Winnipeg | Forks Redevelopment | Parcel 4 - Rail Side Initiative | Proposals - Page 38

Urban recluse · #**741** Posted **Dec 6, 2017, 12:47 AM**

Yes, but I guess what I’m saying is you are imagining some bustling arena district at the Forks; why couldn’t we have this in the Shed? I suspect because it took so f’in long for the TIF program to be created...

joshlemer · #**742** Posted **Jan 22, 2018, 1:05 AM**

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but has anyone noticed that Vancouver and Winnipeg had very similar downtown waterside rail yards, which both in the 80s/90s were redeveloped. In Vancouver's case, their former rail yards became dozens of condo towers, and Winnipeg's became the forks

Vancouver Before
http://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/u...cd6-A46278.jpg

Vancouver After https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.26605.../data=!3m1!1e3

Winnipeg Before:
http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/99...predevwide.jpg
Winnipeg After:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.88117.../data=!3m1!1e3

Which city do you think made out better? I thought it was weird that they are so similar in shape and size, proximity to downtown, and period of redevelopment.

On one hand, Yaletown is much more lively and livable (if you have lots of money) than the Forks area is (can you even talk about the livability of an area that has 0 residential units?). And Yaletown surely brings in much more tax revenue than the Forks does. But on the other hand, Winnipeg's Forks area is very successful in my opinion at being a great community gathering place, and there's really something for almost everyone there. You can spend a day at the Forks, but would you spend a day walking through the Yaletown condos? No thanks..

Urban recluse · #**743** Posted **Jan 22, 2018, 1:19 AM**

You really cannot compare the two.

joshlemer · #**744** Posted **Jan 22, 2018, 1:23 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

You really cannot compare the two.

Why not?

cheswick · #**745** Posted **Jan 22, 2018, 3:29 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshlemer

Why not?

Vancouver CMA has 2.5mm people.
Winnipeg CMA has 750k.

Vancouver density is 855 per square km.
Winnipeg density is 138 per square km

joshlemer · #**746** Posted **Jan 22, 2018, 3:41 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheswick

Vancouver CMA has 2.5mm people.
Winnipeg CMA has 750k.

Vancouver density is 855 per square km.
Winnipeg density is 138 per square km

Okay so the cities differ in size by a factor of 4, that's one difference, but like I pointed out there's lots of similarities between the projects. If you're going to claim we can't learn anything from, or compare ourselves to other cities unless they resemble us in every way including size, that pretty much just leaves Hamilton Ontario and Quebec City.

Authentic_City · #**747** Posted **Jan 22, 2018, 10:31 AM**

^Wouldn't a better comparison be Granville Island to the Forks? Both were industrial sites, and both were developed as public gathering spaces with produce/food markets, hotels, shops, restaurants, etc. The development of Yaletown had a completely different objective. Even setting aside the size of the two urban areas, I don't think the comparison is quite right between Yaletown and the Forks.

The Unknown Poster · #**748** Posted **Jan 22, 2018, 3:15 PM**

I was at the Forks on friday (side note, took my niece to see the Winter Castle and was disappointed that on the warmest day of the year, they didn't open until 4PM - a bunch of us were standing around staring at the closed sign at 2pm).

But...very likely, lots of people enjoying the area and the Market was very busy. Once they get some residential development in there, its going to be insane.

Also, please do something about the main stage. Looks depressing.

optimusREIM · #**749** Posted **Jan 22, 2018, 3:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Authentic_City

^Wouldn't a better comparison be Granville Island to the Forks? Both were industrial sites, and both were developed as public gathering spaces with produce/food markets, hotels, shops, restaurants, etc. The development of Yaletown had a completely different objective. Even setting aside the size of the two urban areas, I don't think the comparison is quite right between Yaletown and the Forks.

Too bad the actual market part is kinda a joke. Hopefully the demand induced by the development of railside will help to bring actual food markets to the forks

tree · #**750** Posted **Jan 22, 2018, 11:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshlemer

Which city do you think made out better? I thought it was weird that they are so similar in shape and size, proximity to downtown, and period of redevelopment.

As others have pointed out, its not fair to do a direct comparison. However it is possible to discuss it just in general terms.

I think that with explosion of nearly identical high rise condos in Vancouver they may regret or at least not be enthused about more of them in that area. Its not really needed and in my opinion, in hindsight, it would have benefitted from more, shorter builds (since you can put high rise condos almost anywhere and 'make' nice views, it would seem nice to have a gradual decrease in average height as it approaches the shore).

I don't really think Forks should go the high rise route - I really love the idea they have for the lots of small and unique builds from 2-5 stories like we've seen in renderings etc. I think for the Forks its better.

I think Vancouver's if done today would be more reminiscent of the Forks design - so in that case The Forks will be 'better' in just that one aspect, but Vancouver's has been likely lively and generating income and bringing people closer to the core for 2 decades now and as such its better. But its not necessarily all Winnipeg's fault either.

tl;dr - Winnipeg's will probably look better, but until it gets people living there its not even close to what Vancouver has. Not even remotely close. (But we shouldn't expect it to be yet either)

Authentic_City · #**751** Posted **Jan 23, 2018, 1:40 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

Too bad the actual market part is kinda a joke. Hopefully the demand induced by the development of railside will help to bring actual food markets to the forks

True enough. The Granville Island food market is far superior. It's a place where you could actually do your regular food shopping. The Forks, not so much. Overall, I think the Forks has been successful in a lot of ways, but without residential integrated in the site, there's not much incentive for quality food market merchants. I think this is the main reason for Granville Island's success. There's a ton of housing surrounding False Creek.

GlassCity · #**752** Posted **Jan 23, 2018, 2:49 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Authentic_City

^Wouldn't a better comparison be Granville Island to the Forks? Both were industrial sites, and both were developed as public gathering spaces with produce/food markets, hotels, shops, restaurants, etc. The development of Yaletown had a completely different objective. Even setting aside the size of the two urban areas, I don't think the comparison is quite right between Yaletown and the Forks.

First time I visited the Forks first place in Vancouver I thought of was Granville Island. Total equivalent.

Tacheguy · #**753** Posted **Jan 23, 2018, 3:53 AM**

Granville Island has a very good market, but overall the place doesn't impress me. The Forks is magic imo.

GlassCity · #**754** Posted **Jan 23, 2018, 4:01 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tacheguy

Granville Island has a very good market, but overall the place doesn't impress me. The Forks is magic imo.

I think Granville Island is incredibly overrated, but I'll admit I was a little underwhelmed by the Forks when I first saw it, mainly because I didn't actually go inside the market, because I didn't realize that was the point. I assumed the Forks was the big park which was nice and all, but pretty empty.

Totally changed my mind since the winter hit though. The market inside is probably the busiest place in Winnipeg, though I wish it was more affordable. The skating trails are something to truly be proud of. Should be included in any promotional material ever. I light up like a kid every time I go out there.

Authentic_City · #**755** Posted **Jan 23, 2018, 5:38 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tacheguy

Granville Island has a very good market, but overall the place doesn't impress me. The Forks is magic imo.

We had friends out from Vancouver, and that was their assessment too. Granville Island is nice and a great place to shop for fresh seafood and such, but the Forks has a lot more going on. I do think adding some housing would push it over the top, as long as it's done right. I would like to see a better food market in the Forks. No waterslides and CanAlta hotels please.

wags_in_the_peg · #**756** Posted **Jan 23, 2018, 2:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Authentic_City

No waterslides and CanAlta hotels please.

i think we know that won't be happening, no longer to beat a dead horse!

What I'm hoping for is some housing that can accommodate families with late teens (3 bedrooms, 2 baths, central game rooms?). we don't all want to live in suburbs. I'd love to move my family there. kids would be near so much and hopefully easy access for transit to university

rrskylar · #**757** Posted **Jan 23, 2018, 5:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tacheguy

Granville Island has a very good market, but overall the place doesn't impress me. The Forks is magic imo.

Was at Granville back in September during their Fringe, really packed, kinda disorganized, place felt almost claustrophobic, pedestrians mixed in with vehicle traffic, cars parking in a haphazard way, really a mess!

Pretty tough to compare the beautiful brick buildings at the Forks to the steel clad shantys that is Granville.

Wolf13 · #**758** Posted **Jan 23, 2018, 5:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshlemer

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but has anyone noticed that Vancouver and Winnipeg had very similar downtown waterside rail yards, which both in the 80s/90s were redeveloped. In Vancouver's case, their former rail yards became dozens of condo towers, and Winnipeg's became the forks

Vancouver Before
http://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/u...cd6-A46278.jpg

Vancouver After https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.26605.../data=!3m1!1e3

Winnipeg Before:
http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/99...predevwide.jpg
Winnipeg After:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.88117.../data=!3m1!1e3

Which city do you think made out better? I thought it was weird that they are so similar in shape and size, proximity to downtown, and period of redevelopment.

On one hand, Yaletown is much more lively and livable (if you have lots of money) than the Forks area is (can you even talk about the livability of an area that has 0 residential units?). And Yaletown surely brings in much more tax revenue than the Forks does. But on the other hand, Winnipeg's Forks area is very successful in my opinion at being a great community gathering place, and there's really something for almost everyone there. You can spend a day at the Forks, but would you spend a day walking through the Yaletown condos? No thanks..

Yaletown is awesome. So is the forks.

Their origins are comparable, but final products, not so much. I spend a fair amount of time in Yaletown whenever I get the chance, and would easily pick it over the forks. But the forsk is still really amazing, but more family oriented. If my kids are with me, Forks for sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Authentic_City

^Wouldn't a better comparison be Granville Island to the Forks? Both were industrial sites, and both were developed as public gathering spaces with produce/food markets, hotels, shops, restaurants, etc. The development of Yaletown had a completely different objective. Even setting aside the size of the two urban areas, I don't think the comparison is quite right between Yaletown and the Forks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Was at Granville back in September during their Fringe, really packed, kinda disorganized, place felt almost claustrophobic, pedestrians mixed in with vehicle traffic, cars parking in a haphazard way, really a mess!

Pretty tough to compare the beautiful brick buildings at the Forks to the steel clad shantys that is Granville.

Granville is a little more shmooshed together but I still like it. Not as well designed as the Forks, but BUSY, and that's necessary.

But then again I've been to the forks probably 3 times in the last 1-2 weeks and it's been completely packed... especially late on weekends. This is a huge achievement for the forks, to become a place where 20-40 year olds want to be at night.

TimeFadesAway · #**759** Posted **Jan 24, 2018, 4:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolf13

But then again I've been to the forks probably 3 times in the last 1-2 weeks and it's been completely packed... especially late on weekends. This is a huge achievement for the forks, to become a place where 20-40 year olds want to be at night.

I was at the Forks last night and it was packed with a whole variety of people. Who would have thought 10 or so years ago that on a random Tuesday night in January that the Forks would be so busy?

Tacheguy · #**760** Posted **Jan 24, 2018, 4:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimeFadesAway

I was at the Forks last night and it was packed with a whole variety of people. Who would have thought 10 or so years ago that on a random Tuesday night in January that the Forks would be so busy?

As car access becomes more difficult at the Forks I think you are going to see properties near the site developed as residential buildings. The secret is getting out that living within walking distance of the Forks has become a huge year-round benefit when living in Winnipeg. I am very optimistic about south main st. For example.