NEW YORK | Fulton Center

[Onn]

Originally Posted by Eveningsong

It looks cold and uninviting....

What happened to the silver walls/facade and the flashy signs?

Maybe its just the primer? (Bonkers design choices...I know, let's paint it black! )

[animatedmartian]

It kinda looks like any other office building with just a weird hat on top. It's not bad, but seems easy to miss.

[Perklol]

^^Agreed. It looks like any other anonymous office building in the area.

Originally Posted by Onn

Maybe its just the primer? (Bonkers design choices...I know, let's paint it black! )

That was a terrible choice imo.

[eleven=11]

is this building open yet?
the inside food court and retail....

[detroitmetro101]

i do not know if others have mentioned this, but do you feel like this was a wasted opportunity not to build a commercial tower above this station? there is something off about it and its location. i guess what comes to mind as an example is the times square station, etc...

[scalziand]

It has been mentioned before, and I believe that the explanation for no air rights development was that since the property was taken using eminent domain, and the MTA only paid for the land, and not the air rights, so the air rights are kind of in limbo.

[aquablue]

It's not great and rather ugly!! What a shame, compared to the earliest renders of a modern glass cube. Something only the MTA could concoct. A beauty and the beast scenario is taking place here with regard to the WTC hub. I suppose the functionality will be a good improvement, but this was obviously done on the cheap.. Don't get me started with that ridiculous hat sitting on top which actually looks comical to me. What a mess -- the FiDI just got even worse looking.

[Perklol]

Originally Posted by aquablue

Don't get me started with that ridiculous hat sitting on top which actually looks comical to me. What a mess -- the FiDI just got even worse looking.

So true.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by detroitmetro101

i do not know if others have mentioned this, but do you feel like this was a wasted opportunity not to build a commercial tower above this station? there is something off about it and its location. i guess what comes to mind as an example is the times square station, etc...

Absolutely not. I know we are all supposed to support skyscrapers at all costs, but I think the Fulton rotunda needs to be a somewhat human-scaled object in Lower Manhattan.

This is just like Grand Central should not have a high rise directly on top of it, as Penn Central and Marcel Breuer proposed back in the 60s, and Penn Station should never have been torn down for a privatized arena and office tower. Being a short building among giants is powerful and draws attention, plus it allows for natural light to filter down to track level.

There's also the symbolism of it - the transit system is a public good that should (in theory) reject any kind of direct ties to the profit-oriented world of business.

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Absolutely not. I know we are all supposed to support skyscrapers at all costs, but I think the Fulton rotunda needs to be a somewhat human-scaled object in Lower Manhattan.

This is just like Grand Central should not have a high rise directly on top of it, as Penn Central and Marcel Breuer proposed back in the 60s, and Penn Station should never have been torn down for a privatized arena and office tower. Being a short building among giants is powerful and draws attention, plus it allows for natural light to filter down to track level.

There's also the symbolism of it - the transit system is a public good that should (in theory) reject any kind of direct ties to the profit-oriented world of business.

To be fair, GCT was designed with that exact possibility in mind.

As for Penn...well, it was torn down because it was a.) inefficiently designed and b.) was extremely expensive to maintain, given the drastic drop in train travel in the 50's and 60's. Now, of course there should never have been a sh***y looking office building, or an even sh****er looking arena built on top of it; it should be common sense that as they city grew in population, rail travel would have again increased, but there was some pragmatism involved with tearing Penn down...

Thankfully, the license for MSG expires in nine years which means there is some hope that it will not be renewed and that a proper new Penn Station can be built.

[RobEss]

They were testing the curved television displays today!

[CCs77]

Originally Posted by Submariner

To be fair, GCT was designed with that exact possibility in mind.

As for Penn...well, it was torn down because it was a.) inefficiently designed and b.) was extremely expensive to maintain, given the drastic drop in train travel in the 50's and 60's. Now, of course there should never have been a sh***y looking office building, or an even sh****er looking arena built on top of it; it should be common sense that as they city grew in population, rail travel would have again increased, but there was some pragmatism involved with tearing Penn down...

Thankfully, the license for MSG expires in nine years which means there is some hope that it will not be renewed and that a proper new Penn Station can be built.

Well, it is the first time that I hear that the old Penn Station was inefficiently designed. When it was build, was the first time that the Pennsylvania Railroad entered directly to Manhattan, so it was done to be a grandiose as possible, state of the art station, with a layout that posibilitate the easiest way for people to board and unboard the trains and in general use the station.

The "new" Penn Station is not even new, it is just a huge downgrade from the previous one, that uses the same trackage of the old one and by no means it was done to be more efficient, but as cheap as possible, exchanging full of light, huge, grandiose spaces with a clear layout for an underground maze. If they could have been able to get rid of the station at all, they would, and just more easily construct the buildings.

The reason for demolishing it wasn't because it was inneficient, and not even because of the maintenance (although that did was a factor) the main reason was a real state deal, where the rents that precisely those sh***y looking office building and arena were to provide cash for a company that was losing more money by each year. Something that may only served to buy some time to that company, which ended up bankrupt just seven years after they tore down the station anyway.

While the old station was built to be the pride of New York, the new one become just the shame of it...

And this is what New York lost...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fileenn_Station1.jpg


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pe...att_Statue.jpg


http://www.shorpy.com/node/10243

Picture3 by briansoldo, on Flickr

[eltodesukane]

50 Years Later, Relive the Destruction of Old Penn Station
http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2013/1...nn_station.php

10 Gorgeous, Nostalgic Photos of New York's Old Penn Station
http://www.citylab.com/design/2013/1...-station/7384/

PBS, The Rise and Fall of Penn Station
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPWcwLlfkwI

[aquablue]

Ugh, disgusting. The station for inter city rail from points West used to be in Jersey before Penn and people took ferries over. Now Ny'ers and bemused first-time visitors emerge from the ground like rats scurrying around a maze, and it's the worst of all, even worse than taking a ferry in terms of civilized travel. Other cities like Tokyo have underground stations like Shinjuku, but they didn't lose such a gem like this which makes it much worse to remember what they lost. Good thing Ny'ers tend to be forward looking people and don't live in the past. The problem needs to be fixed someday. The nice thing is that the wait will be worth it.

I propose tearing down MSG and replacing it with a station with no tower on top. Just a massive modern station. I'd prefer to rebuild Penn, but that never happens today. Only in Germany do old things get rebuilt. In the meantime, fund Moynihan station and make it at least a proper gateway into the city for Amtrak travellers. It will be a shadow of Penn, but far nicer than arriving into that awful waiting hall.

[drumz0rz]

A rebuilt Penn would be amazing. You don't see that happen anymore in this city. Everything that goes up fits into the same architecture box of the period. In the 60s/70s it was tall towers with vertical lines of cement / aluminum. Now it's glassy boxes, curved walls and pointy spires bathed in color changing LEDs.

How great would it be to see them erect a stone building again. It could easily be modified to be modern as well. Replace the old iron trainhall with modern steel I-beam construction, replacing riveted trusses with wide open spans of steel and glass.

That would be infinitely better than the $4 Billion sink hole that is the Calatrava hub or this equally spendy box and top hat.

Will it ever happen though? Of course not. Railroads are mostly publicly funded these days and not the least bit profitable. The real-estate value of that superblock in midtown is worth more than you can even dream.

[mrnyc]

welp i just used the station via the main nw entrance on broadway over the weekend. its definately all still a boarded up construction zone. as you head down to the train, you can't see anything. so nothing to see inside here as yet.

[Perklol]

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.1988694

Fulton Center subway hub to open in November

An MTA official announced Monday the $1.4 billion transit center — the Grand Central of downtown — will open on Nov. 10, making transfer between several subway lines easier, and also features stunning visuals and retail space.

The MTA's gleaming $1.4 billion Fulton Center subway hub will open Nov. 10, a transit official announced Monday.

Billed as the Grand Central of downtown, the center is designed to simplify transfers among several subway lines and provide new transfer opportunities.

The glass-and-steel-entrance building at Fulton St. and Broadway features a 90-foot-wide skylight that allows sunlight to filter down to the two mezzanines below street level.

MTA officials previously said the Dey St. Concourse, a new underground passageway linking eight subway lines at the Fulton complex to the Cortland St. R-train station would not open until next year when certain Port Authority construction at the World Trade Center site is completed.

But the MTA has had a change of heart and will open the Dey St. Concourse on Nov. 10, too, an MTA spokesman said.

...The Fulton Center features:

- A web of steel cables descending from the circular skylight like a net hanging down from a basketball hoop. This web is adorned with nearly 1,000 diamond-shaped pieces of aluminum. The giant piece of art reflects the sky downward and through the building.

- A lower mezzanine called the "mixing bowl" where hundreds of thousands of subway riders and tourists will cross paths, similar to the scene on Grand Central Terminal's marbled floors.

[aquablue]

Originally Posted by drumz0rz

A rebuilt Penn would be amazing. You don't see that happen anymore in this city. Everything that goes up fits into the same architecture box of the period. In the 60s/70s it was tall towers with vertical lines of cement / aluminum. Now it's glassy boxes, curved walls and pointy spires bathed in color changing LEDs.

How great would it be to see them erect a stone building again. It could easily be modified to be modern as well. Replace the old iron trainhall with modern steel I-beam construction, replacing riveted trusses with wide open spans of steel and glass.

That would be infinitely better than the $4 Billion sink hole that is the Calatrava hub or this equally spendy box and top hat.

Will it ever happen though? Of course not. Railroads are mostly publicly funded these days and not the least bit profitable. The real-estate value of that superblock in midtown is worth more than you can even dream.

Rebuilding it would be great, but yeah, not going to happen in NYC. I would be over the moon if they build a modern station with no tower on top and natural skylights. Germany has the right approach. They actually rebuild some of the lost beauties. It was a result of their own stupidity that they lost them (war), now NY has a responsibility to rebuild what their own stupidity allowed. Either a modern or a reconstruction, they owe the future generations a better entrance to the city than that of a rat scurrying out of maze. It's time for NY'ers to enter the city like Gods again, with dignity. Biden declared LaGuardia a third world airport, now something is being done about it (planned before Biden, but still). This place has been declared a hell-hole for decades, it's time for some big shot politico to start raining down the ire on this low-cieling cave with pigeon poop -- this station is worse that what they have in some third world countries and is absolutely a disgraceful embarrassment that a city know the world over for it's culture and energy is using something like this as their main station.

The whole area over there is changing, so this place will soon stick out like a relic from the past, a dinosaur amongst modern cutting edge development and infrastructure. The pressure will be on the Dolans as the public will be clamoring for change, one the Calatrava hub opens and the reality of Penn really is highlighted.

Fulton is an improvement of course, I just don't think it's anything amazing externally and doesn't really add much to the street wall.

[sparkling]

It's been a long time coming," said Mahadev Rahmen, the Director of the engineering firm Arup Limited, at a panel discussion last week hosted by the New York Transit Museum previewing the new Fulton Center subway station. The station is finally set to open this Monday, November 10th, at 5 p.m., after years of setbacks from issues related to funding, Hurricane Sandy, and systems testing, according to the panel members. When asked for some more explanation of the delays, the panel looked at one another, shook their heads, and seemed to agree upon an unspoken response of "we don't have all day."

The new station was conceived back in 2002 in response to the devastation faced by the Financial District on September 11, but the need for station to be improved has existed for decades. "Many New Yorkers remember the 'spaghetti mess,'" said Vincent Chang, an architect for Grimshaw who worked with Arup to execute the design and the subterranean infrastructure that connects passengers to the 10 subway lines running through the center. "Our goal was to address what it's like to be on the subway, in an anonymous and alienating space."

The new station will contain 65,000 square feet of retail and will be visited by over 300,000 people a day (that's 85 percent of all downtown subway-goers). The centerpiece of the station is the 120-foot-high "oculus," designed by James Carpenter, which opens the ceiling to the sky. "We wanted to create something that is not just functional but also identifiable and attractive." While the oculus, roughly the same size as the Guggenheim spiral, will certainly be "identifiable" and "attractive," it might not seem obvious how a hole in the ceiling could ever be labelled a functional architectural element, but the panel members argued otherwise.

The opening of the oculus, covered by glass, brings in light, thereby reducing the need for electric lighting. It will also act a reservoir for the heat that rises from the subway line spaghetti, reducing the demand for air conditioning. If there were ever a fire in the center, the smoke would rise up in the oculus allowing for relatively safe passage beneath. The sky reflectors, the most traditionally artistic element of the design, are "differently oriented" to the sun, "scattering and recasting' light down through the aluminum paneled netting of the oculus, according to Carpenter. "The reflectors could actually act as a time telling device," said Carpenter. With the artistic element of the new center representing 1 to 2 percent of the overall construction budget of $1.4 billion, Carpenter may have also designed the most expensive and least practical clock ever.

Behind the netting of the oculus are three circular levels of retail space, which Chang referred to as "doughnuts of accommodation." The retail operations on these levels are intended to appeal to a broader range of people than just transit users, meant to make the center a destination in its own right. "Grand Central station is the obvious reference point," said Chang, "but I wouldn't want to purport a direct comparison."

http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2014/1...ning_nears.php

[Perklol]

When asked for some more explanation of the delays, the panel looked at one another, shook their heads, and seemed to agree upon an unspoken response of "we don't have all day.

Is there something they didn't want to say?