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  #9181  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2016, 6:20 PM
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Originally Posted by bunt_q View Post
If you have 20 minutes there was a good interview on CPR today, David Sachs vs. the CDOT spokesperson for the I-70 project.
Bunt, can you clarify if what Sachs says regarding FASTER permitting the state to turn general purpose lanes on interstate highways into managed lanes is accurate?

From what I gather, FASTER does permit this on state highways, but this wouldn't be feasible for interstate highways that were built as part of the Federal Highway Act as there is only a limited federal tolling pilot program that is completely filled up with existing projects and would require Congressional action to be opened up further.
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  #9182  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2016, 6:40 PM
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Originally Posted by wong21fr View Post
Bunt, can you clarify if what Sachs says regarding FASTER permitting the state to turn general purpose lanes on interstate highways into managed lanes is accurate?

From what I gather, FASTER does permit this on state highways, but this wouldn't be feasible for interstate highways that were built as part of the Federal Highway Act as there is only a limited federal tolling pilot program that is completely filled up with existing projects and would require Congressional action to be opened up further.
At a bar, sure. I would agree with him that it isn't impossible. I would also say that it's nearly impossible.
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  #9183  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2016, 6:43 PM
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At a bar, sure. I would agree with him that it isn't impossible. I would also say that it's nearly impossible.
Okay. Bar. Beer.
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Last edited by wong21fr; Feb 4, 2016 at 7:00 PM.
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  #9184  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2016, 7:09 PM
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You guys are kind of narrowing in on my beef with this particular line of criticism against this project. Right, wrong, or otherwise, people like Sachs and the folks at COPIRG are asking for the near impossible. In a city that has nowhere near the walking or transit culture, they are asking that we act like San Francisco and remove a freeway. It just seems like they are about 20-30 years too early in fighting this kind of fight, and the energy would be better spent doing something positive like advocating for better inner-city transit. Instead, they're wasting their time, breath, and potentially even making enemies; going negative and trying to throw sand in the gears of a project that most agree needs to happen sooner than later for reasons other than just congestion.
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  #9185  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2016, 7:34 PM
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You guys are kind of narrowing in on my beef with this particular line of criticism against this project. Right, wrong, or otherwise, people like Sachs and the folks at COPIRG are asking for the near impossible. In a city that has nowhere near the walking or transit culture, they are asking that we act like San Francisco and remove a freeway. It just seems like they are about 20-30 years too early in fighting this kind of fight, and the energy would be better spent doing something positive like advocating for better inner-city transit. Instead, they're wasting their time, breath, and potentially even making enemies; going negative and trying to throw sand in the gears of a project that most agree needs to happen sooner than later for reasons other than just congestion.
There are so many other criticisms that can be leveled at the relocated I-70 crowd due to the impratical nature of their proposal that it's funny:

-Sachs and the like are also using spur freeways, nut thru freeways, in their examples of freeway removal which is a false comparison.

-The tree-lined boulevard replacement is really a 100,000 car per day major traffic corridor, the traffic will not simply move elsewhere along the street grid due to the nature of the I-70 corridor being Denver's logistics corridor with a ton of originating and terminating vehicle traffic (along with a ton of thru traffic). You'd be replacing I-70 with a street that has twice the daily traffic of Colorado Boulevard- a street that Sachs has vilified for being an auto nightmare. Just what kind of tree-lined boulevard with meandering bicycle facilities will support 100,000 vehicles per day? It's called a surface highway.

-Their cost estimates are beyond ridiculous in being optimistic.

-They equate managed lanes with general purpose lanes when talking about induced demand which is a false equivalency. I don't think there have been any studies done thus far to see if managed lanes cause induced demand, but it seems very unlikely due to the market clearing dynamics of variable pricing.
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  #9186  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2016, 8:18 PM
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Originally Posted by wong21fr View Post

-Sachs and the like are also using spur freeways, nut thru freeways, in their examples of freeway removal which is a false comparison.
Agreed. There aren't many (if any) apples-to-apples comparisons of highway removal for a facility of this type. Denver is actually pretty lucky in not having many spurs and bypasses. We have a lot of one-way couplets that actually saved us from freeways.

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Originally Posted by wong21fr View Post
-The tree-lined boulevard replacement is really a 100,000 car per day major traffic corridor, the traffic will not simply move elsewhere along the street grid due to the nature of the I-70 corridor being Denver's logistics corridor with a ton of originating and terminating vehicle traffic (along with a ton of thru traffic). You'd be replacing I-70 with a street that has twice the daily traffic of Colorado Boulevard- a street that Sachs has vilified for being an auto nightmare. Just what kind of tree-lined boulevard with meandering bicycle facilities will support 100,000 vehicles per day? It's called a surface highway.
From an urban design standpoint, it's most definitely possible to build a boulevard that processes that kind of ADT while still maintaining place and appropriate scale. Most examples come from Europe though. And I'm not sure it would apply to this area (not at least for several, several decades, if ever). But it's possible.

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Originally Posted by wong21fr View Post
-Their cost estimates are beyond ridiculous in being optimistic.
Yeah.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wong21fr View Post
-They equate managed lanes with general purpose lanes when talking about induced demand which is a false equivalency. I don't think there have been any studies done thus far to see if managed lanes cause induced demand, but it seems very unlikely due to the market clearing dynamics of variable pricing.
This, to me, is really one of CDOT's last big expansion project opportunities left in Denver proper (except central I-25 (maybe some more lids?!)). As the city continues to develop and the demographics change, it will get massively harder to implement roadway expansions.
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  #9187  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2016, 9:05 PM
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Okay. Bar. Beer.
I'll bring a drone, and a dSLR so we can take saucy pictures of the soon-to-be-gone viaduct!
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  #9188  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2016, 7:01 PM
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This is how CDOT should do it from now on:

Video Link
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  #9189  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2016, 7:35 PM
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Okay. Bar. Beer.
I'm pretty open, except for the Super Bowl, I work, drink, sleep, and work some more. Still nowhere near as booked up as RyanD. Someplace out east? Pick an evening.
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  #9190  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2016, 7:56 PM
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Still nowhere near as booked up as RyanD..
I'm... Busy....



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  #9191  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2016, 8:24 AM
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PERRY: Denver offers a Colfax-RTD solution to a problem that doesn’t exist

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  #9192  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2016, 2:57 PM
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Transit really can't win. If traffic is bad, you can't take a lane. If traffic isn't bad, you can't take a lane, because then traffic will be bad.
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  #9193  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2016, 6:30 PM
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Is there a transit version of a NIMBY or BANANA?
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  #9194  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2016, 9:03 PM
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Is there a transit version of a NIMBY or BANANA?
AURORA

Against Useful Research Of Roadway Alternatives
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  #9195  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2016, 10:37 PM
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Hahah..nicely done.
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  #9196  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2016, 6:49 PM
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Has anyone heard how many RTD hauled during yesterdays Broncos parade?? I bet it was a record...
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  #9197  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2016, 7:48 PM
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Oh for anyone wondering about the RTD Bronco parade ridership, I called RTD and they haven't got any official numbers just yet but the guy I talked to said that they were beyond overwhelmed with riders.
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  #9198  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2016, 11:50 PM
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Oh for anyone wondering about the RTD Bronco parade ridership, I called RTD and they haven't got any official numbers just yet but the guy I talked to said that they were beyond overwhelmed with riders.
Not surprised. While waiting for friends to come downtown who were stuck at various LRT stations I had some fun reading the posts to RTD's Facebook page -people had a lot of over the top hate for going to a celebration-. Fortunately I convinced my friends to divert to some local buses and they made it in time.

Thinking about it though if the estimates are close to accurate the equivalent of over 1/3 of the population of the metro area went downtown on one day. My guesstimate is that RTD handled over 10 times what it normally gets heading downtown on an average weekday (granted spread out over a longer period of time). I would be surprised if any transit system in the world could easily take that sort of stress. Sure in raw numbers midtown Manhattan, the loop in Chicago, gare du nord, shinjuku, etc could probably handle it, but not the percentage increases.
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  #9199  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2016, 12:00 AM
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Not surprised. While waiting for friends to come downtown who were stuck at various LRT stations I had some fun reading the posts to RTD's Facebook page -people had a lot of over the top hate for going to a celebration-. Fortunately I convinced my friends to divert to some local buses and they made it in time.

Thinking about it though if the estimates are close to accurate the equivalent of over 1/3 of the population of the metro area went downtown on one day. My guesstimate is that RTD handled over 10 times what it normally gets heading downtown on an average weekday (granted spread out over a longer period of time). I would be surprised if any transit system in the world could easily take that sort of stress. Sure in raw numbers midtown Manhattan, the loop in Chicago, gare du nord, shinjuku, etc could probably handle it, but not the percentage increases.
Munich's system seems to handle it just fine during Oktoberfest, but they have preparation and experience every year to handle that.

From the pictures I have seen, it sure didn't look anywhere near 1 million people at the rally. A lot yes, but not 1 million a lot.
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  #9200  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2016, 12:11 AM
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Munich's system seems to handle it just fine during Oktoberfest, but they have preparation and experience every year to handle that.

From the pictures I have seen, it sure didn't look anywhere near 1 million people at the rally. A lot yes, but not 1 million a lot.
I was at Oktoberfest in Munich opening weekend in 2009, granted it was a while ago so the numbers could have changed and memory is imperfect but it seemed like less people even in raw numbers. Is it really that big of a percentage of population going there relative to Munich as a whole?
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