Winnipeg Blue Bombers

[rrskylar]

Why is everything done in this city a clusterfuck, a gong show, require an extensive reconstruct, usually involve illegal activity, have politicians plead ignorance...... (the real sad part was hiring an architect to build a $200 million stadium whose body of work was designing small three story crappy looking commercial buildings)

Article;

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/spo...ce=d-top-story

[bomberjet]

Remember how the stadium came about. Asper. Enough said.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by esquire

Here's the full laundry list of alleged deficiencies from the Statement of Claim. I guess in any project of sufficient magnitude you're going to run into a few issues and shortcomings. But even though some of this stuff is tiddlywinks and a matter of one's personal opinion, there are undeniably some major issues in the mix and on the whole it does seem like a bit more than one might reasonably expect.

(a) lack of handicap accessible design relating to door openers and at suite level;

.....

(pp) no barrier free route from parking to Administrative Building entrance;
(collectively the “Deficiencies”)

That's quite the list. Some are minor, yes., But a lot of those are major issues...

[esquire]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Why is everything done in this city a clusterfuck, a gong show, require an extensive reconstruct, usually involve illegal activity, have politicians plead ignorance......

Those words could be applied to so many publicly-funded projects around this town. It'd be morbidly funny if we didn't have to pay for all this...

Edit, oh yeah, rrskylar's list is missing the other reliable standby: "massive cost overruns"

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by esquire

Those words could be applied to so many publicly-funded projects around this town. It'd be morbidly funny if we didn't have to pay for all this...

Edit, oh yeah, rrskylar's list is missing the other reliable standby: "massive cost overruns"

Sorry esq., ''massive cost overruns should have been at the top of the list'' along with ''added extra costs'', ''way over original and revised budget'', ''double the original estimate'' and ''cold and weather delays (with added costs)''......it would all be funny if it wasn't so fucking sad!

[Biff]

If I remember correctly at the beginning of the stadium planning exercise they HAD enlisted the largest stadium design firm in the world HOK Sports/Populous for conceptual planning. I guess they then decided to save money, ditch a qualified firm and have a Architect with no former experience in designing a stadium perform the work. The result will likely end up costing more in the end then had we just paid for a professional.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Biff

If I remember correctly at the beginning of the stadium planning exercise they HAD enlisted the largest stadium design firm in the world HOK Sports/Populous for conceptual planning. I guess they then decided to save money, ditch a qualified firm and have a Architect with no former experience in designing a stadium perform the work. The result will likely end up costing more in the end then had we just paid for a professional.

Isn't that just the Winnipeg way of doing things? I'd like to know who signed off on hiring a guy to design a stadium which was clearly (obviously) way out of his environment and level of expertise.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Isn't that just the Winnipeg way of doing things? I'd like to know who signed off on hiring a guy to design a stadium which was clearly (obviously) way out of his environment and level of expertise.

Wasn't it Asper who insisted on using "his" architect?

[bomberjet]

Okay so I'll elaborate on my post about Asper. Yes, Ray Wan was his special choice for architect because he's a "local" buddy. We all know Ray Way shittly designs banks and the like. Nevermind a stadium. With most of the work occurring in China form what I hear.

It all goes way back to the initial stages. How Asper was going to be the hero and everyone else, including Leo Ledohowski and his spectacular plan (which may have gone nowhere, we will never know), was shut out. From that moment on, we were doomed. This was proven when Asper had to step out, after the ground breaking ceremony, because he has no money. So tehy were digging a hole without a completed design, which isn't the end of the world. But here we are today.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Biff

If I remember correctly at the beginning of the stadium planning exercise they HAD enlisted the largest stadium design firm in the world HOK Sports/Populous for conceptual planning. I guess they then decided to save money, ditch a qualified firm and have a Architect with no former experience in designing a stadium perform the work. The result will likely end up costing more in the end then had we just paid for a professional.

It's common for major projects like this to involve some typically foreign big-name architect as the project lead, with a local assoicate architect taking on various aspects of the design detail... I seem to recall there were such relationships with the airport (Pelli and Stantec) and MTS Centre (Sink Combs Detlefs and Number TEN). But in this case HOK came up with a very preliminary concept and then Wan took over completely... I guess in hindsight it was kind of crazy to expect Wan to knock it out of the park on the firm's first-ever sports facility.

That is kind of a Winnipeg mentality, though... "Hey, my buddy will do it cheaper!" I guess you can't expect a guy who designs car dealerships to do a bang-up job on a stadium any more than you can expect your podiatrist to do a great job on a heart surgery. Textbook case of penny-wise, pound-foolish, although the cynic might argue that without a bit of budgetary bait-and-switch the project might have never received the green light in the first place.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Riverman

Wasn't it Asper who insisted on using "his" architect?

Can Asper be included in those being sued?

[rrskylar]

More:

http://www.winnipegsun.com/2015/03/0...lder-architect

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by esquire

Here's the full laundry list of alleged deficiencies from the Statement of Claim. [edit]

(o) lack of structural design capacity of Concourse slabs to satisfy venue requirements for operational loading;

(mm) weight restrictions on all Concourse levels due to slab design and composition. This limits weight and amount of product and weight that can be moved around stadium, a problem for moving kegs of beer for instance. Man lifts and equipment. are limited in their capacity;

Could these two issues limit the ability to temporarily expand the stadium for events like the Grey Cup?

Originally Posted by esquire

(aa) sprinkler system design type for suite levels unsuitable due to lack of heat;

(bb) lack of fire proofing on the steel structure supporting the Administrative Building roof, South Patio and North Concessions;

In other words we are lucky the place hasn't caught fire as normal mitigation systems are not in place. Further, a fire during an event in either the south or north end zone poses a significant safety risk as proper fire proofing is not in place near the main exit points. Good thing there has never been a fire alarm in the facility during an event, oh wait sorry forgot that has already occurred.

Originally Posted by esquire

(ii) no internal barrier free route between upper level football offices and lower level football operations;

(pp) no barrier free route from parking to Administrative Building entrance;

In other words the newly built facility does not conform to accepted practices for modern work places to accommodate persons with disabilities.

[drew]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Isn't that just the Winnipeg way of doing things? I'd like to know who signed off on hiring a guy to design a stadium which was clearly (obviously) way out of his environment and level of expertise.

We can all complain about the process, but in my experience offering professional consulting to the public - it almost always comes down to dollars and cents over experience and qualifications.

I guarantee if any of us on this forum were to build a house, an addition, request a structural report, an asset report, etc. etc. money talks first and foremost.

I get that a stadium is a complicated animal, but when it comes down to "cheapness" or the "Winnipeg way" - deep down, we are almost all the same. "Give me the cheaper option".

[bomberjet]

Totally agree with that Drew. In my experience, clients learn the hard way. We recommend not cheaping out on design and all that. Then construction comes, there's issues, and the client turns around and looks and me. I just shrug and basically say "told you so." Next time, things go a little smoother. People don't like to spend money on engineering specifically, and learn the hard way a lot of times.

In this case. It may be a factor of Wan giving a low price to Asper, him getting all goo eyed and running with it. Now look where we're at. Asper took his money and ran long ago.

[cllew]

I was just thinking over breakfast, by any chance was the same architect going to be the one designing the shopping center that Asper was going to put on the old Stadium site?

Maybe there was going to be a package price from the firm for both projects as they seem to do a lot of retail.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by cllew

I was just thinking over breakfast, by any chance was the same architect going to be the one designing the shopping center that Asper was going to put on the old Stadium site?

Maybe there was going to be a package price from the firm for both projects as they seem to do a lot of retail.

Ray Wan was the architect for the failed Elms Shopping Centre at the old stadium site.

[bomberjet]

he seems to be Aspers architect of choice. See the failed project W Ray Wan speciality.

[esquire]

Freep reports that the Bombers have called a press conference to annouce a contract extension for Drew Willy

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/spo...ce=d-top-story

[esquire]

With the Grey Cup being held in town this year, I wonder if the Bisons are going to put a bid to host a Vanier Cup? You'd think they'd want to show off their home venue on the national CIS stage and make a bit of cash... I would expect that a Vanier Cup could attract over 15,000 fans, and even more if Manitoba or one of the Sask teams makes it. 15K tickets at an average $40 a pop is $600K, 20K tickets at $60 a pop is $1.2 million. That's real money by Bison football standards.

Winnipeg has never hosted since the Vanier Cup left its Toronto home base 10 years ago.