SAN FRANCISCO | Salesforce Transit Center - Page 153

Busy Bee · #**3041** Posted **Nov 14, 2017, 2:03 AM**

^What?

A subway in LA, a subway in the East Bay, light rail projects in LA and SF, and high speed rail under construction in the Central Valley.

So, that's a "conservative antiquated state that will never be serious about rail"?

O K

mt_climber13 · #**3042** Posted **Nov 14, 2017, 3:01 AM**

California needs much more than "a subway" here and there every few decades. Light rail projects in SF? Where? There's nothing u/c right now.. are you talking about "BRT?" That's rapid bus transit. High speed rail through central valley, ok that's a start. That's 50 years overdue.
Maybe you haven't traveled to cities or countries with robust subway and rail systems, because you would know that what is in California (and what is planned) is inadequate to say the least.

5th or 6th largest economy in the world, and look at our nearest competitors: France and Japan. How many subways, high speed trains, and commuter trains do they have and are currently under construction? There's no comparison.

Roads rule.

For this state to be serious about rail and transit we need 10- 20 subways in addition to light rail under construction right now throughout each of SF, Oakland, LA, Sacramento, San Diego, and San Jose. There are no good options for commuting between the various regions of California besides driving. Amtrak is decent for going from Sac to Oakland, but if you want to go to SF you have to transfer to a bus and wait in bay bridge traffic.

Yes, the state is incredibly conservative. Main reasons for the failures of HSR is wealthy suburbanites filing lawsuits because they don't want mass transit going through their towns. NIMBYism prevails in California. Didn't the BART expansion to SFO get delayed because of a newt, or some other reptile? You can stop infrastructure and construction projects with any complaint, and anybody can do it. Yes, the system is incredibly antiquated.

Pedestrian · #**3043** Posted **Nov 14, 2017, 6:01 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mt_climber13

California needs much more than "a subway" here and there every few decades. Light rail projects in SF? Where? There's nothing u/c right now.. are you talking about "BRT?"

He’s probably talking about Phase 2 of the Muni T line aka the Central Subway, construction of which has been hard to miss for several years now if you’ve been downtown.

But the best evidence that CA is a relative leader among states on rail transport is the state subsidization provided to routes like the Capital Corridor, San Joaquin, ACE and Caltrain. Only a minority of states provide state funding to intercity rail like this and few of those provide it to as many lines as CA (I believe there are several more in the southern part of the state).

Zerton · #**3044** Posted **Nov 14, 2017, 7:58 PM**

Reminds me of a cruise ship.

observatory · #**3045** Posted **Nov 25, 2017, 10:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zerton

Reminds me of a cruise ship.

I took the train to downtown Chicago a few times in my life and boy I wish we had something magnificent like that in SF! I like the more traditional majestic beaux art style of the Chicago station. Of course, I'd be happy if we could just get trains into the new downtown SF station! And wouldn't it be grand to get on a train in downtown San Francisco and ride to Chicago and beyond (for that matter to get off of a train in downtown SF)? Wish we could put back the tracks on the Bay Bridge that used to be there from the old Key system.

Pedestrian · #**3046** Posted **Nov 26, 2017, 12:05 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by observatory

I took the train to downtown Chicago a few times in my life and boy I wish we had something magnificent like that in SF! I like the more traditional majestic beaux art style of the Chicago station. Of course, I'd be happy if we could just get trains into the new downtown SF station! And wouldn't it be grand to get on a train in downtown San Francisco and ride to Chicago and beyond (for that matter to get off of a train in downtown SF)? Wish we could put back the tracks on the Bay Bridge that used to be there from the old Key system.

The Bay Bridge never carried intercity trains. So it was always necessary to cross the Bay--once on a ferry--to catch a train to Chicago. And that's the reason SF never had a grand train station.

The best chance for bringing trains headed eastward into SF is to restore the Dumbarton crossing. And if there are Capital Corridor trains using it, then there could be Chicago trains because those use the same tracks as far as Sacramento.

Quote:

Proposed Dumbarton rail bridge could be first transbay railroad crossing since BART tube
By ERIN BALDASSARI | ebaldassari@bayareanewsgroup.com | Bay Area News Group
PUBLISHED: August 14, 2017 at 6:30 am | UPDATED: August 14, 2017 at 1:23 pm

SAN CARLOS — For roughly two decades, transportation planners and local leaders have advocated for a rail crossing along the Dumbarton Bridge corridor that would connect Caltrain in the South Bay to the Altamont Corridor Express and Capitol Corridor in the East Bay.

And for roughly two decades, the idea has gathered dust.

But a Facebook-funded and SamTrans-led study set to be released Tuesday is again floating the idea of a southern rail crossing, and local leaders are hopeful that this time, the project’s fate will be different.

That’s because over the past decade or so jobs have become increasingly concentrated in the mid-Peninsula with housing increasingly moving further east from the Tri-Valley into places like Tracy, Stockton and Modesto, said Michael Cunningham, a public policy expert for the Bay Area Council . . . .

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/08/1...nce-bart-tube/

observatory · #**3047** Posted **Nov 26, 2017, 12:51 AM**

Appreciate your take on the subject Pedestrian. Thanks also for the article link. Oh, how awesome that would be to finally cross the bay by train directly into downtown SF!

emanon · #**3048** Posted **Nov 29, 2017, 5:31 PM**

I’m not sure how you’re defining “intercity trains” but at one time three different rail companies ran trains on the lower deck of the Bay Bridge to the Transbay Terminal. All of these were intercity trains. East Bay Electric Lines (a unit of the Southern Pacific Railroad) had daily runs from Berkeley, Oakland, and Alameda to San Francisco; Key System trains ran daily between Oakland, Piedmont, Berkeley, and San Francisco; and Sacramento Northern Railroad trains ran three trains each weekday between Chico, Marysville-Yuba City, Sacramento, Pittsburg, Concord, Oakland, and San Francisco.

Pedestrian · #**3049** Posted **Nov 29, 2017, 7:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by emanon

I’m not sure how you’re defining “intercity trains” but at one time three different rail companies ran trains on the lower deck of the Bay Bridge to the Transbay Terminal. All of these were intercity trains. East Bay Electric Lines (a unit of the Southern Pacific Railroad) had daily runs from Berkeley, Oakland, and Alameda to San Francisco; Key System trains ran daily between Oakland, Piedmont, Berkeley, and San Francisco; and Sacramento Northern Railroad trains ran three trains each weekday between Chico, Marysville-Yuba City, Sacramento, Pittsburg, Concord, Oakland, and San Francisco.

I mean like to Chicago (as was mentioned) . . . or Seattle or anywhere outside the Bay Area. This was regional transit that ran on the Bay Bridge. "Light rail". Not heavy long distance rail.

By the way, because it's on the other side of the Bay where heavy rail did reach, Oakland's old main station was pretty nice--smallish but pretty nice in its day:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Oakl...nM4eheU01cjyM:

observatory · #**3050** Posted **Dec 2, 2017, 9:14 PM**

For the ultimate day dream wish list (totally unlikely in our lifetimes if ever):

Trains from all points east (NYC, Chicago, etc.) coming into the new Salesforce Terminal OVER the Bay Bridge on the TOP view level of the bridge (with outbound trains to all eastern points on the bottom level). OK that's my unrealistic dream (sigh).

fimiak · #**3051** Posted **Dec 3, 2017, 7:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by observatory

For the ultimate day dream wish list (totally unlikely in our lifetimes if ever):

Trains from all points east (NYC, Chicago, etc.) coming into the new Salesforce Terminal OVER the Bay Bridge on the TOP view level of the bridge (with outbound trains to all eastern points on the bottom level). OK that's my unrealistic dream (sigh).

My preference is a tunnel from Salesforce Terminal to West Alameda / Former Naval area (then build it up), then another stop at Jack London Sq. Final intersection is with Lake Merritt to connect to BART. This way the train will intersect with Amtrak and do everything you asked, while also giving a 24/7 tunnel to Oakland that can be used in lieu of BART to get to different areas. Oakland A's move to W. Alameda and have a dedicated subway stop from SF and Oakland.

Busy Bee · #**3052** Posted **Dec 3, 2017, 10:14 PM**

A second Bay tunnel is the answer. With tunnel tech the way it is, dedicated capacity for BART and intercity/long-distance rail including Caltrain to East Bay could be accomplished.

observatory · #**3053** Posted **Dec 9, 2017, 8:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

A second Bay tunnel is the answer. With tunnel tech the way it is, dedicated capacity for BART and intercity/long-distance rail including Caltrain to East Bay could be accomplished.

I'm with you guys. A second transbay tunnel to Salesforce Transit Center is the answer. Now rally the troops and call your representatives

I do recall those summers taking the train into Chicago - those last couple of miles or so were indeed underground. I loved the sensation of getting off the train into a majestic terminal and then going outside and be awed by "suddenly" being in the middle of a forest of high rises. (Closest comparison of this in SF is coming into The City and then getting on one of those hard to find working escalators and finding yourself in the middle of a bustling downtown with the highest towers in NorCal.)

Pedestrian · #**3054** Posted **Dec 9, 2017, 9:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by observatory

For the ultimate day dream wish list (totally unlikely in our lifetimes if ever):

Trains from all points east (NYC, Chicago, etc.) coming into the new Salesforce Terminal OVER the Bay Bridge on the TOP view level of the bridge (with outbound trains to all eastern points on the bottom level). OK that's my unrealistic dream (sigh).

As I said, there has never been HEAVY rail on the Bay Bridge and I'm not at all sure it's designed to carry the weight. The new east span, of course, was not designed for any sort of rail.

timbad · #**3055** Posted **Dec 10, 2017, 7:16 AM**

inside

Pedestrian · #**3056** Posted **Dec 14, 2017, 6:59 PM**

Quote:

Transbay Transit Center to see first bus line Dec. 26
By Michael Cabanatuan
Updated 4:42 pm, Wednesday, December 13, 2017

The new Transbay Transit Center probably won’t open until June, but the first bus service from the new transportation hub will start the day after Christmas.
Muni’s decision to run some of its buses on the 5-Fulton route from the terminal’s street-level bus plaza, beginning Dec. 26, is part of an effort to break in the sprawling new transit hub.

The partial service start also appears to be an effort to satisfy a federal loan requirement that the terminal reach “substantial completion” and begin Muni service by the end of 2017.

The first buses to pull out of the still-under-construction terminal will be on short-run routes bound for the Richmond District. Instead of going all the way to Ocean Beach, they turn around at Sixth Avenue and Fulton Street. Those buses run from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. on weekdays . . . .

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/articl...e-12428775.php