Great Lakes Cities

[Wigs]

The white Larkin Center of Commerce building alone is 1.3 million square feet. More square footage than Buffalo's tallest (One Seneca Tower/former HSBC). Equivalent to a large skyscraper.
It's nice to see Larkinville coming along. Hopefully they build more infill like the last photo.

[Doady]

Originally Posted by benp

The demand for new large office space just hasn't been enough to justify the costs of new construction in Buffalo. The availability of large floor plans in former industrial spaces outside of downtown has offset many potential new builds. The Larkin District has over 2M square feet of space in-use that has been converted from former soap factory and warehouses in the last 10-15 years and now is a growing multi-use district a couple of miles just outside of downtown, and is seeing new-build retail and residential recently.

Ah, lofts. That is much nicer than new builds. Converting old buildings is important.

Is this an example of a conversion?

https://maps.app.goo.gl/HN4pWohd537pSpak6

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by East72nd

Average Height of 10 Tallest
Chicago: 1,070 feet
Pittsburgh: 614 feet
Detroit: 564 feet
Cleveland: 555 feet
Milwaukee: 460 feet
St. Louis: 454 feet
Buffalo: 332 feet

And if you went back in time about 20 years to before Milwaukee started it's tower mini-boom, its top 10 average would've only been 379', which was more in Buffalo's league at the time, rather than St. Louis's.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Wigs

Buffalo can be easily mocked

I wasn't trying to mock Buffalo, just lamenting its anemic skyline growth over the past half century.

Originally Posted by Wigs

Steely, remind us what was the city limits growth of all the rust belt cities?

I don't have the numbers at hand, but I believe that Buffalo and Chicago were the only city propers out of the rustbelt regulars that saw population growth last decade.

Cincy grew as well, if you wanna include it in the group, but it's more on the bubble than the others. Maybe you can argue that Chicago is too because it's in such a different size class.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by Doady

Ah, lofts. That is much nicer than new builds. Converting old buildings is important.

Is this an example of a conversion?

https://maps.app.goo.gl/HN4pWohd537pSpak6

Yes, that's the massive redevelopment of the former Trico windshield wiper factory.
The windshield wiper was invented in Buffalo, and the gargantuan (built in stages) ~600,000 sq ft factory operated until the 1990s when production moved to Mexico.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/xJSmnudHqKmzvPzX9

Fun fact

Buffalo singer Ani DiFranco mentioned the Trico plant in her song 'Cradle and All'

… I live in New York, New York
City that never shuts up
In the daylight everything is so gory
You can hear snatches of stranger's sorry stories
And I moved there from Buffalo
But that's nothing
The Trico plant moved to Mexico
Left my Uncle standing out in the cold
Said there's your last paycheck
Have fun growing old

• Video Link

Fun fact #2
John Oishei was the founder/head of Trico products, and his foundation donated $10M to the construction of the c.2017 Oishei Children's Hospital just to the north of the former Trico factory.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/VXMJ62cDd49SaUHz6

There's been some demolition because of the various additions, but the majority of the structure is being converted to 242 apartments from 1 to 4 bedroom units, in a perfect location bridging downtown to the medical campus.
https://www.tricobuildingapartments.com/

[MayDay]

Originally Posted by BigDipper 80

I feel like it's really hard to capture how huge the Key Tower actually is in photos. It's pretty crazy that a mid-sized Rust Belt city has a 947 foot tall skyscraper.

It’s not so crazy if you’re familiar with the history and time period leading up to its construction, when Cleveland (as with so many other aspects) punched well above its weight in the banking and finance sector.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

I wasn't trying to mock Buffalo, just lamenting its anemic skyline growth over the past half century.

I just meant that list made it seem like "poor Buffalo". It's hard for its Perma-rust belt image to start to fade away

Originally Posted by MayDay

It’s not so crazy if you’re familiar with the history and time period leading up to its construction, when Cleveland (as with so many other aspects) punched well above its weight in the banking and finance sector.

Back when KeyBank was a top 10 bank if not closer to top 5? I was a 10-11 year old in awe at the "Society Center"
Please correct me for my lack of CLEknowledge

Now, shockingly, it's been surpassed by Buffalo based M&T Bank. The former HSBC tower is now mixed use with terracotta/gun metal paint job, M&T logo/$58M tech hub.
For 50 years Buffalo didn't have much to boast about, okay

Wiki (West facing view towards Can-a-duh)


The rankings might change with the 1st quarter 2024 release
https://www.federalreserve.gov/relea...nt/default.htm

[JManc]

Buffalo's image won't ever change until the Bills win the Super Bowl.

[Nouvellecosse]

Buffalo is one of my favourite animal-named cities, easily edging out Gander, Goose Bay, Red Deer, and even White Horse.

[Doady]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Buffalo is one of my favourite animal-named cities, easily edging out Gander, Goose Bay, Red Deer, and even White Horse.

Phoenix is the best.

[benp]

Originally Posted by Doady

Phoenix is the best.

Boca Raton.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

here's some skyline "health" data for cities we consider Great Lakes and/or adjacent Rust Belt:

I went ahead and filled in the rest of the Midwest's significant skylines, using CTBUH data.


Average Height of 10 Tallest:

Chicago: 1,112 feet
Minneapolis: 627 feet
Pittsburgh: 614 feet
Cleveland: 562 feet
Detroit: 560 feet
Columbus: 498 feet
Kansas City: 463 feet
Milwaukee: 460 feet
Cincinnati: 455 feet
St. Louis: 454 feet
Indianapolis: 440 feet
Buffalo: 332 feet

Source: CTBUH



KC, Milwaukee, Cincy, and St. Louis are all within 9 feet of each other on this metric!

[East72nd]

They did a fantastic job renovating this building especially the skin. Before it was just a brutalist nothing, now a true gem.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by East72nd

They did a fantastic job renovating this building especially the skin. Before it was just a brutalist nothing, now a true gem.

Yeah it's great to see it go from brutalist, outdated and in dire need of tenancy (when HSBC vacated) to full revitalization into mixed use with a warm terracotta color.

Douglas Development did the ~$100M renovation including 115 apartments, and Brooklyn's Other Half Brewing opening up a pub onsite. There's even a pickleball court inside the building with a nice view
• Video Link

M&T invested $58M into their floors for the tech hub, and another $24M in the Lafayette Court building up Main St.
• Video Link

M&T Bank is now a $200B+ regional bank, and employs around 8,000 in Western NY. They've invested about $100M in Buffalo since 2020.

[Wigs]

Double post

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

I went ahead and filled in the rest of the Midwest's significant skylines, using CTBUH data.


Average Height of 10 Tallest:

Chicago: 1,112 feet
Minneapolis: 627 feet
Pittsburgh: 614 feet
Cleveland: 562 feet
Detroit: 560 feet
Columbus: 498 feet
Kansas City: 463 feet
Milwaukee: 460 feet
Cincinnati: 455 feet
St. Louis: 454 feet
Indianapolis: 440 feet
Buffalo: 332 feet

Source: CTBUH



KC, Milwaukee, Cincy, and St. Louis are all within 9 feet of each other on this metric!

How do Rochester, Baltimore, and Philadelphia stack up on this list since we’re stretching this definition of Midwest?

I mean, Pittsburgh is way more Philly and Baltimore rustbelt than it is Minneapolis, Kansas City, and Indianapolis midwest.

[pj3000]

I'd bet Rochester is probably very close to Buffalo's average height of top 10 (and likely would be higher than Buffalo's average) if not for One Seneca.

And I would think Baltimore is somewhere near the bottom too. And Philadelphia #2 easily.

[Steely Dan]

Philly: 798 feet
Baltimore: 452 feet
Rochester: 325 feet


So, Philly handily at #2, Baltimore right in that KC, Milwaukee, Cincy, St. Louis bunch, and Rochester down with Buffalo.

[mrnyc]

sometimes you can see michigan
from avon lake (just west of cleveland) —


https://www.instagram.com/reel/C5-3i...dnbTJ4b2Nycjkw

[craigs]

Oops, sorry wrong thread