Amazon HQ2 thread

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by isaidso

No, but we Canadians are very amused by the persistent and common view of Americans that this thing couldn't possibly go to a city outside the US.

I'm more amused by the fact that anyone thinks this thing is going anyplace, and isn't a giant dog-and-pony show to extract more benefits out of Seattle, while getting megabillions for secondary operations which were going to happen anyway.

Amazon has been signing huge leases for office space nationwide long before this "competition". I would bet that this entire charade is basically an extension of current policy, packaged as something much greater.

[Kenmore]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I'm more amused by the fact that anyone thinks this thing is going anyplace, and isn't a giant dog-and-pony show to extract more benefits out of Seattle, while getting megabillions for secondary operations which were going to happen anyway.

Amazon has been signing huge leases for office space nationwide long before this "competition". I would bet that this entire charade is basically an extension of current policy, packaged as something much greater.

yup

[DMPHL]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

The poster I responded to specifically asked what advantage does Atlanta have over Dallas. That's one of them.

Got it, but you did say the following (bolding mine):

"the city has better airport access via. transit than Dallas (which is what Amazon listed as a preference)."

The bolded part is what I was responding to, because it is untrue. And it's just one of many times people on this forum have put forth transit access to the airport as if it is included in the RFP.

[Don't Be That Guy]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

RE: Pittsburgh & Detroit.

They're formidable dark horses, but they don't meet all of the requirements to make the short list on paper.

Pittsburgh's airport doesn't have direct flights to San Francisco. Also, Detroit has virtually no mass transit. The only rust belt city that checks all of the boxes is Chicago.

RE: Charlotte

Again, a formidable dark horse, but also doesn't check all of the boxes.

It has the worst transit of all major cities ("major" being cities of 2+ million) in the Southern Plains and SE region, outside of San Antonio and Raleigh.

Also, it doesn't have nearly as large of a tech labor pool as cities such as Dallas or Atlanta (Raleigh? Maybe, but not Charlotte).

I'm not going to comment on Pittsburgh's chances of landing HQ2, but there is a daily direct flight to SFO. Daily non-stop service to Seattle begins next year.

[C.]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I'm more amused by the fact that anyone thinks this thing is going anyplace, and isn't a giant dog-and-pony show to extract more benefits out of Seattle, while getting megabillions for secondary operations which were going to happen anyway.

Amazon has been signing huge leases for office space nationwide long before this "competition". I would bet that this entire charade is basically an extension of current policy, packaged as something much greater.

The thought crossed my mind. RFP/RFQs in the public sector have stringent rules that must be followed. Amazon can do whatever it wants as a private company and doesn't have to follow through on anything mentioned in it's "RFP." There isn't a protest procedure for respondents to challenge a decision by Amazon. It may very well be for the publicity.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by Don't Be That Guy

I'm not going to comment on Pittsburgh's chances of landing HQ2, but there is a daily direct flight to SFO. Daily non-stop service to Seattle begins next year.

I stand corrected.

With the direct flight to Seattle coming, I guess Pittsburgh will in fact check all of the boxes.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

RE: Pittsburgh & Detroit.

They're formidable dark horses, but they don't meet all of the requirements to make the short list on paper.

Pittsburgh's airport doesn't have direct flights to San Francisco. Also, Detroit has virtually no mass transit. The only rust belt city that checks all of the boxes is Chicago.

RE: Charlotte

Again, a formidable dark horse, but also doesn't check all of the boxes.

It has the worst transit of all major cities ("major" being cities of 2+ million) in the Southern Plains and SE region, outside of San Antonio and Raleigh.

Also, it doesn't have nearly as large of a tech labor pool as cities such as Dallas or Atlanta (Raleigh? Maybe, but not Charlotte).

The RFP did not say that a rail based transit system is required. Amazon said that the site needs access to mass transit described as "Direct access to rail, train, subway/metro, bus routes."

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by glowrock

You've obviously never heard of the well-known fact that Texas has skillfully hidden a massive long-term debt and current deficit deep within its financials. Texas is not much better off than many other states, especially in the long run.

Aaron (Glowrock)

While a large chunk of Texas' debt is unfunded, it also makes up a small share of the state's personal income compared to places such as Illinois, Connecticut, New Jersey, etc.

So it's not as bad as it seems on paper in Texas.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

The RFP did not say that a rail based transit system is required. Amazon said that the site needs access to mass transit described as "Direct access to rail, train, subway/metro, bus routes."

I don't think the long wait times for a bus on DDOT and SMART is the type of transit Amazon's looking for.

If they choose Detroit, it would be im spite of its non-functioning transit system.

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by chicubs111

^^^^ How can you not consider Chicago the top front runner for the rust belt cities????... The reality is Chicago has produced the best development options for Amazon... The proposals itself should be what is considered the dividing factor when comparing to other cities and outside of the one Philadelphia site Schukel yards i believe its called? there is no other cities produces the same quality proposals like Chicago has

Can we stop using the term rust belt to describe the entirety of the Midwest? Especially people from the Midwest. There are parts of the Midwest that have declined significantly and there are parts that have kept pace with the global economy. It's a very mixed bag, like anywhere. You'll find "rust belt" cities in the heart of the "sun belt". The term rust belt perpetuates an image of decline and despair, and that's far from the case. Even poster-child rust belt city Detroit is seeing the beginning of revival in its core. What's wrong with saying the Midwest?


In other news:

https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/am...-side-chicago/

I'd be SHOCKED if Amazon ended up at the old Finkl site. There are opportunities for improvement to transportation and Sterling Bay is a hell of a developer, but it'd be a big undertaking. That said, Amazon would be a great company to kick off the redevelopment. Would certainly totally change the face of the Clybourn Corridor and north branch of the Chicago River.

For a city without a ton going for it topographically/geographically, the features Chicago does have are well highlighted and the projects along the north branch and expanding river walks and trails is very exciting!

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

I don't think the long wait times for a bus on DDOT and SMART is the type of transit Amazon's looking for.

If they choose Detroit, it would be im spite of its non-functioning transit system.

The point is we're all reading tea leaves here but we should keep in mind what actually is and isn't on the RFP. We're making guesses as to what we think Amazon values most. But every large city in the country can check every quantitative point that they put in the RFP.

[10023]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

I stand corrected.

With the direct flight to Seattle coming, I guess Pittsburgh will in fact check all of the boxes.

Is this really a concern? Wouldn’t the main airline(s) at whatever city’s airport announce that they were creating a daily flight about 3 hours after Amazon announced that city had been chosen, if one didn’t exist?

The daily flight to Seattle box is really “does the local airport have a long enough runway to land a plane that can reach Seattle?”.

[JManc]

It's all about the Vegas odds..

[jd3189]

Why couldn't they have a bunch of regional headquarters in worthy cities in each part of the country and in. Canada and Mexico? For example, they already have something going on in Chattanooga along with Volkswagen. Chicago or Detroit would be the Midwest hq and Philadelphia could be the NE one if NY and Boston are too expensive

But if they do think of a Southeastern city that can be viable, it's Atlanta and Miami. I don't know much about Charlotte, Raleigh, Nashville, or some of the others aside from research tech. Atlanta has the airport and enough of the land, transit, and talent to hold down Amazon. Plus it has a very central location in the South aside from the Texas cities. Miami also has land and talent across Dade county and South Florida and 3 international airports. The mass transit is not as expansive as Atlanta's, but Miami has a significantly denser layout for being mostly suburban. Similar to LA in that respect. Plus Amazon( if they haven't already) could open up a Latin American headquarters there to expand their influence. Somewhere in Mexico is good as well if they wanted to go in that direction.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

The point is we're all reading tea leaves here but we should keep in mind what actually is and isn't on the RFP. We're making guesses as to what we think Amazon values most. But every large city in the country can check every quantitative point that they put in the RFP.

Amazon was pretty clear in their requirements. They want a city with a functioning transit system at least similar to Seattle, since a large share of their employees there use it.

Now is it possible they will forego that requirement based on other variables? Surw. But I wouldn't assume it's anything more than a long shot at best.

[C.]

Originally Posted by JManc

It's all about the Vegas odds..

Ha! If I were a betting man, I would jump on Chicago and Philly. 12:1 is amazing odds.

How would one bet against Atlanta, hypothetically speaking. lol

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

The point is we're all reading tea leaves here but we should keep in mind what actually is and isn't on the RFP. We're making guesses as to what we think Amazon values most. But every large city in the country can check every quantitative point that they put in the RFP.

Amazon was pretty clear in their requirements. They want a city with a functioning transit system at least similar to Seattle, since a large share of their employees there use it.

Now is it possible they will forego that requirement based on other variables? Surw. But I wouldn't assume it's anything more than a long shot at best.

[10023]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

The RFP did not say that a rail based transit system is required. Amazon said that the site needs access to mass transit described as "Direct access to rail, train, subway/metro, bus routes."

As you say in a later post, we’re all trying to ascertain intent here.

If one of a very brief list of requirements is access to “transit” as described above, then clearly it’s important to them. And while that language means that some suburban bus routes (which never, ever work for commuting) “check the box” technically, I can’t imagine that they are indifferent to whether there are only buses, or a good commuter rail and subway network.

[10023]

Originally Posted by JManc

It's all about the Vegas odds..

Rochester NY? Seriously?

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by 10023

Is this really a concern? Wouldn’t the main airline(s) at whatever city’s airport announce that they were creating a daily flight about 3 hours after Amazon announced that city had been chosen, if one didn’t exist?

The daily flight to Seattle box is really “does the local airport have a long enough runway to land a plane that can reach Seattle?”.

No.

And even if they did, why should Amazon choose that city over the city that already has the connectivity in place?