Calgary Roads

[You Need A Thneed]

Originally Posted by milomilo

It's not just roads causing sprawl...

Originally Posted by RyLucky

Yeah, but sprawl might not be such a dirty word if communities were better designed for transit and active transportation.


Anyway, better by the airport than by Balzac.

The Newest communities are designed quite well in that regard.

The Country Hills Station and the 128th Ave (Skyview) stations have no single family homes planned within a couple hundred metres of the station. It's all higher density, and not just duplexes either.

[RyLucky]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Won't be long until Rocky View County is clamoring for an 'Outer Ring Road'.

At 20 km from the city centre, Calgary ring road's northern and southern extreme are already further out than Houston's outer ring road.

Originally Posted by googspecial

According to my Transportation Engineering Instructor at SAIT, the province is already buying up land as it comes available for the outer rings roads of both Calgary & Edmonton.

She/he is probably thinking of the current ring road, which was originally envisioned as an "outer" ring beyond Sarcee, Glenmore, et al.

[MalcolmTucker]

Yeah, buying hasn't started iirc. Land Assembly Project Area Act was created to avoid the court cases that happened last time around and hasn't been used yet. Main reason is there isn't any money to do so.

[RyLucky]

Originally Posted by You Need A Thneed

The Newest communities are designed quite well in that regard.

The Country Hills Station and the 128th Ave (Skyview) stations have no single family homes planned within a couple hundred metres of the station. It's all higher density, and not just duplexes either.

True, and those are good examples, but a lot of new development could be much better. Even neighbourhoods that brand themselves as pedestrian friendly often seem as though they were designed by someone who has never commuted without a car. It's even worse in office park/retail districts like Quarry Park, Westmount Campus, Airport Trail, East Hills, Deerfoot Crossing, Aurora - all designed in the past decade. For the record, QP and Westmount could be worse. 1/3 of the problem would be solved if they just pushed development to whichever property line has best transit access. Another 1/3 could be alleviated with mix use.

I have high hopes for some neighbourhoods like Skyview, Seton, UofC West Campus, University Heights, and Currie Barracks - though most of those are brownfield.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by RyLucky

At 20 km from the city centre, Calgary ring road's northern and southern extreme are already further out than Houston's outer ring road.

Not quite. Houston's is easily 25km out at the corners in the north. Calgary just barely gets to 20km in the extreme SE.

Either way... scary. What's weird is that in Houston it takes an hour to drive from the outer ring road to downtown. In Calgary you can do it in half the time. We just don't have the congestion they do. Plus Houston has a metric fuck-ton of development outside its outer ring road, while still keeping shitloads of undeveloped land within. I just do not understand how people can commute from places like Conroe without wanting to kill themselves, while open land lays fallow 1/4 of the distance from downtown.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by You Need A Thneed

The Newest communities are designed quite well in that regard.

The Country Hills Station and the 128th Ave (Skyview) stations have no single family homes planned within a couple hundred metres of the station. It's all higher density, and not just duplexes either.

I do hope this is the direction future communities go in and I don't see why it won't with good planning. I like how Saddletowne is right in the centre of a (albeit lowish density) development - walking distance to many homes - rather than being in the middle of Crowchild, for example.

[milomilo]

What purpose would it serve?

[DizzyEdge]

I kind of think the sprawl boogey man within Calgary is overstated. This is the actual bad sprawl:

https://maps.google.com/?ll=51.16529...84543&t=h&z=14

[MasterG]

Originally Posted by milomilo

I do hope this is the direction future communities go in and I don't see why it won't with good planning. I like how Saddletowne is right in the centre of a (albeit lowish density) development - walking distance to many homes - rather than being in the middle of Crowchild, for example.

I do like Saddletowne, it's certainly a start in the right direction. Saddletowne isn't the worst at this, but the thing that bothers me still is that there is still no mixing of use in many of these neighbourhoods. Although they are better than old ones, there is still the nonsensical fence and alley separating mid-density apartment blocks from the only retail in walking distance, and this happens all over the place. Very Sim-city ish where all buildings seem to face the opposite way

It's almost that they new to zone to put density near the retail and services, but didn't know to cut a hole in the fence or sound-wall to actually matter. So close... yet so far.

In time we will get there!

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

I kind of think the sprawl boogey man within Calgary is overstated. This is the actual bad sprawl:

https://maps.google.com/?ll=51.16529...84543&t=h&z=14

Ironically, that horrible exurban sprawl is what will constrain the urban sprawl in that part of the city for a long time to come. It'll probably be 30-40 years before we see another development start in that area. If not much longer.

And yeah. That sprawl is Houston-worthy. Works great in a town of 5000, not so much in a million+ city.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by MasterG

Although they are better than old ones, there is still the nonsensical fence and alley separating mid-density apartment blocks from the only retail in walking distance, and this happens all over the place. Very Sim-city ish where all buildings seem to face the opposite way

It's almost that they new to zone to put density near the retail and services, but didn't know to cut a hole in the fence or sound-wall to actually matter. So close... yet so far.

It's something that a lot of places do, but Calgary is horrible for it - making movement difficult. I see it in residential/commercial mixing like you describe, and I also see it within our commercial developments - it's astounding how many adjacent parking lots cannot be driven between. Forcing traffic back out to the road, just to turn into the next lot 10 feet away.

It's just an example of segmentation of space that defies rational explanation. It's rampant in recent suburbs - otherwise walkable places (for suburbs, anyway) that suddenly are blocked by a fence surrounding multi-family. Basically encouraging everyone to drive.

[youngregina]

The airport tunnel is opening on Sunday!! I won't be able to make it, but if someone could take pictures if they drive or walk through it would be great to see!!

Also, why doesn't the road connect all the way through to the NE neighbourhoods yet? You would think for a 300 million dollar project you'd want it to be as functional as could be when it first opens. Right now, its a tunnel to nowhere really.

[mersar]

Originally Posted by youngregina

The airport tunnel is opening on Sunday!! I won't be able to make it, but if someone could take pictures if they drive or walk through it would be great to see!!

Also, why doesn't the road connect all the way through to the NE neighbourhoods yet? You would think for a 300 million dollar project you'd want it to be as functional as could be when it first opens. Right now, its a tunnel to nowhere really.

Essentially due to grandstanding.

The airport authority only agreed to the tunnel if the city built several other interchanges that benefit the airport. The city says those interchanges aren't needed now, so they have to live with Airport Trail dead-ending at 36th. Neither side seems willing to budge so it will stay like that for a while I'd suspect.

[RyLucky]

Originally Posted by mersar

Essentially due to grandstanding.

The airport authority only agreed to the tunnel if the city built several other interchanges that benefit the airport. The city says those interchanges aren't needed now, so they have to live with Airport Trail dead-ending at 36th. Neither side seems willing to budge so it will stay like that for a while I'd suspect.

[milomilo]

Count me in with the people that doesn't see the need for the Airport Tunnel - it seems to connect nowhere to nowhere (even after the East side is built out). What's wrong with CHB?

[lineman]

AFAIK Airport Trail is eventually going (supposed) to be free flow to Stoney, whereas CHB will have many signalled intersections.

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Ironically, that horrible exurban sprawl is what will constrain the urban sprawl in that part of the city for a long time to come. It'll probably be 30-40 years before we see another development start in that area. If not much longer.

And yeah. That sprawl is Houston-worthy. Works great in a town of 5000, not so much in a million+ city.

I wonder though, won't the outward pressure cause property values there to skyrocket, perhaps leading to selloffs to cash in?

[PPAR]

In 20 years we will all be glad of the foresight the city showed in constructing the airport tunnel. In the meantime we will all whine about the cost....

[PPAR]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Ironically, that horrible exurban sprawl is what will constrain the urban sprawl in that part of the city for a long time to come. It'll probably be 30-40 years before we see another development start in that area. If not much longer.

And yeah. That sprawl is Houston-worthy. Works great in a town of 5000, not so much in a million+ city.

You may be right. Interestingly, Rocky View County has zoned the whole west side of Calgary, from the Sarcee Reserve-north as acreages. Multiple quarter- sections have been subdivided over the last decade. The area is being built up at an incredible speed with more 5000 sq.ft. Mansions than I would have thought possible. The west side within city limits is also very close to build out. Development in Calgary is soon to be leaving western Calgary for points north and south.

[You Need A Thneed]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Count me in with the people that doesn't see the need for the Airport Tunnel - it seems to connect nowhere to nowhere (even after the East side is built out). What's wrong with CHB?

It costs even more than the cost of the tunnel to handle the future traffic on CHB.

The undeveloped area on the east side of the airport, and INSIDE the ring road is huge. Easily 50,000 more residents and thousands of jobs to come in the next 10-15 years in that area.

Trust me, even now, it's not a tunnel to nowhere. There will be quite a bit of traffic through it. Full? no, not for the time being, but lots of people will use it.

CHB is getting more traffic lights, there's something like 7-8 lights planned between Metis and Deerfoot. Meanwhile, eventually Airport Trail will have no lights in that stretch.

"Why do we need Anderson, when Southland would work just fine?" - that's approximately the same statement.