Development Concepts and Ideas

[cam477]

Originally Posted by overboard

I was fortunate enough to see Brent Toderian, as well as top planners from Toronto and Montreal, at a recent conference on Canadian urbanism in Halifax where he gave a similar talk. One of the things that stuck with me most was his point about prioritizing transportation (around 3:30 in that video). All modes of transportation are not created equal, and that's yet another issue the city has to take a stance on sooner rather than later. It's unfortunate that Newfoundland is so invested in the single occupancy vehicle but it's not too late to change our priorities.

Yeah, I think that's a critical point for us in St. John's. In this talk or another one (I can’t remember) he makes the point that when you plan around single occupancy vehicle transportation, it fails single occupancy vehicle transportation. This is counterintuitive and I think it’s tough for a lot of people to get. But more and more roads and freeways do not necessarily elevate traffic problems and they can make them worse. Just look at Stavanger Drive: It was built completely around single occupancy vehicles and it does a terrible job of serving single occupancy vehicles (and of course every other mode of transportation). I agree that we need to prioritize modes of transit. Which doesn’t mean a war on cars. I think it needs to be explained to the public so that they understand that it is not a war on cars and everyone, including motorists, are better off when we plan for multimodal transportation.

Yeah I saw that CBC doc zone, it was good. Of course there are multiple factors that have contributed to Vancouver’s insane bubble. I more so threw it out there to play devil’s advocate and offer some of the criticisms that ideas like this will receive from the public.

When it comes to Brent Toderian – I’m not really concerned with who deserves more credit, him or his predecessors. Also when it comes to him being fired, unless it’s due to the failue of these ideas we’re discussing, it doesn’t really matter. It seems more like a local political issue in Vancouver.

[delesseps]

I was playing with ideas for the institutional land to be vacated by Bishops College and Booth Memorial and I came up with a residential layout for the Booth part of the site. It needs a new road to break the land into reasonable pieces, and more direct access to St. Clare's from Freshwater Road and Empire Avenue wouldn't hurt. Mercifully, Raleigh Street is numbered toward Pennywell Road, so the road wouldn't need a different name. It would exit onto Freshwater Road where Morris' Service Station (MSS) is now. My preferred option would be to close Winchester Street south of Liverpool Street and re-build the intersection of Freshwater Road and Empire Avenue as a five-point roundabout with access to Liverpool Street, but that's a big job. Instead, a left turn restriction for vehicles exiting the new road would probably be sufficient to stop traffic on Freshwater Road from getting too hairy.

As shown, the underlying map is from Google Earth. The brown is an R3 zone for semi-detached housing. A developer could fit three duplexes on the east side of the new road and eleven on the west side. The white and orange blocks are an A2 zone. With the existing apartment building on Keane Place and the height of Booth Memorial, slightly taller apartment buildings wouldn't be much of a change. Alternatively, the northern parcel could be given to the owners of MSS for a new garage. The green is parkland with the white line representing a new trail between Keane Place and the soccer pitch. There will be some leftover land on Pennywell Road. It's enough for one R2 building lot, shown in yellow.



I'd like to see some commercial or mixed-use development of the Bishops College site, but it's not terribly relevant to this proposal. There is a LOT of underused land between Freshwater Road and Hamilton Avenue.

[delesseps]

It seems absurd to continue maintaining St. Bon's Forum using public donations when the aging rink has had problems for years. The site of the former Canadian Tire on Elizabeth Avenue is large enough for a two-pad arena with about as much outdoor parking as is there now. (The Canadian Tire building is approximately 320 by 170 feet, whereas a single NHL-sized ice surface is 200 by 85 feet). If necessary, additional parking could be provided by removing the right-turn lane from Torbay Road to Elizabeth Avenue and converting the outer lane of Elizabeth Avenue to metered parking between Torbay Road and New Cove Road. The parking would also provide much-needed traffic-calming. The net gain of one ice surface after closing St. Bon's forum and the diversification of the neighbourhood near Torbay Road and Elizabeth Avenue would be major advantages compared to maintaining the existing rink.

[PoscStudent]

Coleman's is going in the old Canadian Tire building. Your idea sounds cooler though.

[LeMarchantNL]

Originally Posted by PoscStudent

Coleman's is going in the old Canadian Tire building. Your idea sounds cooler though.

Is it really? I've heard no announcement and can't find anything online? Interesting though.

[Arrakis]

Can anyone confirm this (I'll call it rumour for now)?
Too bad Coleman's can't get into Churchill Sq. That would be a really nice addition to the square and being so close to MUN residences too. But alas Loblaws owns that building so that's prob not gonna happen any time soon.

Originally Posted by PoscStudent

Coleman's is going in the old Canadian Tire building. Your idea sounds cooler though.

[ed0797]

Some of you may recognize this picture from the recently popular Facebook page that I grabbed it from. When I scrolled past it all I could think of was how wonderful it would be to rebuild the building on the left in it's original place, with Roebothan-Mckay-Marshall burnt down and all. If they ever plan to rebuild, or the city eventually expropriates the land or something, I would love to see the council approached with this.

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by Arrakis

Can anyone confirm this (I'll call it rumour for now)?
Too bad Coleman's can't get into Churchill Sq. That would be a really nice addition to the square and being so close to MUN residences too. But alas Loblaws owns that building so that's prob not gonna happen any time soon.

Colemans family are based out of Corner brook, the locations in town were always an afterthought.

They don't have the nerve to push into the sj john's market.

Granted colemans brand could really fit well in town, as the anti boxstore brand.

Hooking the college kids would give them a killer image.

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by delesseps

It seems absurd to continue maintaining St. Bon's Forum using public donations when the aging rink has had problems for years. The site of the former Canadian Tire on Elizabeth Avenue is large enough for a two-pad arena with about as much outdoor parking as is there now. (The Canadian Tire building is approximately 320 by 170 feet, whereas a single NHL-sized ice surface is 200 by 85 feet). If necessary, additional parking could be provided by removing the right-turn lane from Torbay Road to Elizabeth Avenue and converting the outer lane of Elizabeth Avenue to metered parking between Torbay Road and New Cove Road. The parking would also provide much-needed traffic-calming. The net gain of one ice surface after closing St. Bon's forum and the diversification of the neighbourhood near Torbay Road and Elizabeth Avenue would be major advantages compared to maintaining the existing rink.

Missed this, I think its the wrong part of town IMO.

[delesseps]

Originally Posted by Stryker

Missed this, I think its the wrong part of town IMO.

Where would you site a new rink if you were building one in the City of St. John's?

[delesseps]

I've always thought the dump at 97 Merrymeeting Road, combined with the Needs and the garage next door, would be a good place for a three-storey, mixed-used building with parking to the rear. It's one of many places in the city with potential for densification if small parcels of land can be consolidated. In the short term, the sale would seem to be a good investment opportunity for whoever owns the Needs.

[J_Murphy]

Originally Posted by delesseps

I've always thought the dump at 97 Merrymeeting Road, combined with the Needs and the garage next door, would be a good place for a three-storey, mixed-used building with parking to the rear. It's one of many places in the city with potential for densification if small parcels of land can be consolidated. In the short term, the sale would seem to be a good investment opportunity for whoever owns the Needs.

I think a lot of Merrymeeting Road could use a good demolition. My understanding is a lot of those homes were built after the great fire and were not built with very good quality, which is quite obvious with a lot of them. I looked at a couple on this street when buying my first house 5 years ago and it didn't take long for me to realize they were dumps. I like your idea for this particular piece of land. A mixed use building with some small commerical/retail on the bottom would fit in nice.

[Horsell]

Rather than a good demolition, which would be unfair to a number of longtime residents, perhaps what is needed is a good neighborhood plan. I don’t know if this area was talked about much in the various forums held recently but it certainly should have been.
Increasing density by building the occasional multi-unit building is being hampered, in my opinion, by new/existing regulations. One such regulation is the requirement for parking. You will notice that whenever any infill is done these days in areas such as this, there is always the lovely street presence of a garage door. To build, as you have suggested, a small mixed use building would require ‘x’ number of parking spaces per residential unit as well as an additional ‘y’ units per retail area. Add it all up and the parking would probably take up a larger footprint than the building.
I once lived in a modest 4 story building with street level retail with approximately 20 parking stalls, in a courtyard setting, for close to 60 apartments. No, it certainly wasn’t here and the apartments certainly weren’t cheap either.
While I understand the need for parking, until such time as we can wean ourselves from the automobile, it should be partly up to the developer as to whether or not they want to include parking in their buildings. If they feel they can market their properties without that amenity then they should be allowed to do so. Many people who live in that area and others may choose not to have cars for whatever reason. Why should they be held back from having modern, comfortable housing available to them?

[MrChills]

Originally Posted by J_Murphy

I think a lot of Merrymeeting Road could use a good demolition. My understanding is a lot of those homes were built after the great fire and were not built with very good quality, which is quite obvious with a lot of them. I looked at a couple on this street when buying my first house 5 years ago and it didn't take long for me to realize they were dumps. I like your idea for this particular piece of land. A mixed use building with some small commerical/retail on the bottom would fit in nice.

That entire area is in need of a demolition, including most of the streets that connect between there and Freshwater (Cook, Field, Spencer). The location is perfect for high density three-four story townhomes. With a new revived area here, a lot of the retail that sits empty or under used on Cookstown/Military/Longs Hill could come back to life in an Updown / Centre City centre.

[jthetzel]

Originally Posted by PoscStudent

Coleman's is going in the old Canadian Tire building. Your idea sounds cooler though.

Any updates on the old Canadian Tire building on Elizabeth Ave? I heard a rumour that Leon's Furniture might move in there, subletting additional space to smaller businesses.

Can't say I am enjoying the drive to Stavanger for a box of drywall anchors when a bike ride to Elizabeth Ave previously sufficed.

[PoscStudent]

Originally Posted by jthetzel

Any updates on the old Canadian Tire building on Elizabeth Ave? I heard a rumour that Leon's Furniture might move in there, subletting additional space to smaller businesses.

Can't say I am enjoying the drive to Stavanger for a box of drywall anchors when a bike ride to Elizabeth Ave previously sufficed.

It went up for sale after I heard Coleman's was going there.

That'd be a much better location for Leon's, I would think.

[Horsell]

Councillor Hann mentioned a week or so ago, when asked about such vacant properties, that the city may consider rezoning some of them to allow for different types of developments and he suggested possibly taller residential buildings.

It’s all well enough to suggest that something like that would be considered, however I’m sure it will take a proposal to drive it.

The Canadian Tire store on Elizabeth may be easier to repurpose unless they too have clauses restricting future use, similar to Loblaws. For instance, a Home Hardware at that location might do quite well but would Canadian Tire consider it competition and block such a use.

This whole Loblaws thing is crazy but what can you do. Even expropriation wouldn’t be appropriate because, as far as I know, the properties are not owned by Loblaws they are just leased. The owners just have to sit back and cash the cheques.

As for rezoning these properties to allow “towers”, well that only makes sense if there is a market for what you can put in that tower, be it residential or office space. The other consideration is abutting properties. It’s one thing to live behind a Canadian Tire, an entirely different thing to live behind a 10 story tower.

[rthomasd]

Who actually owns the old Canadian Tire property on Elizabeth? I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Sobey still own it, given that there was Lawtons and Sobeys there before Cdn Tire. That might have a bearing on what might go there.

[Arrakis]

Though before when Lawtons And Sobeys were there, Canadian Tire still had a store there at that location, although it was a much smaller store. Canadian Tire expanded into Sobeys and Lawtons space once those stores moved into larger spaces down the road. But it's quite possible as you say that Sobeys still may own it. It's certainly a valuable piece of real estate.

[J_Murphy]

So this area has really been bothering me lately. I assume it is owned by Fortis along with the rest of that block and would be redeveloped if they ever do anything with it. It is an absolutely hideous area and a waste of useful space.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@47.56477...43czIHgpzw!2e0

So much potential to put something nice here. Whatever happens to it, I hope it incorporates an open indoor and outdoor area (with a large seating area). Sitting here would give a beautiful view out the narrows and towards Signal Hill. The positioning of it would allow it to catch a lot of daytime sunlight (if in fact, we ever see the sun again).