Metro Phoenix Transit/Transportation Developments

[biggus diggus]

Bill Luke is one of the highest grossing dealerships in the country, they've got deep enough pockets to fund whatever they want.

[DesertRay]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

Bill Luke is one of the highest grossing dealerships in the country, they've got deep enough pockets to fund whatever they want.

For now. As the Pirate who faced forty remarked: "I made enough money to buy Miami, but I pissed it away so fast." Bill Luke made his money while others were defending other disappearing ways of life. If he wants his descendants not to regret his choices, he'd better start making better bets on the future. Hint: it ain't buying politicians pleading to stop the transition away from his gazzmobiles.

BTW, I know Bill is a "they" now, but I still blame Bill. Always blame Bill.

[TakeFive]

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2019/03/...ransit-amtrak/

The White House has targeted a program called “Capital Improvement Grants,” which provides a federal match for major new transit projects, like Phoenix’s South Central Light Rail or Indianapolis’s Red Line bus rapid transit. Trump’s 2020 budget would cut the program from $2.5 billion to $1.5 billion.

This is much ado about nothing since:

It is the duty of the President to propose and it is the privilege of the Congress to dispose.
Franklin D. Roosevelt
https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/f...osevelt_396937

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2019/03/...ransit-amtrak/

This is much ado about nothing since:

I think much adu about nothing can be used to sum up the last 10-15 years of federal level poltiics.

it appears most of our population doesnt have a clue how the sausage is made yet likes to pontificate on it.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Obadno

I think much adu about nothing can be used to sum up the last 10-15 years of federal level poltiics.

it appears most of our population doesnt have a clue how the sausage is made yet likes to pontificate on it.

I recently read where a poll showed that 40% (of us who hang out in the middle) think the country needs a Third Party.

[Classical in Phoenix]

https://www.localfirstaz.com/events/...mplete-streets

Some transit people may be interested in this.

[Phxguy]

The West Phoenix extension was killed today at city hall. Thank your neighborly automotive puppet master and short-sighted council members for today’s regression.

[DesertRay]

Originally Posted by Phxguy

The West Phoenix extension was killed today at city hall. Thank your neighborly automotive puppet master and short-sighted council members for today’s regression.

Electrification will kill their industry. Thank God. When they are gone, we can bring this up again. Idiots. I just feel sorry for the West Side, who will continue to slide into mediocrity while downtown, and anyone else on the current light rail line will continue to improve. At least I'll be able to drive by their declining area without hitting as many potholes, I guess.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by DesertRay

Electrification will kill their industry. Thank God. When they are gone, we can bring this up again. Idiots. I just feel sorry for the West Side, who will continue to slide into mediocrity while downtown, and anyone else on the current light rail line will continue to improve. At least I'll be able to drive by their declining area without hitting as many potholes, I guess.

I don't understand how this is being done when this was part of 104 which was voter approved? It seems like they couldn't just kill projects like this without taking it to the voters first?

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by Phxguy

The West Phoenix extension was killed today at city hall. Thank your neighborly automotive puppet master and short-sighted council members for today’s regression.

What was the west extension? Down to the Capitol? Out to Maryvale?

[xymox]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

I don't understand how this is being done when this was part of 104 which was voter approved? It seems like they couldn't just kill projects like this without taking it to the voters first?

So - the extension is not ‘killed’ - its ‘delayed’. You could argue it means the same thing, but from what I’ve read, city council decided to put the money towards the 1.5B they need to improve city roads.

I know its not a popular opinion on this board, but I agree with this. City of Phoenix is one of the worst cities in the valley in terms of keeping its roads repaired and updated. It feels like they went over 10 years w/o doing so - its taken them forever to repair Cave Creek Rd. The roads instantly improve when crossing from PHX -> Glendale or PHX -> Scottsdale 10x. Most of us drive cars - much fewer of us use the light rail. So I totally get the logic behind it.

Sure some of it appeared to be reaction to Bill Luke and others, but a delay like this doesn’t kill the project or light rail in the region moving forward. To satisfy Bill Luke - they just need to adjust the route/design to not use as much of his property, etc.

Let them finish the rail to Metro Center - then maybe update plans and return to this line.

Let’s see if the new mayor can wrangle city council towards a vision of growth downtown like Stanton did.

[DesertRay]

Originally Posted by xymox

So - the extension is not ‘killed’ - its ‘delayed’. You could argue it means the same thing, but from what I’ve read, city council decided to put the money towards the 1.5B they need to improve city roads.

I know its not a popular opinion on this board, but I agree with this. City of Phoenix is one of the worst cities in the valley in terms of keeping its roads repaired and updated. It feels like they went over 10 years w/o doing so - its taken them forever to repair Cave Creek Rd. The roads instantly improve when crossing from PHX -> Glendale or PHX -> Scottsdale 10x. Most of us drive cars - much fewer of us use the light rail. So I totally get the logic behind it.

Let them finish the rail to Metro Center - then maybe update plans and return to this line.

I agree with the sentiment of being optimistic about getting this done in the long-term, but I think that this does two terrible things:

1. This shows that the people with the power don't have to follow the will of the people who voted on this MULTIPLE TIMES by convincing five or so people to go along with this, so destruction of whatever they want is inevitable by corruption. Note how people on the West side were screwed by being called "nowhere" in this travesty, and
2. Bypasses asking people if we WANT to pay for roads. Put it up for a vote. Not instead of rail, but in addition to. I'm guessing we would vote for this overwhelmingly, and this would foster faith in government. Ask us what we want, and then give it to us.

Almost everyone I know wants better roads, and doesn't necessarily want this as an either/or proposition. Only car dealerships and gas companies want that to happen. I'm sick of that kind of pitting us against each other.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by DesertRay

I agree with the sentiment of being optimistic about getting this done in the long-term, but I think that this does two terrible things:

1. This shows that the people with the power don't have to follow the will of the people who voted on this MULTIPLE TIMES by convincing five or so people to go along with this, so destruction of whatever they want is inevitable by corruption. Note how people on the West side were screwed by being called "nowhere" in this travesty, and
2. Bypasses asking people if we WANT to pay for roads. Put it up for a vote. Not instead of rail, but in addition to. I'm guessing we would vote for this overwhelmingly, and this would foster faith in government. Ask us what we want, and then give it to us.

Welcome to representative government.

[DesertRay]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Welcome to representative government.

Yeah, but it doesn't have to be this way. My favorite brief conversation is always:

Joe Cynic: "It's not a Democracy. It's a REPUBLIC!"

Me: "Republic is just a word that means 'representative democracy,' so it is both a democracy and a Republic. It's not a direct democracy, but that doesn't mean it's not a democracy."

I actually am not entirely sure that what just happened is within their rights. If this goes to the courts, it might be invalidated on the grounds that we voted for something different. Sort of doubt that will happen, but who knows?

[ASU Diablo]

Originally Posted by DesertRay

Electrification will kill their industry. Thank God. When they are gone, we can bring this up again. Idiots. I just feel sorry for the West Side, who will continue to slide into mediocrity while downtown, and anyone else on the current light rail line will continue to improve. At least I'll be able to drive by their declining area without hitting as many potholes, I guess.

I don’t think electrification will kill the car dealership model since many of these brands are now catching up and developing some type of electric car. But moreso, the Tesla sales model they have deployed where they’ve 100% effectively demonstrated you don’t need a lot full of them to sell. But rather small showrooms sprinkled throughout and order your car online. I loved the experience when I first purchased my Model 3

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by DesertRay

Yeah, but it doesn't have to be this way. My favorite brief conversation is always:

Joe Cynic: "It's not a Democracy. It's a REPUBLIC!"

Me: "Republic is just a word that means 'representative democracy,' so it is both a democracy and a Republic. It's not a direct democracy, but that doesn't mean it's not a democracy."

I actually am not entirely sure that what just happened is within their rights. If this goes to the courts, it might be invalidated on the grounds that we voted for something different. Sort of doubt that will happen, but who knows?

They are doing their job, the voters did have a say, but....the council has determined the situation has change. (and it has)

Now the answer would be to get some turnover in he council to members that are more in favor of transity etc.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by ASU Diablo

I don’t think electrification will kill the car dealership model since many of these brands are now catching up and developing some type of electric car. But moreso, the Tesla sales model they have deployed where they’ve 100% effectively demonstrated you don’t need a lot full of them to sell. But rather small showrooms sprinkled throughout and order your car online. I loved the experience when I first purchased my Model 3

Most economists agree that it will be around 2040 before electric vehicles match or surpass the amount of gas powered cars on the road...give or take depending battery technology and the costs of a new electric car by then. So, car lots are not going anywhere anytime soon and the majority of car lots are used car lots which don't have the finances to follow the Tesla model, so they will still keep their big blacktop lots for the time being.

[DesertRay]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

Most economists agree that it will be around 2040 before electric vehicles match or surpass the amount of gas powered cars on the road...give or take depending battery technology and the costs of a new electric car by then. So, car lots are not going anywhere anytime soon and the majority of car lots are used car lots which don't have the finances to follow the Tesla model, so they will still keep their big blacktop lots for the time being.

The economists have been shifting their models rapidly, and I expect that kind of change in thinking to accelerate. It took Tesla ten years to sell a half-million electric cars, and they will sell a half million this year. I expect that kind of exponential growth to continue for the brands that electrified early. Hint: it's Tesla, and a handful of European brands. GM, Chrysler, and Ford won't know what hit them. I agree that the dealerships will exist as both secondary used markets, and likely shift to whatever helps with the electric car market (might be a combination of service, maintenance, charging, etc.). What they WON'T be doing as much of is wielding the same kind of good old boy power as before. I expect that electric utilities may get even stronger, and will be more in league with RE power producers and media outlets (outlets? power?), but this is all speculative. I think that parking lots swarming with Glengarry Glenn Ross "Always Be Closing" flunkies will become much less abundant by about 2025.

[CrestedSaguaro]

I am bookmarking this discussion so in about 2030, we can go back and reflect on what's happened since 2019

[DesertRay]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

I am bookmarking this discussion so in about 2030, we can go back and reflect on what's happened since 2019

.

11 years is an eternity.

From 2009: https://money.cnn.com/2009/08/07/tec...ostversion=200

"Tesla Motors turned profitable for the first time in July, when the electric car manufacturer shipped a record 109 vehicles, the company said Friday.

A surge in sales and reduced manufacturing costs of Tesla's Roadster 2 sports car helped boost the company to $1 million in earnings and $20 million in revenue.

"There is strong demand for a car that is unique in offering high performance with a clean conscience," said Tesla Chief Executive Elon Musk, in a prepared statement. "Customers know that in buying the Roadster they are helping fund development of our mass market electric cars."

The Roadster has a range of about 244 miles per charge -- the first production electric vehicle to cross the 200-mile mark, according to the press release.

The Roadster is the only highway-capable electric vehicle for sale in North America or Europe, and the company says it is faster than a Porsche and twice as energy-efficient as a Toyota Prius."

Meanwhile, Tesla is setting up factory number three in China, Volkswagen is building their battery factories, Chinese companies are cranking out electric cars, buses, motorcycles, and even Harley Davidson is cranking out Electric Hogs. Buckle up--these things accelerate like rockets.