Dense Areas Outside CBDs in American Cities / Dense Suburbs

[cjreisen]

Originally Posted by The North One

This is the first time I replied to you, try not to throw a tantrum.

Maybe don't throw the word European around when you don't know what you're talking about? There are major differences between your examples, even calling it a "modern version" is a stretch.

Dude, at least 40 posts from others have showcased what we're looking for. It's not that hard. And tell me what the differences are. The description is 5-10 story buildings that flank a street on both sides, as the street in Budapest and San Diego both did. Where is your confusion?

[cjreisen]

Originally Posted by The North One

This is the first time I replied to you, try not to throw a tantrum.

Maybe don't throw the word European around when you don't know what you're talking about? There are major differences between your examples, even calling it a "modern version" is a stretch.

How about this?

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6189...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@59.9122...7i13312!8i6656

PLEASE don't tell me these aren't similar. Seattle to Oslo

[subterranean]

Originally Posted by cjreisen

Dude, at least 40 posts from others have showcased what we're looking for. It's not that hard. And tell me what the differences are. The description is 5-10 story buildings that flank a street on both sides, as the street in Budapest and San Diego both did. Where is your confusion?

Don't mind her, this is sort of just the way she communicates. You get used to it.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by cjreisen

How about this?

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6189...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@59.9122...7i13312!8i6656

PLEASE don't tell me these aren't similar. Seattle to Oslo

Not even a little bit, lol. Even less so than your first example, it's really not obvious to you?

The Oslo street is much more narrow, there are no setbacks, it's almost a perfect streetwall. The street in Seattle is wider, there is no continuous streetwall it's very broken up, the buildings take up much larger plots and there are huge setbacks. The form is different in every single way. Just because two midrises happen to exist across from each other doesn't suddenly make a street European. Street walls also aren't exclusive to Europe so your US example are all 100% modern American.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by subterranean

Don't mind her, this is sort of just the way she communicates. You get used to it.

Her?

[cjreisen]

Originally Posted by The North One

Not even a little bit, lol. Even less so than your first example, it's really not obvious to you?

The Oslo street is much more narrow, there are no setbacks, it's almost a perfect streetwall. The street in Seattle is wider, there is no continuous streetwall it's very broken up, the buildings take up much larger plots and there are huge setbacks. The form is different in every single way. Just because two midrises happen to exist adjacent to each other doesn't suddenly make a street European. Street walls also aren't exclusive to Europe so your US example are all 100% modern American.

Well there we go, that's the type of criticism I like to hear more, I just want to hear what your objections are. Anywho, I think you're looking too deeply into it. Point is America won't ever have precisely European looking streets. I'm just curious about places that are quasi-close like my examples. Remember 90% of north america is lame, sprawled, suburban style single-family housing. I just want to see dense urban or suburban housing where there are 5-10 story buildings with contiguous streetwalls on both sides of the street.

[subterranean]

Originally Posted by The North One

Her?

Had me fooled.

[dktshb]

Originally Posted by cjreisen

Dude, at least 40 posts from others have showcased what we're looking for. It's not that hard. And tell me what the differences are. The description is 5-10 story buildings that flank a street on both sides, as the street in Budapest and San Diego both did. Where is your confusion?

Is this what you're looking for?

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0588...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0588...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.1012...7i13312!8i6656

[ThePhun1]

Originally Posted by cjreisen

Well there we go, that's the type of criticism I like to hear more, I just want to hear what your objections are. Anywho, I think you're looking too deeply into it. Point is America won't ever have precisely European looking streets. I'm just curious about places that are quasi-close like my examples. Remember 90% of north america is lame, sprawled, suburban style single-family housing. I just want to see dense urban or suburban housing where there are 5-10 story buildings with contiguous streetwalls on both sides of the street.

Quebec has some European looking areas, as does Boston, whose street grid is as European as it gets or certainly is different than what you find in most of North America. Ditto for Washington and to a lesser extent Philly. I don't know enough about Annapolis but I'd assume the same for it based on the little I know.

[10023]

Most of NYC outside of Midtown and Downtown.

[chris08876]

LA County I think is a good example. Its a giant county city for the post part bar the desert/mountains facing the North East and North.

But its a continuous vista of density. A massive urban grey blob when viewed from 39000 ft.

[10023]

Originally Posted by chris08876

LA County I think is a good example. Its a giant county city for the post part bar the desert/mountains facing the North East and North.

But its a continuous vista of density. A massive urban grey blob when viewed from 39000 ft.

What? No.

LA County is mostly single-family housing. It is nothing like what the OP is asking for. In fact outside of DTLA and a few blocks in Santa Monica and Long Beach, what he's asking for doesn't exist at all in LA County. Buildings of any size only exist in narrow bands along major arterial roads, which is pretty much the opposite of the typical European urban form.

Originally Posted by ChargerCarl

All of Los Angeles/Orange County

For example, here is where I live in OC:

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.6607...7i13312!8i6656

Are people just not reading the OP?

That is suburbia. It's not exurban sprawl, but it's not what the thread starter is asking for. There isn't a single 5-10 story building on that street, let alone spanning multiple blocks.

[cjreisen]

Originally Posted by dktshb

Is this what you're looking for?

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0588...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0588...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.1012...7i13312!8i6656

No that all looks pretty American, it's not contiguous enough, I like more uniform height 5-10 story buildings that create a contiguous streetwall close to the sidewalk. Here are some California examples from each of its three major cities, San Francisco being the best:

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0487...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7728...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7746...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7115...7i13312!8i6656

[cjreisen]

Originally Posted by 10023

What? No.

LA County is mostly single-family housing. It is nothing like what the OP is asking for. In fact outside of DTLA and a few blocks in Santa Monica and Long Beach, what he's asking for doesn't exist at all in LA County. Buildings of any size only exist in narrow bands along major arterial roads, which is pretty much the opposite of the typical European urban form.



Are people just not reading the OP?

That is suburbia. It's not exurban sprawl, but it's not what the thread starter is asking for. There isn't a single 5-10 story building on that street, let alone spanning multiple blocks.

THANK YOU! I'd say about half of people are understanding. But to be fair I'd prefer new construction as well. So examples in North Chicago and New York as a whole aren't as interesting to me. My main focus is how American cities are densifying and creating modern equivalents of the European archtype. Just because personally I think this is the most livable style of urban development, so I like seeing American cities sway in that direction to create medium density areas that are vast. Dallas, Denver, San Francisco, Seattle, Portland, and Chicago seem to be the cities where it's most prevalent. But as we've seen, Oregon's suburbs are doing a surprising job at leading the charge too. That's the type if insight I like seeing.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by cjreisen

No that all looks pretty American, it's not contiguous enough, I like more uniform height 5-10 story buildings that create a contiguous streetwall close to the sidewalk. Here are some California examples from each of its three major cities, San Francisco being the best:

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0487...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7728...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7746...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7115...7i13312!8i6656

Those don't seem to be good examples either; they only go for a few blocks. I clicked on the links, and then I spun the camera around... I was expecting to see seemingly longer blocks of 5-story buildings all around.

I can show the same type of select developments in other parts of LA County.

[cjreisen]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

Those don't seem to be good examples either; they only go for a few blocks. I clicked on the links, and then I spun the camera around... I was expecting to see seemingly longer blocks of 5-story buildings all around.

I can show the same type of select developments in other parts of LA County.

That's the precise point, is that it barely exists in America, and where there are 5-10 story buildings in that capacity, it's usually a couple blocks and that's it. That's why I reached out to see bigger examples. Please provide examples if you know any.

[mhays]

"A couple blocks" would understate things. Many suburban examples are in the "several blocks" category at least. Some of my local examples including Downtown Redmond and Downtown Kirkland, both growing quickly right now including new residential units by the thousands. Downtown Bellevue has some sizable areas of midrise density too, in addition to highrises. Also some other random nodes in the eastern and northern suburbs (more than the south) have reached a critical mass. These aren't Dallas Doughnuts.

[cjreisen]

Originally Posted by mhays

"A couple blocks" would understate things. Many suburban examples are in the "several blocks" category at least. Some of my local examples including Downtown Redmond and Downtown Kirkland, both growing quickly right now including new residential units by the thousands. Downtown Bellevue has some sizable areas of midrise density too, in addition to highrises. Also some other random nodes in the eastern and northern suburbs (more than the south) have reached a critical mass. These aren't Dallas Doughnuts.

Can you provide examples? I'd love to see. I'm most interested in intersections that are surrounded on all four corners by this style of development.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by cjreisen

Can you please provide streetview of the areas you mention that are most notable? I'd be interested to see, Evanston is pretty similar to what I was thinking.

Evanston

Church Street
https://goo.gl/maps/u3WbfmheeWu

Benson at Clark
https://goo.gl/maps/7oHLiQQkUWP2

Oak Park
(some of Oak Park's are so new they aren't on streetview yet)
Lake Street
https://goo.gl/maps/2aKu2DEaGF42

East Hyde park

53rd Street
https://goo.gl/maps/wAXGPxbZgWD2
https://goo.gl/maps/4cZdNtqnpKS2
https://goo.gl/maps/LrwfjU2NrUC2

51st Street
https://goo.gl/maps/4Ctgt4p1dtn

East End
https://goo.gl/maps/uEWZdht3JzE2

[cjreisen]

^^ While all nice areas none of these really fit the criteria I mentioned though. That being 5-10 story buildings that meet the street, think of both sides of the street having builfings with no setbacks that nearly mirror each other in height. I just mean European style density, but everything you showed was nice, but distinctly north american style.

Here are some other exmples of what I mean in chicago:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8684...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8821...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8813...7i13312!8i6656

Chicago is probably a bad city to look for this in though since it's grid and lack of surface lots isn't really codusive to the "courtyard style building" that typically allows that style of density.

The link below is to the panther island plan in Fort Worth, which shows the development style I'd ideally like to see, though it barely exists in the US:

http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net...8949469d_b.jpg