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  #1141  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2019, 7:58 PM
MalcolmTucker MalcolmTucker is offline
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You can do things like allow it to stay up for 5 years after. The big thing for me is you need to have a corridor identified if you're going to build a segment of it.
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  #1142  
Old Posted Nov 26, 2019, 12:23 AM
Jaspertf Jaspertf is offline
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Hyperloop/Transpod will work, but will it cost CAD 6 billion?

In layman's terms what is Hyperloop/Transpod? It is an object travelling at high speed in a vacuum. Why a vacuum? A vacuum has little to no air, air creates resistance (aerodynamic drag), if there is no air there is no drag and objects can travel at much high speeds. Think of space travel.

However when it comes to passengers, we need air to breathe, so for passengers Hyperloop/Transpod becomes a pressurized vehicle travelling in a vacuum tube.

What is an object that operates with an interior pressure greater than the exterior? An aeroplane.

What is an object that operates with an interior pressure less than the exterior? A submarine.

What is the fastest form of propulsion? Electro-magnetic.

So an aeroplane propelled by mag-lev, inside a submarine.

As temperatures get colder, all metals and materials become more brittle and susceptible to fracturing. Over the past winter both CP and CN have been operating their trains at slow speeds to prevent breaking rails, causing the grain backlog. Ski hills will shutdown chair lifts below -20degC, to prevent cables snapping.

Also the temperature expansion coefficient of steel pipes per degree change of temperature is a constant 14x10-6 m/mdegC. The distance between Calgary and Edmonton is approx. 300km, the temperature variation over 1 year can go from +35 in summer to -40 in winter, a 75 degC temperature change. Over the course of a year in Alberta, an exposed carbon steel pipe from Calgary to Edmonton will expand/contract 135 meters.
All materials expand and contract with temperature changes:
Fiberglass would expand/contract 230m over 300km.
PVC would expand/contract 675m over 300km.
CPVC would expand/contract 855m over 300km.

The temperature in the Prairies gets below -40degC in the winter. The frost level in Alberta is considered to be 3.0m, all water utilities are buried below 3m in the ground to prevent freezing.

To work effectively in Alberta, Hyperloop/Transpod would have to be underground. Also with a speed of 1000kph it would have to be dead straight, which can easily be achieved with tunnelling.

So will Transpod cost CAD6billion between Calgary and Edmonton?

A simple train tunnel costs CAD20million per km, Crossrail is costing more. A Transpod tunnel would also need to be sealed in order to maintain a vacuum, and this does not include the mag-lev propulsion technology or the construction of the terminals and pods.

For a quick relevant example, Tokyo to Nagoya mag-lev. The direct route is 286km with the majority in a tunnel, it is currently estimated at JPY5.1Trillion or CAD 60 Billion.

Hyperloop/Transpod is a fantastic idea and a great use of technology, but it will be a massive white elephant for Alberta. The population of Tokyo and Nagoya is 47 million, the best place for this technology in North America is in the North East Corridor between Washington DC and New York.
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Last edited by Jaspertf; Nov 27, 2019 at 1:54 AM.
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  #1143  
Old Posted Nov 26, 2019, 2:33 PM
milomilo milomilo is offline
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It looks to me there are more problems with Hyperloop than just the expansion issues you describe, but it's true that putting it in a tunnel solves a lot of the problems. But, as you point out, once you put it in tunnel, the claim of low cost (also a lie in the first place) instantly evaporates.
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  #1144  
Old Posted Nov 26, 2019, 4:29 PM
MalcolmTucker MalcolmTucker is offline
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If they can raise the money. who are we to complain? It is when the corridor is identified, and they approach the government yet again for the seed funds because they can't raise funds for a test track that we should say no.
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  #1145  
Old Posted Nov 26, 2019, 9:00 PM
technomad technomad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe498 View Post
Proponents of Calgary-to-Edmonton magnet tube transporter seek provincial nod

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...0-947354af17f4
yawn.. I'd say I couldn't tell if this sideshow was more hype or cringe, but this quote from the article settled it for me

Quote:
All told, it would boost a struggling provincial economy by directly creating 14,500 jobs when fully operational, said TransPod.
quite a feat for an automated train

Quote:
Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker View Post
If they can raise the money. who are we to complain? It is when the corridor is identified, and they approach the government yet again for the seed funds because they can't raise funds for a test track that we should say no.
also fta:

Quote:
To that end, the European Union has offered $30 million CDN for research and development, while the Alberta project would be funded partly by the Canada Infrastructure Fund and pension funds, said Gendron.

In 2018, the company suggested the city’s $100 million economic development fund would have been a natural fit for the proposal but nothing came of that.
just more slow news day bullshit from hucksters looking to spend other peoples money...

reminder that the 'hyperloop' concept has been kicking around since the early 70s, tho it was called 'planetran' at the time

1978: https://www.rand.org/pubs/papers/P6092.html
1972: https://www.rand.org/pubs/papers/P4874.html

as per the whitepapers the secret ingredient to making a sealed tunnel like that work was nothing less than an atomic powered TBM


(maybe if Nenshi asks nicely the yanks would loan it out for green line?)

https://patents.google.com/patent/US3693731A/en
https://patents.google.com/patent/US3885832A/en

given how long ago this was conceived and the people behind the R&D, I think it's safe to assume that at least part of this network already exists, and likely has for decades...



additional reminder that the surface world has essentially become purgatory, where nothing truly interesting ever happens
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  #1146  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2020, 9:14 PM
Socguy Socguy is offline
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The idea has been around since at least the 18th century with Vactrains AKA atmospheric railways, though the maglev part is new. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vactrain
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  #1147  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2020, 5:24 PM
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DizzyEdge DizzyEdge is offline
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Originally Posted by DizzyEdge View Post
Somewhat on topic maybe, but Car2Go is pulling out of Calgary at the end of October

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...gary-1.5300253
Car2go (now called SHARE NOW) is pulling out of all of North America now.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...-plug-the-gap/
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  #1148  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2020, 5:27 PM
milomilo milomilo is offline
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Makes me feel less bad about Calgary being cut, but surprised this service is now less economically viable than when it started. What changed? Was it just subsidised the whole time?

Hopefully something replaces it, hopefully something electrically powered.
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  #1149  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2020, 6:25 PM
MalcolmTucker MalcolmTucker is offline
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Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
Makes me feel less bad about Calgary being cut, but surprised this service is now less economically viable than when it started. What changed? Was it just subsidised the whole time?

Hopefully something replaces it, hopefully something electrically powered.
Smart and then the main Mercedes brand were using it as advertising, sort of like when car brands used to have exclusivity agreements with rental car companies. It would also allow maintenance facilities within the cities to operate at a larger scale, which I could potentially see benefits from.



I think without major support to build collective charging infrastructure, the writing is on the wall for the business IF you think a self driving taxi is going to work. If you have to have them drive home at the end of the night to charge, why not have them in auto mode all the time?


It is a cool business. If there had been a way to car share post ww2 I wonder how our cities would look different. But their niche is going to be filled by driverless taxis, vanpools, and small buses- where it hasn't already been filled for short trips by scooters or human driven rideshare.



I wouldn't have thought even last year that scooters could be a viable business (and they still probably aren't, but all it takes is for one company to build the durable enough model to make the numbers work), but now it seems that scooters might end up being the sustainable business model to the surprise of almost everyone.
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  #1150  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2020, 8:22 PM
Corndogger Corndogger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DizzyEdge View Post
Car2go (now called SHARE NOW) is pulling out of all of North America now.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...-plug-the-gap/
That was announced last fall. IIRC they're only a few cities right now as they wind down completely. I believe they're only in about 18 markets in Europe so they'll probably leave those places as well in the near future.
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  #1151  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2020, 8:25 PM
Corndogger Corndogger is offline
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Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
Makes me feel less bad about Calgary being cut, but surprised this service is now less economically viable than when it started. What changed? Was it just subsidised the whole time?

Hopefully something replaces it, hopefully something electrically powered.
When the exit from North America was announced last fall they cited rising insurance rates as a factor along with more competition.
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  #1152  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2020, 12:39 AM
milomilo milomilo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker View Post
Smart and then the main Mercedes brand were using it as advertising, sort of like when car brands used to have exclusivity agreements with rental car companies. It would also allow maintenance facilities within the cities to operate at a larger scale, which I could potentially see benefits from.



I think without major support to build collective charging infrastructure, the writing is on the wall for the business IF you think a self driving taxi is going to work. If you have to have them drive home at the end of the night to charge, why not have them in auto mode all the time?


It is a cool business. If there had been a way to car share post ww2 I wonder how our cities would look different. But their niche is going to be filled by driverless taxis, vanpools, and small buses- where it hasn't already been filled for short trips by scooters or human driven rideshare.



I wouldn't have thought even last year that scooters could be a viable business (and they still probably aren't, but all it takes is for one company to build the durable enough model to make the numbers work), but now it seems that scooters might end up being the sustainable business model to the surprise of almost everyone.
You still could be proved right on electric scooters, I have my doubts on the long term viability of them. They don't help us a whole lot in Calgary for half the year.

Personally I think the visions of self driving cars are fantastical. I would hope something could fill the gap between scooters and uber within the time it will take to have self driving taxis (my guess? 10-20 years).
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  #1153  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2020, 12:58 AM
accord1999 accord1999 is offline
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The injury rates of e-scooters are also incredibly high:



By comparison, the City estimates around 3M passenger-trips/day by car so its ER rate is something like 1:500,000.
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  #1154  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2020, 5:46 PM
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DizzyEdge DizzyEdge is offline
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Speaking of which, apparently Lime e-bikes are not coming back but the very popular scooters are.
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  #1155  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2020, 2:19 PM
YYCguys YYCguys is offline
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Calgary to Banff rail link eyed in UCP's grand recovery plan
Author of the article:Chris Varcoe • Calgary Herald
Publishing date:Jul 02, 2020

Premier Jason Kenney is setting his sights on several big targets, from potentially laying the groundwork for a new passenger rail service between Calgary and Banff....

.... The new study follows a 2019 report commissioned by Banff, Cochrane, Canmore and Calgary that found a passenger rail link was feasible. However, it estimated the capital costs at $680 million and noted an operating subsidy of up to $9.1 million annually could be required.

According to the Canada Infrastructure Bank, the 130-kilometre-long service would potentially have six stops — including the airport, downtown Calgary and Banff — and be built along a line within CP Rail’s existing corridor. (Bank officials point out it would not be considered high-speed rail service.)
https://calgaryherald.com/business/v...-80357841afcc/
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  #1156  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2020, 2:22 PM
milomilo milomilo is offline
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I notice in the article the price is now being said to be $1B. More reasonable and I expect that to increase further. Which I think will still be a wise investment, but let's not fool ourselves that this will be cheap.
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  #1157  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2020, 3:15 PM
YYCguys YYCguys is offline
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I note that in a recent CoC committee meeting presentation, that a future Airport Transit line has a future stop for the regional rail line along the CP corridor, so hopefully at least one leg from there to the airport can be completed in conjunction with the regional rail line construction, even if it doesn’t connect at that time to Blue or Green Lines.
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  #1158  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2020, 4:19 PM
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As Banff tourism (the main driver, I assume) is so seasonal, wouldn't a line between Alberta's two largest cities make more economic sense? Especially as it could also tie in with Red Deer and the international airports in both Calgary and Edmonton?
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  #1159  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2020, 4:20 PM
milomilo milomilo is offline
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Originally Posted by YYCguys View Post
I note that in a recent CoC committee meeting presentation, that a future Airport Transit line has a future stop for the regional rail line along the CP corridor, so hopefully at least one leg from there to the airport can be completed in conjunction with the regional rail line construction, even if it doesn’t connect at that time to Blue or Green Lines.
But the federal plan (from the vague details we have) is for a line from the airport to Banff, so the city plan is redundant, except as a suburban connector. Is it worthwhile having both a heavy rail line and another rail transit line? I don't think there is good justification for both, and the heavy rail line will be better, so that eliminates the city line, IMO.
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  #1160  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2020, 4:24 PM
milomilo milomilo is offline
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Originally Posted by Pegasus View Post
As Banff tourism (the main driver, I assume) is so seasonal, wouldn't a line between Alberta's two largest cities make more economic sense? Especially as it could also tie in with Red Deer and the international airports in both Calgary and Edmonton?
I think both have justification but can stand individually on their own merits (but building both would benefit both). The Banff line should be much cheaper though and I think will be more politically sellable. Calgary - Edmonton is only worth doing with its own ROW, and then that means it makes most sense to be HSR, and then it's a megaproject...
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