What keeps Atlanta from reaching LA, Chicago, or NYC levels?

[JManc]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

I disagree.

Atlanta is well known internationally not only because of the Olympics, but also because of its airport. It also has one of the largest and most diverse corporate presence of any US city outside of NYC and Chicago (if you're important in the business world, you're likely going to be doing a fair amount of business travel to Atlanta). Furthermore, they don't think "Georgia" when Atlanta comes up in conversations (it's prominent enough to be discussed without being associated with Georgia).

I don't know of anyone who consider the cities of Dallas / Houston relevant outside the US. It's all "Texas" to them, the land of rednecks and cowboys (see King of the Hill and the character Kahn).

The same applies to Miami. To them, it's all "Florida," the land of Disney, Palm Trees and Beaches.

I will give you Detroit. It's the world's automotive capital after all. I will also give you DC (it's the nation's capital). I will also give you Seattle (because of Amazon / Microsoft), and Boston (because of MIT / Harvard). I will spot you San Francisco as well (Silicon Valley)

NYC, Chicago and LA are in classes of their own, simply because they're the largest cities in the country.

Or...maybe if you actually left the country you'd realize that people outside the U.S. probably have an equal familiarity with most 2nd tier U.S. cities mainly depending on what pop culture references they associate them with; Fraiser/ Seattle, Walking Dead/ Atlanta, Dallas/ Dallas, ABQ/Breaking Bad, Baltimore/ Homicide, etc. Others, like Houston are synonymous with oil and gas, Boston with higher education and wicked pissah accents.

Btw, Detroit is no longer the world's automotive capital...not by a long shot. San Francisco is San Francisco, not the Silicon Valley. When people in Hungary or China think of "San Francisco" they don't think of Apple or Google, they think of trolleys, Rice-A-Roni and Haight-Ashbury.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by JManc

Btw, Detroit is no longer the world's automotive capital...not by a long shot.

I don't think anyone in the auto industry would agree with you.

Detroit is still, easily, the auto capital of the planet. Every global auto firm has a sizable presence in Detroit. It's the only place where you absolutely need a presence.

[jayden]

Originally Posted by Chef

The sort of prominence that we are talking about is partially the result of cultural output over time. Atlanta hasn't been a massive city for long enough yet to rise to the same level as a cultural center. It has yet to spawn an internationally relevant cultural movement or have major cultural institutions. Cultural branding is what gives a city its oomph. It isn't something that can be manufactured by a government or chamber of commerce. It takes time and the accumulation of the works of creative geniuses.

[jayden]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I don't think anyone in the auto industry would agree with you.

Detroit is still, easily, the auto capital of the planet. Every global auto firm has a sizable presence in Detroit. It's the only place where you absolutely need a presence.

Is that why the population and the local economy has been in steady decline over the past decade? And let's not even talk about the recession...

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I don't think anyone in the auto industry would agree with you.

Detroit is still, easily, the auto capital of the planet. Every global auto firm has a sizable presence in Detroit. It's the only place where you absolutely need a presence.

Fair enough. Others have closed the gap; Japan, Europe, and now RoK and CHina.

I was speaking in terms in overall importance. GM was once one of the largest companies in the world with a presence and plants everywhere is now 1/10 the size of Facebook, the purveyor of cat videos and fake news, (in market cap) and 1/2 the size of Netflix. Same with Ford. Chrysler is now a subsidiary of Fiat. Their clout is further eroded by foreign plants all over the US.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by JManc

Or...maybe if you actually left the country you'd realize that people outside the U.S. probably have an equal familiarity with most 2nd tier U.S. cities mainly depending on what pop culture references they associate them with; Fraiser/ Seattle, Walking Dead/ Atlanta, Dallas/ Dallas, ABQ/Breaking Bad, Baltimore/ Homicide, etc. Others, like Houston are synonymous with oil and gas, Boston with higher education and wicked pissah accents.

Btw, Detroit is no longer the world's automotive capital...not by a long shot. San Francisco is San Francisco, not the Silicon Valley. When people in Hungary or China think of "San Francisco" they don't think of Apple or Google, they think of trolleys, Rice-A-Roni and Haight-Ashbury.

Most of your posts boils down to a simple difference in opinion.. We'll agree to disagree.

As far as the bolded, that's just not true. The R&D operations of every major automotive company is based in Detroit. It also has the densest automotive supply chain in the world (with MSU being the world's #1 Supply Chain school) with every major Auto Supplier, if not based in Detroit, having their North American HQ in Detroit.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by JManc

Fair enough.

I was speaking in terms in overall importance. GM was once one of the largest companies in the world is now 1/10 the size of Facebook in market cap and 1/2 the size of Netflix. Same with Ford. Chrysler is now a subsidiary of Fiat. Their clout is further eroded by foreign plants all over the US.

The Auto Industry overall is a mature industry that is shrinking (the Tech Industry and companies like Facebook will inevitably reach that point one day), but that shouldn't take away from Detroit's claim as auto industry's capital.

[Chef]

Originally Posted by jayden

Do you have more to offer than an emoji?

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

The R&D operations of every major automotive company is based in Detroit. It also has the densest automotive supply chain in the world (with MSU being the world's #1 Supply Chain school) with every major Auto Supplier, if not based in Detroit, having their North American HQ in Detroit.

This the main reason "Detroit" is still so important. It's less the Big Three, and more the fact that all the engineering talent is still in SE Michigan. Even if the Big Three disappeared, you would still likely have all the U.S./Japanese/German auto firms clustering in SE Michigan.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by jayden

Is that why the population and the local economy has been in steady decline over the past decade? And let's not even talk about the recession...

Metro Detroit's population is increasing, and its economy has generally outperformed the national economy in recent years. Detroit, if anything, is a modest Rust Belt outlier, with better-than-average recent population and economic trends.

But none of that is relevant. Detroit is the globe's most important auto center regardless of population/economic variability. It was the globe's auto center in 2008 too, when the region's population/economy was in free-fall. As long as the global automotive supply chain remains clustered in SE Michigan, then it will be the center.

[dc_denizen]

Originally Posted by JManc

Fair enough. Others have closed the gap; Japan, Europe, and now RoK and CHina.

I was speaking in terms in overall importance. GM was once one of the largest companies in the world with a presence and plants everywhere is now 1/10 the size of Facebook, the purveyor of cat videos and fake news, (in market cap) and 1/2 the size of Netflix. Same with Ford. Chrysler is now a subsidiary of Fiat. Their clout is further eroded by foreign plants all over the US.

market cap is a measure of future expected profitability, not size or scale of a business operation. Silicon valley valuations are mostly BS. 10$ billion dollar companies with 10 employees. hurrah, this economy is wonderful.

detroit has more engineers and R&D per capita than San Jose.

[Street Advocate]

Atlanta's culture is definitely still a work in progress. The arts and music scene is far more rugged here than say Chicago. Throw that in with the southern charm and elegance migrating across the southeast to Atlanta, the growing food scene, the pro-business atmosphere bringing in new money, and let's not forget the ever growing hispanic and asian demographics in Atlanta. Atlanta is very near a tipping point of pouring out cultural identity. Sure I do not expect it to ever be in the ranks of Chicago, NYC, or LA, but with a bit more density and population growth, I believe Atlanta will be viewed as a destination city in its own right. That said, I don't think Atlanta is there yet and what it needs most is people, jobs, and entertainment within closer proximity to one another.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

The Auto Industry overall is a mature industry that is shrinking (the Tech Industry and companies like Facebook will inevitably reach that point one day), but that shouldn't take away from Detroit's claim as auto industry's capital.

It's definitely maturing and we're in the midst of probably the biggest shift yet in the industry with the transition away from ICE to EV technology. We have also seen non-traditional players outside the industry (and Detriot) get in on the action (Elon Musk, Dyson, Apple, China) and steal the thunder from the traditional automakers although GM has stayed ahead of the curve. The Bolt beat the Model 3 to the market.

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

market cap is a measure of future expected profitability, not size or scale of a business operation. Silicon valley valuations are mostly BS. 10$ billion dollar companies with 10 employees. hurrah, this economy is wonderful.

detroit has more engineers and R&D per capita than San Jose.

Detroit also has a lot more $$ going out the door than San Jose as well. They don't have the luxury of hoarding cash like Apple or Google.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by jayden

Is that why the population and the local economy has been in steady decline over the past decade? And let's not even talk about the recession...

It's a complicated situation.

I will say, the Detroit area is entirely at fault for relying solely on one single industry that would eventually mature and shrink. Because the region has nothing else to fall back on, it is hurt far worse when there's an economic downturn than other cities (such as Atlanta with its exremely diverse economy).

Also, the Auto Industry does have a history of severe mismanagement (especially in America). To be fair, it's not an easy industry to work in. You're at the whim of constantly changing consumer demand for a capital intensive and safety critical product (it's not the same as bean counting someone's investments or engineering iPhones that are pennies on the dollar). Try spending a day in a meeting room with Automotive Engineers and you'll understand. It takes a special type of person to successfully manage Automotive projects, and unfortunately, "special" people are few and far between.

[jayden]

Originally Posted by Chef

Do you have more to offer than an emoji?

I've already offered in a previous post.

The Civil Rights Movement.

[iheartthed]

I guess this thread is asking what it will take for Atlanta to achieve international notoriety? If so, then the answer is obvious. It needs to be known for something. The airport helps but having the world's largest airport is an extremely fluid title. It needs to be known for something more immutable.

A good example is Detroit, which isn't a huge city or an international city but is extremely well known. It is well known because of 1) the global auto industry, which lead to its other well known quality, 2) extreme urban decay. Another good example is Las Vegas, which is an even smaller city but is extremely well known for its identity as a gambling mecca.

[harryc]

One thing - the first thing.

Have one, and only one, street named PeachTree ______ .
Seriously how hard is it to come up with unique names.

[JManc]

Anyway, the auto industry might have put Detroit on the map economically but Motown was what put it on the map culturally both here and internationally.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by JManc

Anyway, the auto industry might have put Detroit on the map economically but Motown was what put it on the map culturally both here and internationally.

I agree.

Although, some may argue the idea of owning and driving automobiles has developed into a culture of its own (one that Detroit started & perfected).

[Chef]

Originally Posted by jayden

I've already offered in a previous post.

The Civil Rights Movement.

I mostly meant art, music, literature and film.