London's Malls

[ssiguy]

Although both Argyle and Westown Plaza mall not be up to much I think they will be there for the long term.
Westown is in the heart of Cherryhill as so will always have an immediate high density population centre to serve. It is also right near a student ghetto.
Argyle will continue because it is the only mall in the whole city E. of A.
There is a fairly high density population around it and is the 'working man's" mall.

[Simpseatles]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Argyle will continue because it is the only mall in the whole city E. of A.
There is a fairly high density population around it and is the 'working man's" mall.

True, but Argyle is less of a real mall, and more of a mini-mall with a dumb centre around it.

[MolsonExport]

Argyle is a mini mall. I ventured in just once, to take in the decrepitude. It was only perhaps a hundred metres in length in the interior section. A micro mall. Crap. Almost as boring as as a trip to Fabricland.

[ssiguy]

That may well be true but it will never suffer the fate of Westmount, Oakridge, or the London malls.
It maybe realitvely small and dingy but it will survive when other's fail.
It has a complete monopoly on the EofA and many working class people will never set foot in upscale Masonville and White Oaks and Westmount are too small.
If I had to bet on 3 malls that would still be here in 50 years I would put my money on one of them being Argyle.

[Snark]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Argyle is a mini mall. I ventured in just once, to take in the decrepitude. It was only perhaps a hundred metres in length in the interior section. A micro mall. Crap. Almost as boring as as a trip to Fabricland.

In Argyle Mall's "defense" (and I use that term in the loosest of connotations), it used to have a larger interior section - perhaps 180 or so metres instead of the current hundred or so metres. A lot of that facility has been converted over the years to large, exterior-access only units so as to service a handful of big-box retailers who want access and exposure off of the parking lot. Almost all of the Pond Mills Centre mall was converted this way 10 or 15 years ago in anticipation of the big-box invasion.

At the time Arglye mall was built, 180 metres was a big mall. Westmount, White Oaks, Wellington Square, and Oakridge malls were about the same. As an example, the original White Oaks mall was only the hexagon portion closest to Wellington Road - a staggering (for its day) 275 or so metres of shopping nirvana. In that time, the interior looked a lot like that shopping centre that Alex is record shopping for in "A Clockwork Orange". It was new and exciting because it was still something different then. In their time these malls were the "big five" shopping centres in the city.

The difference is that over the years, some neighborhoods in the city have advanced, some not. Those considered to have greater retail spending capacity got their mall expanded, the rest did not. White Oaks for example has been expanded by nearly a kilometer of corridor length to over 1,200 metres of corridor. Argyle mall has shrunk and converted to adapt to changing times and tastes, and not received the upgrades that the facilities in more affluent areas have received. Sometimes it ain't pretty being EOA.

It is true, London used to be a retail capital of the nation. It was considered affluent, and the perfect test market - and was used as such for years. If I can recall all of the malls that were around by the late 80's:

Argyle, Masonville, Oxbury, Northlans, Masonville, Sherwood Forest, Oakridge, London, Westown, Galleria, Mews, City Centre, Westmount, Pond Mills, White Oaks, Superstore - all in a city of perhaps 250,000 (although with an admittedly huge regional external drawing area).

A little over saturation perhaps? Any problem understanding why the traditional downtown retail died at that time?

I recall a simpler time... when the site of the present day White Oaks mall was just a stand-alone Savette department store on the edge of town.

[MolsonExport]

^interesting. But you forgot Cherryhill village mall, which just packs in the seniors.

What is left of Superstore mall? Has anybody dared venture inside lately?

[Snark]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

^interesting. But you forgot Cherryhill village mall, which just packs in the seniors.

What is left of Superstore mall? Has anybody dared venture inside lately?

Oops. I just dated myself. Westown Plaza mall was renamed Cherryhill Village mall some time ago. I'll always think of it as Westown due to the fact that it was called that when I got groceries there when I lived in the original big apartment complex at Proutfoot back in the mid-eighties. I think it was an A&P grocery store there back then.

As for the Superstore mall, anything on the south side of the 401 has never received any substantial through traffic other than folks commuting to St.Thomas. The freeway represents a psychological barrier for anyone north of the freeway (which is pretty much everyone). In terms of a sustainable substantial commercial development, it is a "bridge too far" now and when it was built in the mid 60's. To demonstrate that, a really unique thing about the development is that when "Treasure Island" (the original name of the complex) was built, there wasn't even municipal servicing available - as the location had only been annexed from Westminster township a few years earlier and was far from developed areas, so the development required its own private water tower to provide adequate water supply and pressure for the development. Today, that water tower is used to hang the giant golden arches sign for the McD's restaurant there. Oddly enough, if the owners can wait it out, the land in addition to the arches will become gold in 20 or 25 years when residential development starts south of the 401. The location will be priceless.

Another truly unique gem that no one can checkout anymore is the Mews. This mall sat on what is now a parking lot at King and Clarence (less than a hectare (!)). On the exterior it was undeniably hideous: dark brown brick and dark brown corrugated siding. No windows or even external features of any kind. In a different location, one might have mistaken it for a small electrical generation facility or thereabouts. The thing went up 3 stories above ground and 2 below. Inside however was truly unique: essentially 3 hexagon-shaped corridors each about 40 or so metres in "diameter" stacked on top of each other and connected by escalators. At the top of that was a multiplex. It was a marvel of functional architecture to get this all squeezed in such a tight space. The stores and corridors were all relatively small by today's standards, and that coupled with the fact that everywhere (including the corridors) were carpeted, entirely artificially lit, and the vertical arrangement gave the whole place a totally non-mall feel. It was more of an institutional feel - like a campus or research agency buried deep underground. Sort of a shopping version of the Cheyenne Mountain command center. Still, it was cool at the time and in its day was quite popular. Lastly, there was a kick-ass higher-end Japanese restaurant in the basement level - Suisha Gardens. The chefs would come out to your table like some sort of samurai and prepare and stir fry your meal right in front of your table - with all of the accompanying showmanship - much like they do at the Japanese restaurant at Epcot in Disney nowadays. It was a hot place to eat in its day.

Alas, it fell victim to the downtown decline as well, and for a while became a bargain outlet called "Smuggler's Alley", and eventually that died as well. After that it was torn down, because at least the taxes for the land could be paid with parking lot revenue. In today's world such a facility has no place and would never be sustainable, but it was a product of the times - and an appropriate one at that. Now, it is a prime location for a major signature high-rise development if there ever was one.

[ssiguy]

I remember the Mews. It had the theatres and some small stores but mostly it was just seen as the go between between Wellington Square {Eaton's} and Richmond and Dundas [Simpson}.
I'm really dating myself but those where the days when downtown was rockin and the streets were full all day down Dundas and at night cruising down Dundas in your Camero or TransAm was THE thing to do on a Friday or Saturday night.
Everyone went to the Capitol or Century for the latest movies and if you were in the burbs then Westmount was the big one on the block.
I'll tell you how out of the loop I am.............I didn't even know they changed the name of Westown Plaza Mall until 2 comments ago!

[manny_santos]

I'm just old enough to remember the Mews, although by then (1995) it was called Smuggler's Alley. By then the only open entrance was off Dundas Street, and the six-screen cinema was the only tenant left. You had to walk by a bunch of abandoned storefronts to get to the theatre. As I recall it was the only theatre in the city with more than three screens until Galleria opened in 1989. I might be wrong but I think Huron Market Place had a three-screen cinema during the late 80s that later expanded.

I saw the original Toy Story at Smuggler's Alley. Some of the storefronts by then were being used to promote movies that were playing.

Wellington 8 opened in early 1996 and then in 1997 the Cineplex Odeon at Westmount moved from a two-screen cinema in the parking lot into a six-screen cinema in the mall. I believe the cinema at Smuggler's Alley was closed by the time Westmount put in its new theatre.

[MolsonExport]

wonderfully interesting to a relative newbie to London.

[Simpseatles]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

wonderfully interesting to a relative newbie to London.

^Same goes for me, because I haven't been around all that long!

I'm not sure if this is true, but I heard from someone that Argyle Mall was London's first mall? Anybody know about this?

[manny_santos]

Wellington Square was the first, opening in 1960. I am not sure when Argyle Mall opened.

Now, Oakridge Mall was an interesting case study in the development of suburban shopping in London. It started out as six separate buildings, including Loblaws on the east end, Woolworth's on the west end, and four other buildings which included storefronts on all sides. Many of the original tenants were branches of locally-owned businesses in the downtown area. Brewer's Retail had a small seventh building in the parking lot.

It was around 1972 the mall was enclosed, and Woolco was built on the north side of the property. I'm not sure what happened to the Woolworth's store at that point, but it was converted into a Loblaws in 1989 while the original Loblaws became stores and mall administration. The Beer Store moved from the parking lot into a part of the former Loblaws. The inside of the mall had a mix of chain retailers and locally-owned businesses.

Unfortunately the mall and Loblaws were heavily neglected in the 90s, and by the time Wal-Mart left in 2003, it was clear that mall could not survive as it was. Some local grocery shoppers even avoided that store and drove to other Loblaws locations in the city to shop, as it had limited selection; some (including myself) found the store filthy in places and run down, even though it was less than 15 years old.

[Simpseatles]

Originally Posted by Snark

As for the Superstore mall, anything on the south side of the 401 has never received any substantial through traffic other than folks commuting to St.Thomas. The freeway represents a psychological barrier for anyone north of the freeway (which is pretty much everyone). In terms of a sustainable substantial commercial development, it is a "bridge too far" now and when it was built in the mid 60's. To demonstrate that, a really unique thing about the development is that when "Treasure Island" (the original name of the complex) was built, there wasn't even municipal servicing available - as the location had only been annexed from Westminster township a few years earlier and was far from developed areas, so the development required its own private water tower to provide adequate water supply and pressure for the development. Today, that water tower is used to hang the giant golden arches sign for the McD's restaurant there. Oddly enough, if the owners can wait it out, the land in addition to the arches will become gold in 20 or 25 years when residential development starts south of the 401. The location will be priceless.

.

I didn't realize that there was an actual enclosed part of the mall there. I just figured that is was a rundown plaza with discount retailers. Then I looked on streetview and there was a sign reading "Superstore Mall entrance here".

When was the last time anyone has been in there? What's it like?

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Simpseatles

I didn't realize that there was an actual enclosed part of the mall there. I just figured that is was a rundown plaza with discount retailers. Then I looked on streetview and there was a sign reading "Superstore Mall entrance here".

When was the last time anyone has been in there? What's it like?

I ventured in there in 2005. Basically you go in, there's an info booth in the middle of the corridor selling lottery tickets, and I think there was a variety store in there. As I recall most of the storefronts were vacant. It was more dead inside than London Mall.

[MolsonExport]

Not really a mall, but what about that Gibralter Weekend Market at Dundas and Third? With Bob's Ultimate Meats? And Di's Fresh Cut Fries? And really terrible ads on the radio?

http://gibraltarweekendmarket.com/

Went in on New Year's day (only place open). 99% of the stuff is junk. Interesting, nevertheless, from a voyeuristic-seedy perspective.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Not really a mall, but what about that Gibralter Weekend Market at Dundas and Third? With Bob's Ultimate Meats? And Di's Fresh Cut Fries? And really terrible ads on the radio?

http://gibraltarweekendmarket.com/

Went in on New Year's day (only place open). 99% of the stuff is junk. Interesting, nevertheless, from a voyeuristic-seedy perspective.

Baby-back-baby-back-baby-back RIIIIIIBS!

FREEEEEE pepperoni!

No drooling PLEEEEASE!

BOB'S ULTIMATE...MEEEEEEATS!

It's really really good.

ATDUNDASANDTHIRD!


I'm inspired to start another thread.

[MolsonExport]

^That's it!! Really bad commercial. Suits the location. At Gibralter Weekend Market: It's the Ultimate!

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

^That's it!! Really bad commercial. Suits the location. At Gibralter Weekend Market: It's the Ultimate!

At Dundas and Third, the shopping is superb....Gibraltar Trade Centre, it's the ultimate!

That ran for a very long time...I remember hearing it in the mid-1990s.

[ericlewis91]

So Target coming to Canada

I wonder which Zellers stores in London will be converted...

Masonville
Westmount

I think will be converted!

not sure about the rest? any guesses

[MolsonExport]

all of them, I hope. Target does crap much better than Zellers; the latter is quite possibly the most depressing place to shop on the planet.