Power Shift: Cities

[simms3_redux]

FL has always been an interesting struggle. Jax was the big city of FL for a long time, and it wasn't until the middle of the 20th century when Jacksonville began to decline, relatively, and the Central and Southern portions of the state really exploded with transplants and immigrants.

Jacksonville's decline can be traced to 1948 when the first of a series of corrupt mayors took over and racism and bigotry ruled what was once one of the most liberal, high growth, and diverse cities in the country at that time. 1948 is the first year tolls were introduced on bridges leading into downtown. The 50s saw the paving over of the riverfront. The 60s and 70s saw large scale destruction of downtown. The city has not recovered since.

By county:

1830
Duval (Jax) 1,970
Escambia (Pensacola) 0
Hillsborough (Tampa) 0
Orange (Orlando) 0
Miami-Dade 0

1840
Duval (Jax) 4,156
Escambia (Pensacola) 3,933
Hillsborough (Tampa) 452
Miami-Dade 446
Orange (Orlando) 73

1850
Duval (Jax) 4,539
Escambia (Pensacola) 4,351
Hillsborough (Tampa) 2,377
Orange (Orlando) 466
Miami-Dade 159

1860
Escambia (Pensacola) 5,768
Duval (Jax) 5,074
Hillsborough (Tampa) 2,981
Orange (Orlando) 987
Miami-Dade 83

1870
Duval (Jax) 11,921
Escambia (Pensacola) 7,817
Hillsborough (Tampa) 3,216
Orange (Orlando) 2,195
Miami-Dade 85

1880
Duval (Jax) 19,431
Escambia (Pensacola) 12,156
Orange (Orlando) 6,618
Hillsborough (Tampa) 5,814
Miami-Dade 257

1890
Duval (Jax) 26,800
Escambia (Pensacola) 20,188
Hillsborough (Tampa) 14,941
Orange (Orlando) 12,584
Miami-Dade 861

1900
Duval (Jax) 39,733
Hillsborough (Tampa) 36,013
Escambia (Pensacola) 28,313
Orange (Orlando) 11,374
Miami-Dade 4,955

1910
Hillsborough (Tampa) 78,374
Duval (Jax) 75,163
Escambia (Pensacola) 38,029
Orange (Orlando) 19,107
Miami-Dade 11,933

1920
Duval (Jax) 113,540
Hillsborough (Tampa) 88,257
Escambia (Pensacola) 49,386
Miami-Dade 42,753
Orange (Orlando) 19,890

1930
Duval (Jax) 155,503
Hillsborough (Tampa) 153,519
Miami-Dade 142,955
Escambia (Pensacola) 53,394
Orange (Orlando) 49,737

1940
Miami-Dade 267,739
Duval (Jax) 210,143
Hillsborough (Tampa) 180,148
Escambia (Pensacola) 74,667
Orange (Orlando) 70,074

1950
Miami-Dade 495,084
Duval (Jax) 304,029
Hillsborough (Tampa) 249,894
Orange (Orlando) 114,950
Escambia (Pensacola) 112,706

1960
Miami-Dade 935,047
Duval (Jax) 455,411
Hillsborough (Tampa) 397,788
Orange (Orlando) 263,540
Escambia (Pensacola) 173,829

1970
Miami-Dade 1,267,792
Duval (Jax) 528,865
Hillsborough (Tampa) 490,265
Orange (Orlando) 344,311
Escambia (Pensacola) 205,334

1980
Miami-Dade 1,625,781
Hillsborough (Tampa) 646,960
Duval (Jax) 571,003
Orange (Orlando) 471,076
Escambia (Pensacola) 233,794

1990
Miami-Dade 1,937,094
Hillsborough (Tampa) 834,054
Orange (Orlando) 677,491
Duval (Jax) 672,971
Escambia (Pensacola) 262,798

2000
Miami-Dade 2,253,362
Hillsborough (Tampa) 998,848
Orange (Orlando) 896,344
Duval (Jax) 778,879
Escambia (Pensacola) 294,410

2010
Miami-Dade 2,496,435
Hillsborough (Tampa) 1,229,226
Orange (Orlando) 1,145,956
Duval (Jax) 864,263
Escambia (Pensacola) 297,619



By Current Metro boundaries:

1830
Jacksonville 1,970
Pensacola 0
Tampa 0
Orlando 0
South Florida 0

1840
Jacksonville 8,742
Pensacola 3,933
Tampa 452
South Florida 446
Orlando 73

1850
Jacksonville 9,228
Pensacola 7,234
Tampa 3,303
Orlando 466
South Florida 159

1860
Jacksonville 13,670
Pensacola 11,248
Tampa 4,181
Orlando 987
South Florida 83

1870
Jacksonville 22,209
Pensacola 11,129
Tampa 6,154
Orlando 2,195
South Florida 85

1880
Jacksonville 35,742
Pensacola 18,801
Tampa 10,062
Orlando 6,618
South Florida 257

1890
Jacksonville 52,293
Pensacola 28,149
Orlando 23,751
Tampa 21,666
South Florida 861

1900
Jacksonville 68,703
Tampa 45,705
Pensacola 38,606
Orlando 22,285
South Florida 4,955

1910
Jacksonville 109,817
Tampa 90,873
Pensacola 52,926
Orlando 34,123
South Florida 17,510

1920
Jacksonville 149,184
Tampa 129,872
South Florida 66,542
Pensacola 63,056
Orlando 50,815

1930
Tampa 231,190
South Florida 214,830
Jacksonville 196,686
Orlando 102,332
Pensacola 67,477

1940
South Florida 387,522
Tampa 291,629
Jacksonville 253,959
Orlando 129,752
Pensacola 90,752

1950
South Florida 693,705
Tampa 436,365
Jacksonville 362,474
Orlando 189,579
Pensacola 131,260

1960
South Florida 1,497,099
Tampa 820,443
Jacksonville 529,532
Orlando 394,899
Pensacola 203,376

1970
South Florida 2,236,645
Tampa 1,105,553
Jacksonville 621,519
Orlando 522,575
Pensacola 243,075

1980
South Florida 3,220,844
Tampa 1,613,603
Orlando 804,985
Jacksonville 737,541
Pensacola 289,782

1990
South Florida 4,056,100
Tampa 2,067,959
Orlando 1,224,852
Jacksonville 925,213
Pensacola 344,406

2000
South Florida 5,007,564
Tampa 2,395,897
Orlando 1,644,561
Jacksonville 1,122,750
Pensacola 412,153

2010
South Florida 5,564,635
Tampa 2,783,243
Orlando 2,134,411
Jacksonville 1,345,596
Pensacola 448,991

[Xelebes]

Originally Posted by Allan83

Wow. I never even mentioned Alberta. Your obsession and insecurities about Alberta have apparently started to affect your mind. I’ve reported you for trolling, btw. I wonder how many times you've been reported for trolling about Alberta? Maybe this time they’ll do us all a favour and ban you for good.

Allan, stop testing our patience here.

[Razor]

I find the shift of power in Ohio's cities interesting..Just out of curiosity, has Pittsburgh and Philadelphia ever battled it out?..How about Rochester and Buffalo in New York State?

Up here it seems a couple of our prairie cities shifted power..Edmonton and Calgary, which were very much equal in Alberta now sees Calgary having a slight lead.

[Allan83]

Originally Posted by Xelebes

Allan, stop testing our patience here.

Dude. I did not even mention Alberta. The discussion isn’t even about Alberta. Rousseau wasn’t even part of the discussion. And yet he jumps into the thread with some kind of raving nonsense about me and Alberta? If that isn’t trolling nothing is. And how many times has he done this? He did it in the thread addressed to non-Canadians about the Stampede, and he’s done it many other times as well, in spite of never having been west of Winnipeg and knowing nothing about the west. This is not some isolated incident. This is an ongoing problem with this guy. So are you going to deal with this obvious troll or not?

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

It's very different from Paris then. In Paris people don't like different French accents (even if they don't say it explicitly, their attitude shows it implicitly). Sad to say, but I think if the Parisians heard the Québécois accent everyday and everywhere in Paris, they would probably not like it at all (of course when it's the one traveler once in a year, they find it cute). Migrants in Paris (both domestic migrants and international immigrants) try in general to hide their accents and adopt the "neutral" Parisian accent, due to this very strong and implicit social pressure. It's quite obvious in the case of migrants from other French regions, who hide their accents as much as possible when they move to Paris. It's harder for African immigrants, but usually their children adopt the (ugly) banlieue Parisian accent (which is another sort of Parisian accent, used by working-class White people in the banlieues as well as children of immigrants).

mm... I don't know, I don't mind. Sure the Québec accent's been harshly mocked, kinda like the older generation used to make fun of the Belgian accent, I think. Bah, it's just full of crap. Frankly, I'm not so sure various national or African accents are so systematically disparaged. I think it mostly depends of social circles, and of course, the working and middle classes are definitely much easier in that respect than people from upper classes who, I suspect particularly tend to feel threatened by anything related to strangers, anything "out there" so to speak. It is what's called "l'entre-soi", right? L'entre-soi... The establishment basically scared to lose their upper situations. I think it's that stupid. We're gonna have to clean up that, mm?

[ue]

Originally Posted by Razor

I find the shift of power in Ohio's cities interesting..Just out of curiosity, has Pittsburgh and Philadelphia ever battled it out?..How about Rochester and Buffalo in New York State?

Up here it seems a couple of our prairie cities shifted power..Edmonton and Calgary, which were very much equal in Alberta now sees Calgary having a slight lead.

Both cities have been pretty much neck-and-neck for most of Alberta's history. Up until the late '80s, Edmonton was clearly the more important of the two, now it's Calgary in the spotlight.

Official figures for both cities (only city proper, not metropolitan area) with populations in bold for when either city was the largest

Calgary
1891: 3,876
1901: 4,091
1911: 43,704
1921: 63,305
1931: 83,761
1941: 88,904
1951: 129,060
1961: 249,641
1971: 403,319
1981: 592,743
1991: 710,795
2001: 878,866
2011: 1,096,833

Edmonton
1891: N/A (less than 2,000)
1901: 2,626
1911: 24,900
1921: 58,821*
1931: 79,197
1941: 93,817
1951: 159,631
1961: 281,027
1971: 438,152
1981: 532,246
1991: 616,741
2001: 666,104
2011: 812,201

*From 1907-1914, there was a speculative real estate bubble in Edmonton which peaked the city's population at 79,000 in 1914, making it larger than Calgary. The bubble burst with WWI and Edmonton spent the interwar years regaining that population.

Surprised to see Calgary retake top spot by the '81 census, though. Most people associate Calgary's takeover with the late '80s (88 Olympics) to mid '90s (when TELUS moved its headquarters from Edmonton to Calgary). Edmonton also saw more growth in surrounding municipalities in the '70s and '80s, like Sherwood Park, St. Albert, and Fort Saskatchewan, while Calgary was and remains largely a unicity (wherein the metro area and city proper is nearly identical). I think in terms of metro areas, Calgary finally overtook Edmonton in the late '80s.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Just out of curiosity, is there anything that Allan83 says that isn't complete horseshit? He obviously enjoys playing the counterintuitive contrarian, but his assertions rarely seem to stand up under even the most passing scrutiny. Which is the classic definition of a troll, I guess.

I know this is a diversion to an otherwise excellent thread - but thank you for this! Spot on.


On a more pertinent note, the Calgary/Edmonton one is interesting. Growing up in Calgary I found it very hard to admit Edmonton was larger. Calgary seemed to feel more important about itself as a city almost always. In terms of metro areas I don't think Calgary actually overtook Edmonton till the early 2000's.

[ue]

^ I guess it depends on how far back we're talking here. For myself, Calgary has always been the largest of the two and the more important. From the '70s and earlier, I think Edmonton was clearly the more prominent of the two, regardless of size.

It started with being chosen as the capital and then getting the main university (which was originally in the separate Town of Strathcona across the river), but Edmonton was also the media and financial hub for the province, not to mention the industrial and cultural heart (which it maintains to this day).

Landmarks and events, such as the Hotel MacDonald (more grand in my opinion than the Palliser), Alberta Legislature (not just what it represented as being the political centre of the province, but also as an architectural landmark), the High Level Bridge, and then post-war the CN Tower, Muttart, Commonwealth Games and subsequent stadium and LRT, Universiade, WEM, and the Gretzky hockey dynasty also helped.

From the '90s to present, I'd say Calgary has been more prominent or 'important'. You see it in regular conversation all the time, Calgary is always the Albertan city mentioned, and often alongside Vancouver or Toronto. It's often just a subconscious thing where you're listing random examples where other cities, like Edmonton, would suffice, but Calgary pops up instead. Being given a huge boost in the 1988 Olympics certainly helped, as did a relatively stable economy in the '90s, and the continued shift of corporate offices from Edmonton to Calgary.

The '80s would have been a stalemate overall for both, I guess. In 1980, Edmonton would've been the clear big city of Alberta, but by 1989, it had switched to Calgary. The decade was important for both cities' development. Many corporate offices were moving to Calgary's new, taller buildings, but there was still a good corporate presence in Edmonton. While Calgary hosted the Winter Olympics, Edmonton hosted Universiade and just a few years before (1978), hosted the Commonwealth Games. Both cities were healthy, booming cities of about equal footing at the time.

[niwell]

^I agree! Hence I said "important about itself" - to me at least Calgary always had this idea that it was the biggest deal even when it was the second largest city in the province. But yeah I am referring to post 1990s here, maybe late 80s. Before that I can't really say because I was too young to notice these things.

It's interesting to note that this boosterism has led to the idea that Calgary alone is booming. Nobody seems to recognize that Edmonton is growing at breakneck pace as well.

[GlassCity]

Why did companies change headquarters from Edmonton to Calgary? I can't imagine living in a city and watching company after company pack up and leave, let alone to a provincial rival.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Nobody bitches about immigrant accents in French in Paris either, but there is a certain je-ne-sais-quoi in the attitude of people that makes you feel that immigrant (and regional) accents are strongly frowned upon, sometimes to the point of mockery (Eastern Asian French accent is the one I've heard the most mocked). The social pressure to conform to Parisian accent is strong, although almost always implicit and non verbal.

I get it. You don't really get this in Montreal and Quebec either.

If anything there is a subtle perception on the part of some that the Parisian accent is the most prestigious one. And there is the odd person who was born and raised here who speaks with the Parisian accent (or what they think sounds like one) in order to give themselves ''airs''.

Now this behaviour, on the part of locals, IS frowned upon. But no one would mock or look down upon people speaking with the accent of the place they grew up in. And this includes Parisians.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Razor

You get this


Then you get this which I totally agree with. The shift started happening well before.As a matter of fact The October crisis in 1970 started the Brinks trucks rolling down the 401 to Toronto, but ya the full effects of the transition started showing in around 1976.




Bravo!


You see, Allan is a tad bit insecure, so you have to cut him some slack I guess.

I think that some of these posts are simply a reflection of a certain view in Anglo-Canada that Quebec has to go along with its view and way of doing things, lest it suffer terrible consequences. Of course not everyone thinks this way as seen by some of the other posts on here.

And this is not to say that Quebec's politics have not had an impact - they have. But they have not been as dramatic as is often claimed and more recent Quebec history also shows there is another way other than the Anglo-Canadian way, and that it can work for Quebec.

[mousquet]

Sorry to everyone for pushing further into that discussion, but honestly the Parisian accents, whether banlieue style or more traditional are really nothing prestigious or elegant to me. Once somebody from Lyon told me I had a slight "titi parisien" accent, which disturbed me cause I find that accent a little rude and grumpy. I had to fight against it in my mouth, trying hard to speak more neutral, taking the time to "speak slower and think faster" as the wise Chinese would say. I guess we're just widely the packed products of the places we were raised in, but I sure don't want to be told I have a Parisian accent.

What the hell "titi parisien"? That's old-fashioned like Jean Gabin.

[Yuri]

On page 6 I posted the Lake Ontario shift, and now the Lake Erie shift:

Buffalo

IMG_2431 by Mark Bofinger, on Flickr

vs

Cleveland

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2012...hio_resid.html


1830
Buffalo --------- 54,201
Cleveland ------- 16,069


1840
Buffalo --------- 93,597 --- 72.7%
Cleveland ------- 58,692 -- 265.2%


1850
Buffalo -------- 143,269 --- 53.1%
Cleveland ------- 88,839 --- 51.4%


1860
Buffalo -------- 192,370 --- 34.3%
Cleveland ------ 123,353 --- 38.9%


1870
Buffalo -------- 229,136 --- 19.1%
Cleveland ------ 178,253 --- 44.5%


1880
Buffalo -------- 274,057 --- 19.6%
Cleveland ------ 248,795 --- 39.6%


1890
Buffalo -------- 385,472 --- 40.7%
Cleveland ------ 368,500 --- 48.1%


1900
Cleveland ------ 515,657 --- 39.9%
Buffalo -------- 508,647 --- 32.0%


1910
Cleveland ------ 736,389 --- 42.8%
Buffalo -------- 621,021 --- 22.1%


1920
Cleveland ---- 1,062,774 --- 44.3%
Buffalo -------- 753,393 --- 21.3%


1930
Cleveland ---- 1,352,335 --- 27.2%
Buffalo -------- 911,737 --- 21.0%


1940
Cleveland ---- 1,379,660 ---- 2.0%
Buffalo -------- 958,487 ---- 5.1%


1950
Cleveland ---- 1,613,673 --- 17.0%
Buffalo ------ 1,089,230 --- 13.6%


1960
Cleveland ---- 2,014,095 --- 24.8%
Buffalo ------ 1,306,957 --- 20.0%


1970
Cleveland ---- 2,175,343 ---- 8.0%
Buffalo ------ 1,349,211 ---- 3.2%


1980
Cleveland ---- 1,986,110 --- -8.7%
Buffalo ------ 1,242,826 --- -7.9%


1990
Cleveland ---- 1,898,765 --- -4.4%
Buffalo ------ 1,189,288 --- -4.3%


2000
Cleveland ---- 1,906,153 ---- 0.4%
Buffalo ------ 1,170,111 --- -1.6%


2010
Cleveland ---- 1,811,519 --- -5.0%
Buffalo ------ 1,135,509 --- -3.0%


Buffalo: Erie and Niagara counties; Cleveland: Cuyahoga, Lake and Lorain counties.


Shift took place in 1900 and for Cleveland grew faster than Buffalo virtually all the time.

Since 1970, however, when they both peaked, Cleveland experienced a slightly bigger decline: -16.7% against 15.8% of Buffalo. On the other hand, Cleveland managed to grow in the 1990's while Buffalo lost population every decade since 1970.

Trivia: Buffalo and Cleveland are the only metro areas hit by the snowfall lake effect.

[Serenade]

Athens v. Sparta although Athens was always the most dominant city-state.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by yuriandrade

On page 6 I posted the Lake Ontario shift, and now the Lake Erie shift:

Buffalo

IMG_2431 by Mark Bofinger, on Flickr

vs

Cleveland

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2012...hio_resid.html


1830
Buffalo --------- 54,201
Cleveland ------- 16,069


1840
Buffalo --------- 93,597 --- 72.7%
Cleveland ------- 58,692 -- 265.2%


1850
Buffalo -------- 143,269 --- 53.1%
Cleveland ------- 88,839 --- 51.4%


1860
Buffalo -------- 192,370 --- 34.3%
Cleveland ------ 123,353 --- 38.9%


1870
Buffalo -------- 229,136 --- 19.1%
Cleveland ------ 178,253 --- 44.5%


1880
Buffalo -------- 274,057 --- 19.6%
Cleveland ------ 248,795 --- 39.6%


1890
Buffalo -------- 385,472 --- 40.7%
Cleveland ------ 368,500 --- 48.1%


1900
Cleveland ------ 515,657 --- 39.9%
Buffalo -------- 508,647 --- 32.0%


1910
Cleveland ------ 736,389 --- 42.8%
Buffalo -------- 621,021 --- 22.1%


1920
Cleveland ---- 1,062,774 --- 44.3%
Buffalo -------- 753,393 --- 21.3%


1930
Cleveland ---- 1,352,335 --- 27.2%
Buffalo -------- 911,737 --- 21.0%


1940
Cleveland ---- 1,379,660 ---- 2.0%
Buffalo -------- 958,487 ---- 5.1%


1950
Cleveland ---- 1,613,673 --- 17.0%
Buffalo ------ 1,089,230 --- 13.6%


1960
Cleveland ---- 2,014,095 --- 24.8%
Buffalo ------ 1,306,957 --- 20.0%


1970
Cleveland ---- 2,175,343 ---- 8.0%
Buffalo ------ 1,349,211 ---- 3.2%


1980
Cleveland ---- 1,986,110 --- -8.7%
Buffalo ------ 1,242,826 --- -7.9%


1990
Cleveland ---- 1,898,765 --- -4.4%
Buffalo ------ 1,189,288 --- -4.3%


2000
Cleveland ---- 1,906,153 ---- 0.4%
Buffalo ------ 1,170,111 --- -1.6%


2010
Cleveland ---- 1,811,519 --- -5.0%
Buffalo ------ 1,135,509 --- -3.0%


Buffalo: Erie and Niagara counties; Cleveland: Cuyahoga, Lake and Lorain counties.


Shift took place in 1900 and for Cleveland grew faster than Buffalo virtually all the time.

Since 1970, however, when they both peaked, Cleveland experienced a slightly bigger decline: -16.7% against 15.8% of Buffalo. On the other hand, Cleveland managed to grow in the 1990's while Buffalo lost population every decade since 1970.

Trivia: Buffalo and Cleveland are the only metro areas hit by the snowfall lake effect.

Grand Rapids, Michigan also receives lake affect snow since it sits on the windward coast of a Great Lake. But it usually doesn't receive nearly as much snow as the areas of western New York State.

[montréaliste]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

^^How do Francophone Montréalais react to France's French accent being more and more heard in daily life? Is it perceived as charming? annoying? tedious? funny? too visible? fresh and new? growing too much in terms of presence? something else? I wonder.

It is actually so commonplace as to be unremarkable since, as I said, french folk are found in all spheres of the economy and all parts of the territory. Also, the french presence in the Quebec media or cultural scene has always been strong. It predates the waves of immigration of which we speak by a long shot.

The french accent doesnt jar as much as the Quebec accent in France since we are bound to hear it more often in the media and film than the french hear our accents. I believe this influx of french from all parts of the franco world is very beneficial, I hope everybody manages to break through some of the hurdles to employment in terms of academic equivalences. I spoke to an Algerian immigrant of twelve years who used to teach math in France before taking a leap here, and he says that despite a Phd in math, he hasnt found employment in education; he is an installer for a cable company.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by montréaliste

The french accent doesnt jar as much as the Quebec accent in France since we are bound to hear it more often in the media and film than the french hear our accents. .

By the age of 5, you average Québécois kid has been exposed to thousands of hours of the European French accent. In Quebec, the Disney Princesses have that accent, as does Hannah Montana and so does Barbie. And this is not to mention the French-origin stuff like Astérix et Obélix which is also very popular here.

[Minato Ku]

On the opposite, famous Quebecers in France speak almost without the Quebec accent on French media.
We go a bit too much off topid here.

[JonathanGRR]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Grand Rapids, Michigan also receives lake affect snow since it sits on the windward coast of a Great Lake. But it usually doesn't receive nearly as much snow as the areas of western New York State.

Grand Rapids-Wyoming MSA (Grand Rapids, Holland, Grand Haven), Kalamazoo-Portage MSA (South Haven, Kalamazoo to a much lesser extent), Muskegon MSA, Niles-Benton Harbor MSA (Benton Harbor, St. Joseph), and South Bend-Mishawaka MSA (Dowagiac, Cassopolis) all experience lake effect snow from Lake Michigan...Traverse City will probably also be added to this list after the 2020 census.