Will there ever be a major league franchise in an unusual location?

[ardecila]

It's an interesting question... Lots of things are possible. But most of the leagues have reached unwieldy size, so any further expansion might require a total re-organization into tiers along the lines of soccer in England.

We might also see a few relocations to "unusual locations" instead of expansions - stagnating cities like St Louis or Buffalo might be abandoned by their team owners if they see greener pastures in a smaller, but fast-growing, city - or untapped potential in a mega market. But, many of those teams are also owned by local bigwigs who enjoy being the big fish in a small pond. The Pegula family in Buffalo, the Benson family in New Orleans, etc.

There are also alternative options (college sports, minor league baseball, etc) to fill any excess demand for live sports in smaller markets. Alabama, for example, is crazy about football but only small pieces of the state really support the Saints or Falcons... the rest of the state just sticks with college sports, either Bama or Auburn.

[mhays]

Originally Posted by N90

Actually the RGV is the name of the McAllen and Brownsville areas, not Albuquerque and El Paso which aren't anywhere near the RGV.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rio_Grande_Valley

Roger that.

Same story there.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by ardecila

It's an interesting question... Lots of things are possible. But most of the leagues have reached unwieldy size, so any further expansion might require a total re-organization into tiers along the lines of soccer in England.

We might also see a few relocations to "unusual locations" instead of expansions - stagnating cities like St Louis or Buffalo might be abandoned by their team owners if they see greener pastures in a smaller, but fast-growing, city - or untapped potential in a mega market. But, many of those teams are also owned by local bigwigs who enjoy being the big fish in a small pond. The Pegula family in Buffalo, the Benson family in New Orleans, etc.

There are also alternative options (college sports, minor league baseball, etc) to fill any excess demand for live sports in smaller markets. Alabama, for example, is crazy about football but only small pieces of the state really support the Saints or Falcons... the rest of the state just sticks with college sports, either Bama or Auburn.

I like all you said here..I haven't a clue about Birmingham except for it being the base city for that one Christmas comedy released a few years ago (with Danny Glover), and that it's metro is similar in size to Buffalo. Having said that, you would think that NFL could work there, and the whole state would get behind that team..Even Basketball?.You are correct though, not via expansion.

[Pedestrian]

Green Bay, Wisconsin is pretty unusual.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Originally Posted by ardecila

It's an interesting question... Lots of things are possible. But most of the leagues have reached unwieldy size, so any further expansion might require a total re-organization into tiers along the lines of soccer in England.

We might also see a few relocations to "unusual locations" instead of expansions - stagnating cities like St Louis or Buffalo might be abandoned by their team owners if they see greener pastures in a smaller, but fast-growing, city - or untapped potential in a mega market. But, many of those teams are also owned by local bigwigs who enjoy being the big fish in a small pond. The Pegula family in Buffalo, the Benson family in New Orleans, etc.

There are also alternative options (college sports, minor league baseball, etc) to fill any excess demand for live sports in smaller markets. Alabama, for example, is crazy about football but only small pieces of the state really support the Saints or Falcons... the rest of the state just sticks with college sports, either Bama or Auburn.

Originally Posted by Razor

I like all you said here..I haven't a clue about Birmingham except for it being the base city for that one Christmas comedy released a few years ago (with Danny Glover), and that it's metro is similar in size to Buffalo. Having said that, you would think that NFL could work there, and the whole state would get behind that team..Even Basketball?.You are correct though, not via expansion.

BTW, difference from Buffalo, our population is growing. While many metros would be unhappy about a county being removed from it's metro, as we have, it was a county losing population rapidly. It will show a dip in our population, but in the end our growth will be higher. And with I-22 being complete within the past 5-7 years, there is ample time for that county to receive some new investment and come back home to us..

About 17.48394% of Alabama cares for the NFL. However, Birmingham does have the highest TV viewership of NBA Finals of any market without a home team.

That coupled with the complete renovation of our 17,000 seat arena... please???? Our publicly owned companies keep being bought out, but we have SO many (HUGE) privately owned companies. We have the money. I work just 3 blocks from the Birmingham Jefferson Convention Complex (which includes our, under renovation, arena - alonng with our new football stadium that is being constructed at present) and if we ever got an NBA franchise, I'd buy season tickets as soon as my pasty-white, gay ass could.

That being said, I think I'll still be buying season tickets to attend the G-League team that will be arriving here in a couple of years.

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by Razor

I like all you said here..I haven't a clue about Birmingham except for it being the base city for that one Christmas comedy released a few years ago (with Danny Glover), and that it's metro is similar in size to Buffalo. Having said that, you would think that NFL could work there, and the whole state would get behind that team..Even Basketball?.You are correct though, not via expansion.

If the Buffalo Bills are going to move anywhere, it would be 1-2 hours directly north to Canada and the huge and growing metro of Toronto, Canada. St Louis seems to be holding its own and can support the two teams (baseball and hockey). Three teams is a stretch for such a medium sized metro. If anything, some of the large cities in the south and west with three or four teams might lose one - for example, Atlanta lost its hockey team.

[SLO]

Originally Posted by Omaharocks

^Yeah, the Rio Grande Valley refers to the region in south Texas along the border, and doesn't include the cities where the Rio Grande travels through the SW.


That said, El Paso is an interesting candidate for pro sports given the combined El Paso/Juarez population.

I don't think the Rio Grande Valley has any chance of getting major league sports.

El Paso / Juarez is doubtful too. The cross border population of San Diego and Tijuana hasn't really helped either, SD has lost two of their three major sports.

[MidTenn1]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

the southern/sunbelt NHL team placement was definitely weird at the time. still seems a bit weird that Nashville has an NHL team.

In 2017, ESPN named the Nashville Predators as the best sports franchise in all of sports...

[MidTenn1]

I am surprised the 'Inland Empire' metro with a 2010 population of 4.2 million, 55 miles east of Los Angeles and consisting of Riverside, Ontario and San Bernardino does not have a major sports franchise. The MLS would work well here, I would think.

[ThePhun1]

The Inland Empire would have to higher levels of disposable income. That and they're already loyal to LA teams, often with two choices. Maybe a third LA-area team could move in a sport but I doubt they go out there, it's decentralized without a real anchor city. Minor League Baseball will have to do.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by ThePhun1

Minor League Baseball will have to do.

speaking of minor league baseball, i find it a little surprising that there are some pretty large metro areas in US/Canada that not only don't have MLB, but don't even have AAA or AA minor league baseball (particularly the first 4 on the list below):

Montreal
Vancouver
Portland
Orlando
Calgary
Edmonton
Ottawa
New Orleans
Grand Rapids


those are some pretty big population centers being passed over by higher-level minor league baseball.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by MidTenn1

I am surprised the 'Inland Empire' metro with a 2010 population of 4.2 million, 55 miles east of Los Angeles and consisting of Riverside, Ontario and San Bernardino does not have a major sports franchise. The MLS would work well here, I would think.

It's not that weird. The Inland Empire is just LA/OC ex residents looking for cheaper real estate. Its just a large region. But they're all Dodger/Laker/Kings fans etc.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by xzmattzx

The NFL gave the Packers an ultimatum to build a new stadium in the 1950s or move to Milwaukee.

They actually split games between Green Bay and County Stadium in Milwaukee before the construction of Miller Field.

It's worth noting that Wisconsin is actually a pretty diffuse state in terms of population centers and that Green Bay essentially acts as a semi centralized pilgrimage site for all those communities. Green Bay only has a population of 100k, but the Fox Valley (stretching from Green Bay to Fond Du Lac including large cities like Appleton) has a population of 500k. Milwaukee has 1.8 million and is 2 hours south, Madison has 500k and is 2 hours SW. Eau Claire and La Crosse are basically 3-4 hours straight West on the other side of the state and are each 100-250k. There's basically only forests once you get North of Green Bay.

So while Green Bay is definitely an "Odd site" there's several million inhabitants within a two hour drive.


I was actually born across the river from Lambeau in Green Bay and raised near Milwaukee. Obviously I'm a big Packers fan. Was just there for the Bears Packers game two weeks ago. Gotta tell you there's nothing like the "stadium in a neighborhood" feel while tailgating for hours before the game. For those of you who have never been, Lambeau is surrounded on three sides by quiet residential neighborhoods with streets lined by modest 70s ranch homes. People rent out their yards to tailgaters to party in and some of these yards literally directly front the parking lot for the stadium.

It's a totally unique experience and the energy is unreal.

[Steely Dan]

^ my father-in-law (a lifelong milwaukeean and die-hard packers fan), still holds his four "gold package" partial season tickets from back when the packers used to play a couple "home" games each season at milwaukee county stadium.

the "gold package" gives him tickets to one pre-season game and two regular season games each year.

apparently, thousands of milwaukeeans still hold their "gold package" season tickets. packers season tickets are a BIG deal in wisconsin and are literally handed down from one generation to the next in wills.

[mhays]

Vancouver has a good core of Toronto Blue Jays fans...they bring 15-20k per game (guessing) when Jays come here.

It's a fairly small city for MLB, and the Chinese population probably isn't that into baseball, but I agree that AAA seems appropriate. That said, big cities don't necessarily like being second fiddle.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by mhays

Vancouver has a good core of Toronto Blue Jays fans...they bring 15-20k per game (guessing) when Jays come here.

that's really interesting.

i would have guessed that the vast majority of MLB fans in vancouver would be mariners fans by default.

i mean, toronto is over 2,000 miles from vancouver, whereas seattle is only 120 miles away, but i guess that international border is a pretty big psychological deal.

Originally Posted by mhays

It's a fairly small city for MLB, and the Chinese population probably isn't that into baseball, but I agree that AAA seems appropriate. That said, big cities don't necessarily like being second fiddle.

true, that might play into it a bit, but Vancouver had AAA ball as recently as 1999, before the original Vancouver Candians franchise of the PCL moved down to sacramento and renamed themselves the River Cats.

the current Vancouver Canadians MiBL franchise is "class A short season" in the Northwest League, a pretty far cry from AAA baseball.


looking into things further, Canada used to have much higher representation for higher-level professional baseball. in addition to the MLB blue jays and expos, there were also 4 AAA teams in Canada as recently as 1999:

Vancouver Canadians (PCL) - moved to sacramento after 1999
Calgary Cannons (PCL) - moved to albuquerque after 2002
Edmonton Trappers (PCL) - moved to round rock (austin) after 2004
Ottawa Lynx (IL) - moved to allentown after 2007


so in addition to losing the MLB expos in 2005, canada also lost all 4 of its AAA teams in the same decade, leaving the entire nation with only the MLB blue jays for higher level professional baseball.

from 6 teams down to only 1, i wonder what's up with that?

[Innsertnamehere]

Baseball is a dying sport in Canada. It’s well recorded that minor league participation has been shrinking rapidly recently.

[WhipperSnapper]

Because the Blue Jays sucked in the last few years. Likewise, the dollar exchange rate sucked at the turn of the century.

[badrunner]

At least the Expos finally won the World Series

[xzmattzx]

The exchange rate is one reason why those teams left, but fan support is another. All of those teams suffered, particularly early in seasons. Do you want to sit outside for a baseball game in April with a likely chance of snow? Do you want to be a player out on the field in snow in Edmonton or Calgary or Ottawa in April or May? Do you want to be the owner of a baseball team in Edmonton or Calgary that worries every year about if you can live through the first two months of the baseball season?

There used to be even more minor league teams in Canada, but they left before the Expos. Baseball reached its peak in the late 1980s and early 1990s, and went into decline after the Blue Jays won their second title. London, Hamilton, St. Catharines, and Welland all had minor league teams for at least a year between 1988 and 1995.