Maricopa County Downtown Court Tower

[HX_Guy]

Back to the Courts Tower, I gotta say I love how informative the website is. I hope they keep it up as the projects moves along.
They have a section on current activies and upcoming activities (such as tower groundbreaking in April).
It looks like the plan is to have the building complete in November 2011, though I'm guessing it will be topped out much sooner, probably early 2011?

They also have a link for a webcam but it's not currently active.

[HX_Guy]

Great...looks like another project will be held up in court bullshit...

Sheriff investigates Board's $340-million court tower project

16 comments by Yvonne Wingett - Mar. 27, 2009 07:04 PM
The Arizona Republic

The Maricopa County Sheriff's Office and the County Attorney's Office are investigating the Board of Supervisors and top county administrators as part of a probe into a planned $340-million court tower project.

A joint statement from the two offices on Friday is the first public acknowledgement they are conducting an investigation into "funding and contracts" for the tower.

However, according to the statement, the Superior Court has blocked a grand-jury investigation. Thomas' office has appealed.

The tower has been planned for years, and the supervisors last year decided to move forward with the project. It would add 32 courtrooms to downtown Phoenix.

The sheriff has submitted public requests for documents related to the project, and communication between county officials and public-relations and consulting firms - likely as part of the investigation.

In the statement, Arpaio said the investigation would continue.

Tom Irvine, a private attorney representing the board responded: "This is a grand jury matter that Maricopa County will comment on next week when we are sure that the secrecy veil has been lifted."

[Tranquility]

Originally Posted by bwonger06

Realistically, I think we are not that far from a nice looking downtown. With the court towers taking up that dirt lot in the lower middle of the picture and hopefully CS building up the second tower on the place formerly known as PSP, there are about two more lots (across the street from the current CS towers) that are prime for infill. Combined that with JED, the area can starting looking great. But it might look like our hope hinges on Collier to build some of those extra parcels.

I'm not a fan of the court tower personally. It is way too expensive for its size and could of been built elsewhere for a lower cost if it even needed to be built at all; we do have a perfectly functioning courthouse a couple blocks over. And a courthouse doesn't really scream out excitement, they should of held out for a private developer to make something interesting of that prime location. The court tower is only going to be about 250 feet anyway which is fairly unimpressive.

[HooverDam]

^You mean like how landbankers have held out for decades for the right developer to come along and put a great tower on their parcel? A bird in the hand is greater than two in the bush after all.

The court tower isn't an exciting project like JSED or CityScape, but its necessary (not necessarily for today, but for future growth) and Im glad it'll be happening during the recession. It'll keep some construction workers employed and feed all of our silly hobby.

And while 250ft may not be overly impressive, remember the Westward Ho is only 208 and is still a damn fine looking building. With as little high-rise construction as we've had historically, Ill always be thankful for anything we get over 200 feet.

[combusean]

Originally Posted by Tranquility

I'm not a fan of the court tower personally. It is way too expensive for its size and could of been built elsewhere for a lower cost if it even needed to be built at all; we do have a perfectly functioning courthouse a couple blocks over. And a courthouse doesn't really scream out excitement, they should of held out for a private developer to make something interesting of that prime location. The court tower is only going to be about 250 feet anyway which is fairly unimpressive.

I agree that it's probably too expensive tho I'm not one to judge costs but it's still worth building there.

The Court Tower ties in with all the existing jail facilities underground, enabling secure prisoner transport. The fact that it is next to a jail makes it a horrid location for anything but a government use anyways, so good luck holding out for a private developer when there are far better sites.

They are building the tower for additional courtroom capacity and replacing nothing...tho those buildings are ugly as sin for being perfectly good, but I digress.

The final height is 289', which is as tall as can be built there anyways due to the airport height limits.

[Tranquility]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

^You mean like how landbankers have held out for decades for the right developer to come along and put a great tower on their parcel? A bird in the hand is greater than two in the bush after all.

The court tower isn't an exciting project like JSED or CityScape, but its necessary (not necessarily for today, but for future growth) and Im glad it'll be happening during the recession. It'll keep some construction workers employed and feed all of our silly hobby.

And while 250ft may not be overly impressive, remember the Westward Ho is only 208 and is still a damn fine looking building. With as little high-rise construction as we've had historically, Ill always be thankful for anything we get over 200 feet.

i admit that Phoenix hasn't had a great history with highrises but you have to admit that Phoenix has had somewhat of a high rise boom in recent years. its not too much of a stretch to think that some private developer would of picked it up eventually. imo id rather wait for something good (and pretty much anything is better than the this) than get something boring and expensive now. and this is probably the worst time to be building it, the state is basically broke. my uncle works for the state and he is being furloughed along with many others. it just seems like a slap in face to be doing this now and for such a steep cost. and im not a fan of the westward ho (blasphemy i know), the antenna is ugly, the rest of it is blah.

[HX_Guy]

Originally Posted by Tranquility

and im not a fan of the westward ho (blasphemy i know), the antenna is ugly, the rest of it is blah.

You're officially nuts.

As for the Courts Tower...what do you mean wait for a private developer? The site was a former parking garage and owned by the State. What did you think could happen...that they would sell it to some private developer who would use their own money to demolish the garage and then build some great tower next to a jail and other government buildings? What sort of la-la land are you living in?

[Tranquility]

Originally Posted by combusean

I agree that it's probably too expensive tho I'm not one to judge costs but it's still worth building there.

The Court Tower ties in with all the existing jail facilities underground, enabling secure prisoner transport. The fact that it is next to a jail makes it a horrid location for anything but a government use anyways, so good luck holding out for a private developer when there are far better sites.

They are building the tower for additional courtroom capacity and replacing nothing...tho those buildings are ugly as sin for being perfectly good, but I digress.

The final height is 289', which is as tall as can be built there anyways due to the airport height limits.

imo its still too expensive. as for the jail, well how about they convert the jail to a courthouse and build a new jail someplace less expensive and less high profile. probably unrealistic, but its just a thought

[combusean]

Originally Posted by Tranquility

i admit that Phoenix hasn't had a great history with highrises but you have to admit that Phoenix has had somewhat of a high rise boom in recent years. its not too much of a stretch to think that some private developer would of picked it up eventually. imo id rather wait for something good (and pretty much anything is better than the this) than get something boring and expensive now. and this is probably the worst time to be building it, the state is basically broke. my uncle works for the state and he is being furloughed along with many others. it just seems like a slap in face to be doing this now and for such a steep cost. and im not a fan of the westward ho (blasphemy i know), the antenna is ugly, the rest of it is blah.

The State is broke, whereas the County has been saving up for *years* to build this thing.

and yes, it is very much of a stretch to think a private developer would have picked this site up.

the boom is also over. I'd be surprised if anything got built after this for another 2 - 3 years at least.

[combusean]

Originally Posted by Tranquility

imo its still too expensive. as for the jail, well how about they convert the jail to a courthouse and build a new jail someplace less expensive and less high profile. probably unrealistic, but its just a thought

Madison Street Jail is under renovations and the 4th Avenue jail is brand new.

The jails and the courthouses are connected to each other underground. You can't have one without the other, which leaves no better place for the tower.

[Tranquility]

Originally Posted by combusean

Madison Street Jail is under renovations and the 4th Avenue jail is brand new.

The jails and the courthouses are connected to each other underground. You can't have one without the other, which leaves no better place for the tower.

well its still way too expensive for its size

[Don B.]

^ And you base this assessment based on what particularly vast breadth of knowledge?

Not that my knowledge is necessarily any greater than anyone else's here, but I don't have any idea how much it costs to build a first class courts tower, complete with the appropriately equipped courtrooms with sufficient technology and security for all to effectively promulgate justice. I can tell you that some courtrooms in this state are pretty much a joke, such as having the 90-100 members of the summoned jury pool standing partially in the hallway while they strain to listen to the judge's instructions at the beginning of voir dire. I know there are security considerations, especially in today's day and age. The judge and his or her staff should be safe and well protected. I know that level of protection costs money. I also know the building is being built much bigger than what is needed right now to accomodate future growth of Maricopa County, so that a new building won't be needed for half a century or more.

So, what nuggets of wisdom can you impart to us mere mortals to justify your sweeping generalization that it is "way too expensive...?"

--don

[scottkag]

The county should save money by letting private developers stuff their pockets with taxpayer money? Interesting idea, explain to the rest of us how this would work...

[HooverDam]

More on the court tower situation:
http://www.azcentral.com/community/m...tmove0526.html

Mesa courts will move to Phoenix
Criminal-division cases to be heard in centralized area to cut expenses
22 comments by Jim Walsh - May. 26, 2009 12:00 AM
The Arizona Republic
Maricopa County's top judge plans to move all Superior Court criminal divisions based in Mesa to Phoenix by the end of this year to improve efficiency, reversing a trend toward bringing justice closer to residents.

Presiding Judge Barbara Rodriguez Mundellsaid the move will save money spent on transporting inmates from Phoenix jails to Mesa and reduce the risk of escape.

"It's money. I don't think anyone envisioned the recession we're having," she said.

"If you keep it downtown, you can enhance public safety and cut costs."

Although long-term plans have called for moving the Mesa criminal courts to Phoenix in 2012 when a controversial criminal-court tower opens, Mundell's plan to accelerate the move caught County Attorney Andrew Thomas off-guard.

Thomas said he has no room downtown for the 45 prosecutors now based in Mesa.

He added that the regional courts in Mesa work efficiently and that he is concerned by the inconvenience to East Valley victims, police and witnesses.

"This affects the whole community," Thomas said. "It will cause havoc. For our office, for crime victims, it's a shame."

The Southeast Regional Court Center in Mesa opened in 1991. The Superior Court followed up by opening other regional facilities in northeast Phoenix and Surprise, but those operations do not have criminal divisions.

Mundell said that consolidating the criminal courts downtown will allow the centralization of interpreters and court reporters.

It also will create a larger pool of judges to expedite trials under a new scheduling system, she said.

But Thomas said Mundell could get the same efficiencies through administrative changes without moving anyone.

"Not only is the system working well, but these changes will be damaging and will affect the lives of thousands of people," Thomas said.

Sheriff Joe Arpaio was skeptical about cost savings from consolidation.

"They're building a plush, $350 million court tower. I wonder what the real reason is. Is it to justify that?" he said.

Superior Court handles felonies. The move does not affect county Justice Courts and Municipal Courts, which handle misdemeanors.

Mesa's southeast courthouse currently has five criminal judges, while 22 are based downtown, although several are designated for special assignment.

Superior Court statistics show that the Mesa facility accounted for 25 percent of felony-case filings during fiscal 2008, with 10,690 cases filed in Mesa and 42,611 filed countywide.

The move starts in July with the retirement of Judge Silvia Arellano.

Her Mesa criminal division will be transferred to Phoenix. Arellano will be replaced by a civil or family-court judge in Mesa.

The judicial game of musical chairs will continue later this year, with family and civil court judges in Phoenix swapping courtrooms with the five remaining criminal-court judges in Mesa.

A criminal Regional Court Center and Early Disposition Court will remain open in Mesa to handle low-level felonies and drug cases.

[kaneui]

Originally Posted by Tranquility

imo its still too expensive. as for the jail, well how about they convert the jail to a courthouse and build a new jail someplace less expensive and less high profile. probably unrealistic, but its just a thought

Don't know why new courthouses are so expensive, but a proposed federal courthouse in downtown L.A. has been put on hold due to spiraling cost estimates, now at over $1.1B for a 23-story, 1M s.f. building with 41 courtrooms. Until more funds are secured or the project is scaled back, the 3.6-acre site sits vacant.

So in comparison, the $347M cost of Maricopa County's 16-story, 690k s.f. courthouse with 22 courtrooms might not be so out of line.


P.S. - and Pima County is still waiting for funds to build a $120M, 330k s.f. courthouse in downtown Tucson.

[combusean]

With the construction cam up, it was time to make this thread finally.

http://www.mcdot.maricopa.gov/cam.htm

Carry on!

[somethingfast]

that building really has no business costing $340 million. wtf? another fat, short, brown building for phoenix, yay.

[plinko]

^You guys wailing on about the price understand that government office type buildings (particularly courthouses) are amongst the most expensive of urban building types to build right?

Requires oversized floor plates and heights (thus structure), extra security measures and program, fully outfitted offices and courtrooms (as opposed to a 'warm shell and core'), etc. And this particular structure requires alot of underground infrastructure.

A question, where is the funding coming from? Is it just coming right off the top of the County General Fund or did they sell bonds at some point? Or is it like Phoenix City Hall, which was funded through a couple of public mechanisms?

It's an important point, because it might be that this isn't just 'your tax dollars at work', in which case...who cares if it costs $350M?

[combusean]

In putting together the thread I noticed that this was also a LEED Silver project. Compared to the LA court tower I'd say we're getting a deal.

I don't really have a problem with short and fat--they're building it as tall as they can, and for as fat as it is it will definitely have an impact on the skyline.

The County was saving for a long time to get this thing ready, axing $86 million in projects elsewhere. I think we are extremely lucky to have this built down here.

[combusean]

Mesa mayor to fight court's move to Phoenix

2 comments by Jim Walsh - May. 28, 2009 10:13 AM
The Arizona Republic

Mesa Mayor Scott Smith doesn't want East Valley residents to get stuck paying for the closing of Maricopa County Superior Court's criminal divisions through extra travel costs and inconvenience.

Smith plans to fight against plans to move the criminal divisions to Phoenix by the end of this year by meeting with Presiding Judge Barbara Rodriguez Mundell and the East Valley's two representatives on the Board of Supervisors.

"I think it would be a huge disservice to the East Valley for these courts to move," Smith said. "It's shifting the costs and burden to individual citizens."

He said the size of Maricopa County alone justifies a full-service courthouse, including criminal courts.

"We're a huge county. The citizens are not served when the services are so far away," Smith said.

But Mundell's not budging, saying the move is necessary to improve efficiency and save money on transporting defendants from Phoenix jails to the Mesa courthouse for hearings on felony cases.

"I would love to have criminal in all of our facilities," in Mesa, northeast Phoenix and Surprise, she said, but county can't afford it.

The county also is building a controversial $343 million criminal tower in downtown Phoenix that is scheduled to open in 2012.

Mundell briefed Chandler Police Chief Sherry Kiyler, Gilbert Police Chief Tim Dorn, and Assistant Tempe Police Chief Angel Carbajal on her plans Tuesday during a meeting at the Mesa courthouse. The media was not allowed inside.

The East Valley police chiefs said that moving the courts to Phoenix is inherently inconvenient for officers, forcing them to drive further and taking up more time.

But they also praised Mundell for working with them to limit the disruption. Among the issues under discussion are finding parking spaces for East Valley officers in Phoenix and the possibility of faxing police reports rather than delivering them.

"Are we glad to have our folks have to drive to Phoenix? Of course we're not," Kiyler said, but she also understands the need for budget cuts during the recession.

"We'll make it work, that's what we'll do," she said.

Dorn said he appreciated Mundell coming to Mesa to meet with him and to make the move as painless as possible.

"Obviously, it's going to be somewhat of an inconvenience for us," Dorn said.

Five criminal divisions that handle felony cases would move from Mesa to Phoenix by the end of this year. They would trade courtrooms with family and civil division judges who would move to Mesa.

Built in 1991, the Southeast courthouse was intended as full-service, one-stop shopping for East Valley residents to avoid the long trip to Phoenix.

The facility also includes the second busiest Clerk of Courts office in the Valley, where residents get marriage licenses and passports, a Recorder's Office that offers early voting, and a law library.

The clerk's office will be closed next week for renovations, spokesman Aaron Nash said.

Former Supervisor Tom Freestone said he worked for 2 ½ years to get the Mesa court facility authorized. He said East Valley residents already have paid for the Mesa building and that it should be used for its intended purpose.

"None of this makes sense," Freestone said. "It doesn't measure up to the service that people paid for and deserve," he said. "We're here to serve the people, not make ourselves comfortable."

Roger Howard, of Gilbert, a juror, said his service is much easier in Mesa than Phoenix. The shorter drive and half-day trial schedule allowed Howard to continue working, rather than fighting rush hour traffic getting to Phoenix and back.

"How much inconvenience are they willing to throw on us?" Howard said. "That's a terrible burden to drive from Gilbert to Phoenix for jury duty."

For East Valley crime victims, the move represents more inconvenience, but also new courtrooms in the tower that are being designed as victim-friendly, said Mischa Hepner, an attorney with Arizona Voice for Crime Victims.

"I've had clients who live in the East Valley and they don't want to mess with downtown parking," she said.

But the designs for the new tower include separate rooms where victims can chose to watch trials on closed-circuit television. Victims also can walk to the podium to testify without passing the families of defendants, reducing the possibility of friction.

"It will be much less stressful for them" to attend court hearings at the new tower, Hepner said.

Soooo much whining about parking and driving. Ridiculous. The only valid complaint here is the officers' time. Everyone else can take the train.