The bright side of the pandemic

[Coldrsx]

Buy 4L of grain alcohol and cut it with fruit juice... 100+ drinks hahaha

[Marshal]

Here's one. I'm sure it has already been noted, but it continues to expand and intensify: the 7PM Shout Out. In the west end it is loud and boisterous. But last night I was out near Royal Columbia Hospital in New West, and it was equally impressive raining down the hillside. You can't help but be emotional when there is a cascade of this energy while dozens of emergency vehicles form a parade with all the sirens and bells. The reality is hitting home and sinking in.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Marshal

The bright side of the pandemic: and this one will prove to be not worth it: stupidity will have the curtain opened upon it. Empty headed leaders (Trump, Kushner, Bolsonaro, Putin, Rouhani . . . ), non-existent preparation and institutional structures (everywhere but esp. in the US where the hollowing out will truly manifest itself in disaster), the incompetence of weak and undermanned bureaucracies, weakened international bonds, habits we thought were laws and constitutional requirements - all will be shown in the bright lights in the aftermath of absolutely way too many deaths. Because of that, this isn't really a bright side, because it would be much preferable to fix all this in another way. So, apologies.

I can't speak to the other countries because I haven't consumed enough media to tell me what the mood is like on the ground, but I don't think the way things are turning out in the US is any great surprise. A disciplined and effective response to the situation would have been the big surprise... the way things are playing out is probably what most people would have expected. The Americans seem OK with their general state of affairs, though - not in the sense of approving of hundreds of thousands of deaths, but in the sense that they are OK with all of this as the price to be paid for the kind of system they have. Trump will probably get re-elected and govern for another 4 years. After all, it's not like he deleted a bunch of e-mails.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Buy 4L of grain alcohol and cut it with fruit juice... 100+ drinks hahaha

Brilliant!

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by esquire

I can't speak to the other countries because I haven't consumed enough media to tell me what the mood is like on the ground, but I don't think the way things are turning out in the US is any great surprise. A disciplined and effective response to the situation would have been the big surprise... the way things are playing out is probably what most people would have expected. The Americans seem OK with their general state of affairs, though - not in the sense of approving of hundreds of thousands of deaths, but in the sense that they are OK with all of this as the price to be paid for the kind of system they have. Trump will probably get re-elected and govern for another 4 years. After all, it's not like he deleted a bunch of e-mails.

I think most thoughtful Americans understand that their society is messy by design. Many, however, will be taken by surprise that their wealth isn't giving them an easy pass this time. Whether this leads to long term changes in their health care system, I couldn't say - at least, in this case, they don't have a constitutional amendment to lock them into paralysis.

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by esquire

Brilliant!

[Marshal]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I think most thoughtful Americans understand that their society is messy by design. Many, however, will be taken by surprise that their wealth isn't giving them an easy pass this time. Whether this leads to long term changes in their health care system, I couldn't say - at least, in this case, they don't have a constitutional amendment to lock them into paralysis.

Good points. Though not this messy. All free democracies are messy, the US being in the middle of the pack. Think of Italy, Greece, France, the UK . . . all still showing relative good governance, as are most US governments below the federal level.
I also like your point about wealth. If uncoordinated and unprepared, wealth loses its obvious advantages.

[urbandreamer]

Actually what I see in America, and possibly Canada and England is a class-based system: the connected (health care workers, the wealthy business class, political class, landowners) getting first dibs at hospital care, PPE, and easily attainable social isolation.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

Actually what I see in America, and possibly Canada and England is a class-based system: the connected (health care workers, the wealthy business class, political class, landowners) getting first dibs at hospital care, PPE, and easily attainable social isolation.

Where do you see the wealthy getting first dibs at hospital care in Canada?

[theman23]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

Actually what I see in America, and possibly Canada and England is a class-based system: the connected (health care workers, the wealthy business class, political class, landowners) getting first dibs at hospital care, PPE, and easily attainable social isolation.

How do health care workers get "easily attainable social isolation"?
How do health care workers get first dibs on hospital care?
It goes without saying that they get first dibs on PPE. What else do you propose?

[urbandreamer]

Living in a house vs an apartment

I propose we do nothing ... let human nature take its toll.

(No handouts, no tax credits, no job guarantees.)

Ok I'd only have done one thing: ban all flights effective 1 February.

[Marshal]

And we have another idiot exposing themselves.

[Maldive]

He's already nominated for the "Idiot Hall of Fame" and that's just for city talk.

But his flippant "life and death" remark has lowered his bar beneath grade. Guess it's possible to be right of Trump.

Searches "karma" to refresh.

[LakeLocker]

The NHL will have to restructure making it more open to Canadian money.

The pro sports market is now wide open.

Anything can happen and that to me is very exciting.

I fully suspect hockey will return to a traditional Canadian sport, as the American sports bubble collapses.

I also suspect it'll be the players eating up most of the losses in terms of revenue.

It'll take decades to build up the economic resources and local based popularity of the sport.

In the mean time Canadians are gonna be as obessed with hockey as ever.

[Architype]

All these "bright side" comments are actually pretty depressing. The bright side is that it will end eventually.

[urbandreamer]

The bright side to me is all the innovations, inventions, technology, business and investment opportunities COVID19 has created.

I concede that the poorest people and front line workers with low incomes deserve cash handouts more than those idiots living pay cheque to pay cheque with homes, cars etc. eg I agree with the Democrats proposal to give grocery store and pharmacy workers $25,000 bonuses once this crisis ends. Nurses and doctors are well paid. eg I read Washington was offering nurses $4000USD per week salary. PSWs and cleaners deserve massive pay raises.

But do small businesses and corporations need this money?

[LakeLocker]

So I've on the otherside of this thing emotionally.

I do not want things going back to the boomerish way things use to be.

Working from online is absolutely a preferred way of living.

I have hope for the first time in my life that I can move home and be relatively happy/employed.

The idea of living somewhere independent of your work/social life is incredibly appealing.

Maybe it should be, that you live somewhere because you actually want to go outside in that place.

My outdoor activities are really starting to take off, VR gaming has replaced my regular social life, and I've basically started a new career path.

I don't want to go back to the way things were, I do not want to go back to the way things were.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

The bright side to me is all the innovations, inventions, technology, business and investment opportunities COVID19 has created.

I concede that the poorest people and front line workers with low incomes deserve cash handouts more than those idiots living pay cheque to pay cheque with homes, cars etc. eg I agree with the Democrats proposal to give grocery store and pharmacy workers $25,000 bonuses once this crisis ends. Nurses and doctors are well paid. eg I read Washington was offering nurses $4000USD per week salary. PSWs and cleaners deserve massive pay raises.

But do small businesses and corporations need this money?

This is an odd post for the Canadian forum.

Unless you are suggesting something about Canada following or not following the US lead.

[someone123]

I wonder what impact this will have on the way we think about risk, and the legalism around risk.

The fact is that we all must take risks every day and we are unaware of most of them. We all die eventually. Yet we also talk as though there is such a thing as zero risk, or that introducing a non-zero risk is a big deal.

I was reminded of this when I listened to (I think a lawyer or professor) talk about a hypothetical scenario where a business exposed a person to COVID-19. What if a delivery driver gives somebody COVID-19? It'll bring down the industry! This may have seemed like a reasonable way to think about this a few months ago but does our society have the bandwidth to turn a single exposure into a legal case in April 2019 when there are 2 million known global cases? The answer is clearly no.

Undercooked egg warnings or State of California cancer warnings on coffee look even sillier than normal right now.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by someone123

I wonder what impact this will have on the way we think about risk, and the legalism around risk.

The fact is that we all must take risks every day and we are unaware of most of them. We all die eventually. Yet we also talk as though there is such a thing as zero risk, or that introducing a non-zero risk is a big deal.

I was reminded of this when I listened to (I think a lawyer or professor) talk about a hypothetical scenario where a business exposed a person to COVID-19. What if a delivery driver gives somebody COVID-19? It'll bring down the industry! This may have seemed like a reasonable way to think about this a few months ago but does our society have the bandwidth to turn a single exposure into a legal case in April 2019 when there are 2 million known global cases? The answer is clearly no.

Undercooked egg warnings or State of California cancer warnings on coffee look even sillier than normal right now.

Humans are weird about risk.

For instance, we accept about 40,000 deaths per year (in North America) as a consequence of automobile use. If we limited the top speed of vehicles to 60 km/h, we'd have but a fraction of those deaths as the worst collisions (head-on with a closing velocity of 200 km/h+) would be eliminated. People won't accept this, despite it being well within our capability to do.

Many participate in high-risk activities, like motorcycling or extreme sports.

A fair number smoke, despite the risks of dying of lung cancer prematurely.

We've sanded off the rough edges of our society and made ordinary life seem pretty safe. Maybe we've built the illusion too well and people now think they are going to live forever.

I don't know many people who are terrified of COVID-19. Indeed, as this drags on, people might eventually start chafing at the restrictions on daily life, risk be damned. This all hinges on people's desire to be cooped up and in a democracy, government can only force the people with the implicit consent of the majority.

I don't know how this all ends.