amenities and architectural premiums we don't get here...
Speaking about all this reminds me of a documentary I have been meaning to watch, but haven't yet (mostly because I can't remember the name). It was about building in downtown London... Talking about the engineering involved because of all the old tunnels, the other buildings around, and how people are still willing to pay to have things built.

I'm sure someone here knows which documentary I'm talking about, so if you could share the name...
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  #31  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2014, 4:16 PM
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Originally Posted by steveosnyder View Post
Speaking about all this reminds me of a documentary I have been meaning to watch, but haven't yet (mostly because I can't remember the name). It was about building in downtown London... Talking about the engineering involved because of all the old tunnels, the other buildings around, and how people are still willing to pay to have things built.

I'm sure someone here knows which documentary I'm talking about, so if you could share the name...
I'd like to see that if somebody could provide the title.

But, I mean, Central London is the most sought-after, expensive real estate in the world. Billionaire oligarchs don't care much for the trivial costs associated with engineering when they're buying or building $20MM homes.
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  #32  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2014, 5:02 PM
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Apparently construction to begin this spring. Seems like all the financing is in place. Should still be a nice little addition at 14F for this location, more importantly the addition of affordable units for students attending the UofW.
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  #33  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2014, 5:13 PM
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Apparently construction to begin this spring. Seems like all the financing is in place. Should still be a nice little addition at 14F for this location, more importantly the addition of affordable units for students attending the UofW.
Plans are in for permits as of two weeks ago.

But I'm not hearing anything about successful financing at this point. Where are you getting your info?
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  #34  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2014, 5:27 PM
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Plans are in for permits as of two weeks ago.

But I'm not hearing anything about successful financing at this point. Where are you getting your info?
Should have been more specific..loan guarantee from the Gov't of Manitoba, it will be self-financed, not really new news per se, but yes it is preceding.
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  #35  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2014, 5:52 PM
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Should have been more specific..loan guarantee from the Gov't of Manitoba, it will be self-financed, not really new news per se, but yes it is preceding.
So the U of W is borrowing the money, lending it to the company that operates the building, and the province is back-stopping it.

Hoo-boy.

The building is getting a nice EIFS clad, by the way. Everybody needs to just deal with it
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  #36  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2014, 11:16 PM
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Speaking of EIFS, is that what clads that little six story building they just made on Edmonton by St. Mary? That place actually looks decent. But the Alt, especially up close, looks like a lumpy piece of shit.
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  #37  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2014, 2:48 AM
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Speaking of EIFS, is that what clads that little six story building they just made on Edmonton by St. Mary? That place actually looks decent. But the Alt, especially up close, looks like a lumpy piece of shit.
Haven't seen Edmonton, but that's what's on the ALT. That's the way she goes in this city...
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  #38  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2014, 3:06 AM
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alt was done on panels they trucked in though wheres the place on edmonton was done in place
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  #39  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2015, 7:10 PM
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Just got this email:

Quote:
CONSTRUCTION OF NEW APARTMENT COMPLEX SET TO BEGIN
The University of Winnipeg is now preparing for construction of a new apartment complex that will offer much needed additional downtown rental options to students as well as the broader community. It will be located at 320 Colony Street, south of the Buhler Centre, and is expected to be complete in Summer 2016. The project is fully self-financed and supported via a loan guarantee from the Province; there will be no impact on UWinnipeg’s operating budget.
Some features of the new apartment complex:
• 14 storeys, 112,000 square feet
• 102 self-contained one, two, and three bedroom apartments
• almost half (46 units) will have provincially-prescribed rent ceilings to ensure affordability
• the remaining 56 apartments will be offered at market price, 18 of those designed as premium units with dedicated parking
• an attractive indoor/outdoor community amenity area
Click here for additional information on the new building.
Construction site mobilization began earlier this week. Pile driving for the foundational work is anticipated to start on February 13 and last approximately three weeks. We understand this creates some unavoidable short-term noise and apologize for any inconvenience you may experience. Once this phase is over, normal construction activity will proceed throughout the winter.
To mitigate the impact of construction noise on our students and faculty, arrangements are being made to relocate some classes from Buhler Centre to other buildings. Faculty members directly affected by these changes have been contacted to arrange specifics. Once these class relocations are finalized, a list of changes will be communicated.
The new construction has brought about the closure of a parking lot behind the Buhler Centre for the duration of construction. Nearby parking options for those affected by this change include:
Health & RecPlex Richardson College for the Environment and Science Complex
• underground (climate controlled)
• access on Young Street
• $3/hr | daily max $12 | $4 evening rate • 150 surface parking spots behind the building 599 Portage Ave.
• $2/hr | daily max $10 | $4 evening rate

Thank you in advance for your patience and understanding while the construction of this new building adjacent to campus occurs.

Further updates will be shared with the UWinnipeg community as the project progresses. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact Linda Palmer at 204.988.7110 or l.palmer@uwinnipeg.ca
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  #40  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2015, 7:34 PM
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^ Excellent. A few more residents around the U of W is good news.
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