CHICAGO: ORD & MDW discussion - Page 77

F1 Tommy · #**1521** Posted **Sep 26, 2014, 2:41 PM**

You have to remember that is only take offs and landings. Chicago has alot more regionals and many more cargo flights compared to ATL that makes that number possible. ATL has alot more domestic connecting thru passenger traffic, so more passenger traffic total.

Hot Rod · #**1522** Posted **Sep 28, 2014, 4:58 AM**

ATL got eclipsed by PEK in terms of pax. So it's now PEK and ORD for the title holders!

MayorOfChicago · #**1523** Posted **Sep 29, 2014, 2:06 PM**

^ Can't help to have thousands of flights cancelled after the mess at Ohare on Friday that's still dragging on through the next week or two.

lrt's friend · #**1524** Posted **Sep 29, 2014, 2:42 PM**

I was impacted by the Chicago issue on Saturday and redirected to Atlanta. This revealed a weakness in Atlanta airport's customer information system by allowing airline specific departure signs within the airport. I was left with no information on how to find a connecting flight (I was changing airlines in Atlanta) and airline staff were unable to assist me.

atlantaguy · #**1525** Posted **Oct 1, 2014, 4:34 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I was impacted by the Chicago issue on Saturday and redirected to Atlanta. This revealed a weakness in Atlanta airport's customer information system by allowing airline specific departure signs within the airport. I was left with no information on how to find a connecting flight (I was changing airlines in Atlanta) and airline staff were unable to assist me.

That's unfortunate you had to deal with that. I can't imagine airline staff couldn't direct you to the correct concourse for your airline. There are very large maps of the entire terminal at the centerpoint to each concourse, where the trains are. In every train station there are display boards showing all flights for every carrier. These are throughout the landside terminals also (no help if you're connecting).

You are correct though. When you are on Delta's or Southwest's concourses, you won't see other airlines displayed. I've noticed this in several hubs around the country however, so I don't think it's unique to ATL.

HowardL · #**1526** Posted **Oct 13, 2014, 6:06 PM**

Better late than never. From the Trib: O'Hare takes step to host huge Airbus A380

F1 Tommy · #**1527** Posted **Oct 16, 2014, 2:06 PM**

Royal Jordanian 787 service to ORD:

http://worldairlinenews.com/2014/09/...lanned-routes/

denizen467 · #**1528** Posted **Oct 22, 2014, 4:00 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by HowardL

Better late than never. From the Trib: O'Hare takes step to host huge Airbus A380

Pretty good article by Hilkevitch. It says the City is aiming for A380 traffic as soon as 2016. UA and AA are compelled to help pay for the study, but are, as expected, warning they don't plan to pay for construction.

One money quote from the article was of the CEO of Emirates saying that he "... would like to stretch the fuselage of the A380 to accommodate 850 seats in three service classes. When that happens ... Emirates would like to 'pop them into Chicago twice a day.'"

chiphile · #**1529** Posted **Nov 13, 2014, 9:45 PM**

Pretty awesome. I stayed at the Hyatt O'Hare once; amazing views.

http://wgntv.com/2014/11/11/watch-ma...-off-at-ohare/

N830MH · #**1530** Posted **Nov 14, 2014, 3:29 AM**

Any news about terminal 4 or terminal 6 expansion? Hasn't they already received approved? I think it's time to renovated the entire terminal 1 & 3, as well. They needs to built the CBP facility at the main terminal. They won't be towed from the entire terminal 5. Can they consider it?

aquablue · #**1531** Posted **Nov 14, 2014, 5:48 PM**

O'Hare will be a monster of an airport with 6 parallel runways and two more. What an airfield. Pity most of the terminals look like shit.

Ch.G, Ch.G · #**1532** Posted **Nov 14, 2014, 9:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by HowardL

Better late than never. From the Trib: O'Hare takes step to host huge Airbus A380

Quote:

Originally Posted by denizen467

Pretty good article by Hilkevitch. It says the City is aiming for A380 traffic as soon as 2016. UA and AA are compelled to help pay for the study, but are, as expected, warning they don't plan to pay for construction.

One money quote from the article was of the CEO of Emirates saying that he "... would like to stretch the fuselage of the A380 to accommodate 850 seats in three service classes. When that happens ... Emirates would like to 'pop them into Chicago twice a day.'"

I was under the impression that Airbus's bet on bigger planes was a huge miscalculation. It's not exactly doing well...

denizen467 · #**1533** Posted **Nov 15, 2014, 6:21 AM**

^ Yes, that has been the prevailing view, but that analysis has to do only with Airbus, and its R&D investment in the A380 project. It doesn't mean that, from a carrier point of view, the A380 is useless in certain niches; Emirates, Singapore, and a few others have found it works well on certain routes. Airbus's loss is their gain.

Nevertheless I was surprised seeing the Emirates CEO quote, and I do think there's a chance he said it fancifully, possibly just to nudge ORD to get the darn airport ready for these beasts. Because at that point, Emirates would still be one of the only airlines flying these planes (at least on the routes it flies), positioning it for market dominance, given the low cost per seat-mile of the aircraft. (On the other hand, Lufthansa flies the A380 from Frankfurt to Houston, which is medium-long haul, and SFO, which is long haul but not ultra long haul, so there may well be interest at ORD from Lufthansa as well as from Pacific carriers, and from Emirates for two per day.)

denizen467 · #**1534** Posted **Nov 15, 2014, 7:17 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by aquablue

O'Hare will be a monster of an airport with 6 parallel runways and two more. What an airfield. Pity most of the terminals look like shit.

Compared to the world's emerging commercial capitals, yes, compared to most of the Americas, not really. That's pretty much how it has been and will be in this country. Plus, the airlines that sell lounge memberships have reduced incentive to support terminal improvements; their lounges are increasingly executive havens from the hoi polloi terminals. But in a sense this accurately mirrors American society, its cities, and socioeconomically diverse economies in general: Get less if you pay less, get more if you pay more.

On a more exciting note, it's not just the 6 parallel runways, which is a number that will be matched by a few other airports. More interestingly, it's also that, as far as I have been able to research, ORD will become the only airport in the world with 4 parallel runways that enjoy significant separation -- at least roughly 1 mile -- between them (so that 4 landings could take place simultaneously). There are a number of other airports that have 3 parallel runways with significant separation, but if those airports have added a 4th parallel runway, it has always been immediately adjacent to one of the 3 and I believe this prevents the possibility of 4 arrival streams. And ORD and all other airports with 5th and 6th parallel runways have always built them immediately adjacent to another runway.

After the 2008 opening of the most recent runway, ORD began running 3 simultaneous arrival streams (you can see the three columns of approaching aircraft clearly when driving north from downtown along Lake Shore Drive, particularly during certain portions of the day). Even without switching to regular usage of 4 arrival streams, theoretically ORD could shift to 4 during heavy rain, snow, and fog to avert the delays that would otherwise be inevitable.

kbud · #**1535** Posted **Jan 16, 2015, 9:34 PM**

When is terminal 5 going forward with the gate upgrades for the A380? Emirates just announced they are proceeding to a daily 77W on the route. I've also read that AA dropped 1 of their 4 LHR nonstops. They were intersted in upgauging to a 77W for one of the LHR runs, but because of gate capacity issues at terminal 5 they actually downgauged it to a 767; what a large drop of passengers for AA on that route (not surprisingly since all AA does at ORD the past decade is decrease their int'l presence at ORD). Are there any serious talks to expand terminal 5 or proceed with the World Gateway Project that added a new terminal 6 and terminal 4?

denizen467 · #**1536** Posted **Jan 18, 2015, 11:56 AM**

^ Sounds like an awful situation, since I'm not aware of any near term plans to expand international arrival capacity.

Other than the recent downgauging, has the "past decade" of AA's ORD international capacity reduction been for the same reason, or for other reasons?

N830MH · #**1537** Posted **Jan 18, 2015, 5:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbud

When is terminal 5 going forward with the gate upgrades for the A380? Emirates just announced they are proceeding to a daily 77W on the route. I've also read that AA dropped 1 of their 4 LHR nonstops. They were intersted in upgauging to a 77W for one of the LHR runs, but because of gate capacity issues at terminal 5 they actually downgauged it to a 767; what a large drop of passengers for AA on that route (not surprisingly since all AA does at ORD the past decade is decrease their int'l presence at ORD). Are there any serious talks to expand terminal 5 or proceed with the World Gateway Project that added a new terminal 6 and terminal 4?

They won't be ready the A380 gates capable. Not for a distant future. Right now, they will kept 77W for a while. Later on, they will deploy the A380 at ORD. It will happens. There is no room for A380 gates at the entire terminal 5. It won't be A380 at ORD in a distant future.

Kngkyle · #**1538** Posted **Jan 18, 2015, 5:26 PM**

Some of the newer international service announcements:

Emirates is increasing capacity on Dubai – Chicago service from 01MAY15, as the airline begins Boeing 777-300ER operation on daily basis, replacing -200LR.

Finnair from 13JUN15 is launching new service to the US, with 3 weekly Helsinki – Chicago operation, on board Airbus A330-300 aircraft. Planned operational schedule as follow.

Alitalia is planning to increase Rome – Chicago service during peak summer season in 2015, which sees daily operation, instead of 5 weekly, from 01JUN15. Service operates with Airbus A330-200 aircraft.

Hainan Airlines in Summer 2015 season is increasing Beijing – Chicago operation. From 29MAR15, the airline adds 4th weekly service (Day x135), followed by 5th weekly flight from 25APR15 (Day x13). This route will see daily service from 25JUN15, until 31AUG15.

UNITED from 26OCT14 is increasing capacity on Chicago – Beijing route for Winter 2014/15 season, which sees Boeing 747-400 operating, instead of 777-200ER.

DELTA from 26OCT14 is launching Chicago O’Hare – London Heathrow service, its 7th route from the US to Heathrow. With this new operation in Winter season, DELTA will offer year-round service on this route, together with joint venture partner Virgin Atlantic.

kbud · #**1539** Posted **Jan 19, 2015, 4:33 PM**

- I know there were architects assessing terminal 5 to add A380 jetway capabilities. Not sure of the time
- Delta actually cancelled their winter nonstop to LHR about a month after they announced it; strange.
- Prior to AA's LHR downgauging from a 77W to a 767, their drastic int'l decline at ORD has been related to their own doing and not gate space at T5. Think about the nonstops they had out of ORD internationally over the past decade (India, Brussels, Zurich, Milan, Stockholm, Frankfurt, Moscow, Sao Paulo, Rio, etc...). It is really sad. Not much is left. LHR was a fortress with BA and AA to LHR, but now AA has dropped down to 3 nonstop (one time they had 5) and BA hasn't added capacity on this route for decades. At least UA is adding and so are the foreign carriers at ORD. BUT they won't be able to add much more until Chicago expands their international terminal or builds the proposed terminal 4 and 6.

chiphile · #**1540** Posted **Jan 22, 2015, 7:35 AM**

http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayi...t-of/22125499/

Chicago O'Hare retakes 'world's busiest' title … sort of

"O'Hare has overtaken Atlanta last year based on the number of flight operations...
...Atlanta is expected to remain the world's busiest in terms of passenger count. That, the Chicago Sun-Times notes, is 'the traditional yardstick by which the title of 'world's busiest' has been bestowed.'"

---

Of course, passenger numbers are all that matter, and I don't think it's possible without serious terminal expansion (the entire western half of the airport still sits empty, but may never get developed, who knows).

Why do passenger numbers matter more?

Because it's like saying you have the world's busiest train station with 10 single-car trains coming in daily, versus another station that has 6 ten-car trains per day.

More passengers is better for the economy, along with bigger planes, not the little 40 seaters we have currently crowding Chicago's airspace (and thus giving O'Hare this "title" back).

My only hope is United looks into serious westward expansion of terminal one, there's enough room there to fit an entire Denver airport, or more.