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  #2361  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2021, 8:08 PM
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Originally Posted by wave46 View Post
After Greyhound disbanded their national service, Northwestern Ontario had very limited bus service. Instead of reinstating the Northlander train to parallel an existing bus service in Northeastern Ontario, they decided to expand their bus network.

The right decision IMO.

I've no idea if Greyhound is ever coming back though in the rest of Ontario.
Greyhound left their terminal in Ottawa, and AFAIK we still don’t know where it is going to be relocated. They may keep their Toronto/Montreal routes, but I am not so sure about the rest.
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  #2362  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2021, 8:34 PM
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I would honestly like to see VIA fill the Greyhound gap, at least in part. It would turn a lot of rail stations into intermodal hubs and would be complimentary in terms of ridership for both rail and bus. Not to mention the potential associated with simplifying the trip planning and ticket purchasing for travelers requiring multi-leg trips.
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  #2363  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2021, 4:39 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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Originally Posted by le calmar View Post
Greyhound left their terminal in Ottawa, and AFAIK we still don’t know where it is going to be relocated. They may keep their Toronto/Montreal routes, but I am not so sure about the rest.
Toronto-Montreal is megabus (which seems to still be operating).

I think the problem greyhound had even before COVID is GO poached a lot of their most popular routes (Kitchener, Peterborough, Niagara Falls).
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  #2364  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2021, 4:42 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
Toronto-Montreal is megabus (which seems to still be operating).

I think the problem greyhound had even before COVID is GO poached a lot of their most popular routes (Kitchener, Peterborough, Niagara Falls).
That and Greyhound had a crappy product. The terminal in Toronto wasn't co-located with GO. And the service onboard wasn't that different from GO. And no integration of fare payment in the post-Presto world. It's a lot of little things that add up.
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  #2365  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2021, 4:43 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
That and Greyhound had a crappy product. The terminal in Toronto wasn't co-located with GO. And the service onboard wasn't that different from GO. And no integration of fare payment in the post-Presto world. It's a lot of little things that add up.
True
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  #2366  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2021, 5:03 PM
wave46 wave46 is offline
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
That and Greyhound had a crappy product. The terminal in Toronto wasn't co-located with GO. And the service onboard wasn't that different from GO. And no integration of fare payment in the post-Presto world. It's a lot of little things that add up.
Can the GO terminal accommodate Greyhound? The Toronto Bus Terminal is seemingly pretty full and has decent connections to public transit.

I also don't see why Presto matters as Greyhound focuses on longer-haul.

Nobody takes Greyhound for the service level.
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  #2367  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2021, 7:25 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
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Originally Posted by wave46 View Post
I also don't see why Presto matters as Greyhound focuses on longer-haul.
It's just added friction that diminishes from the customer experience. In a region where so many use Presto and are probably connecting from/to a service using Presto, this is just one more point of differentiation they failed againsr GO.


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Nobody takes Greyhound for the service level.
True. But my point is that there's no differentiation at all against GO. In fact, it's easier and cheaper to just use GO.
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  #2368  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2021, 7:09 PM
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Originally Posted by wave46 View Post
Can the GO terminal accommodate Greyhound? The Toronto Bus Terminal is seemingly pretty full and has decent connections to public transit
How many busses a day did Greyhound have in/out of Toronto prior to COVID? From what I have seen, the new GO bus terminal looks a lot larger than the old one, so I would hope it could handle the extra buses.

Regardless, if Greyhound did pull out of Ontario/Quebec, I expect megabus would take over the remaining routes on the TOM corridor (competing with VIA on price) and Ontario Northland the northern routes (they already have buses parallel to Greyhound running to/from Sudbury from/to both Ottawa and Toronto).

Trying to bring it back to VIA Rail, I noticed on Ontario Northland's schedule that while they are still using Ottawa Central Station (the bus depot), they also continue east to the VIA Rail station (plus the Ottawa Hospital and CHEO). Eastbound it isn't terribly useful as with the current schedule you would be arriving after 11:00pm, but westbound it leaves the VIA Rail Station at 10:05 am.
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  #2369  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2021, 11:04 PM
Urban_Sky Urban_Sky is offline
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
How many busses a day did Greyhound have in/out of Toronto prior to COVID? From what I have seen, the new GO bus terminal looks a lot larger than the old one, so I would hope it could handle the extra buses.
You can find the schedules of the last two years here:
https://extranet.greyhound.com/revsu...d/pageset.html
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  #2370  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2021, 2:46 AM
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manny_santos manny_santos is offline
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Originally Posted by Urban_Sky View Post
You can find the schedules of the last two years here:
https://extranet.greyhound.com/revsu...d/pageset.html
Thanks for that - looks like they didn’t have very many routes left:

- Toronto-Sudbury
- Ottawa-Sudbury
- Kingston-Ottawa
- Ottawa-Montreal
- Toronto-Peterborough-Ottawa
- Toronto-Belleville-Ottawa
- Toronto-Kitchener
- Toronto-Niagara-Buffalo (continuing to New York)
- Toronto-London-Detroit (continuing to Chicago)
- Toronto-Kitchener-London
- Toronto-Hamilton-London
- Toronto-Barrie-Owen Sound
- Peterborough-Pembroke

The first two of those routes are also served by Ontario Northland, and the routes from Toronto to several locations are served by GO. VIA also serves some of these areas.

I could see GO extending some services to replace various Greyhound services to Toronto; I would also not be surprised to see Megabus expand its services to Ottawa from Montreal, Kingston and Toronto. Greyhound USA could still provide some level of service across the border from Buffalo and Detroit; up until the pandemic they did just that from Vancouver to Seattle.

The Peterborough-Pembroke route services quite a few communities such as Bancroft and Barry’s Bay, but I can’t see it being profitable for a private operator. That could be a good addition for Ontario Northland, which already services Pembroke from Ottawa and North Bay.

There are numerous other routes that were previously served by private operators but have been abandoned over the years. For example there was a bus from London to Owen Sound at one time with stops throughout Midwestern Ontario operated by the now-defunct Aboutown Transportation (which also was a taxi company in London).
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  #2371  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2021, 12:39 AM
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JHikka JHikka is offline
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Yonah Freemark
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Amtrak's response to the Biden infra plan:
http://media.amtrak.com/wp-content/u...-Statement.pdf

Proposes:
-30+ new routes
-20+ enhanced existing routes
-20m more annual riders
-Better service to cities like HOU, ATL, Cincy
-New service to unserved cities like Las Vegas, Nashville, Columbus, Phoenix


https://twitter.com/yfreemark/status...90375854219265



Amtrak is (still) proposing an Amtrak line between Detroit and Toronto through SW Ontario, effectively extending the Wolverine from Chicago to Toronto. Proposals from Amtrak in 2019 say that VIA could control the service from either Windsor or Walkerville. Hurdles include a new border processing facility, "slot" through rail tunnel between Detroit & Windsor, and upgrades to tracks between Windsor Tunnel Portal & Windsor/Walkerville VIA.

Enhanced service typically means increased frequency.

Last edited by JHikka; Apr 1, 2021 at 12:57 AM.
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  #2372  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2021, 12:54 AM
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manny_santos manny_santos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
Yonah Freemark
@yfreemark
Amtrak's response to the Biden infra plan:
http://media.amtrak.com/wp-content/u...-Statement.pdf

Proposes:
-30+ new routes
-20+ enhanced existing routes
-20m more annual riders
-Better service to cities like HOU, ATL, Cincy
-New service to unserved cities like Las Vegas, Nashville, Columbus, Phoenix


https://twitter.com/yfreemark/status...90375854219265



Amtrak is proposing what looks like a new Amtrak line between Detroit and Toronto through SW Ontario. Enhanced service typically means increased frequency.
That is an interesting proposal. I wonder how they would propose to route trains in the Windsor area, as they would not be able to use the existing Windsor VIA station as a stop due to its location in Walkerville. There would likely need to be an additional station in Windsor located near the Michigan Central tunnel.

Also of note is that Detroit’s existing Amtrak station is not downtown, but rather in the city’s north end north of the Ford Freeway. Previous passenger services through the tunnel stopped at the old Michigan Central station a short distance north of the river.
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  #2373  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2021, 12:56 AM
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I know it's not The Corridor™ but it would be nice if there were reasonable trains running between this modest string of towns: Vancouver, Seattle, Portland. Enough trains a day to work for most reasonable trips in either direction without too much planning, speeds of 100-200 km/h, on time. That standard is actually far beyond what is needed to make the train better than driving because I-5 and whatever passes for highways around here are so bad. You can easily get stuck in traffic for hours crossing Seattle.
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  #2374  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2021, 1:13 AM
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I know it's not The Corridor™ but it would be nice if there were reasonable trains running between this modest string of towns: Vancouver, Seattle, Portland. Enough trains a day to work for most reasonable trips in either direction without too much planning, speeds of 100-200 km/h, on time. That standard is actually far beyond what is needed to make the train better than driving because I-5 and whatever passes for highways around here are so bad. You can easily get stuck in traffic for hours crossing Seattle.
I though pre-covid the service had expanded to 3 trains a day during summer and 2 trains a day during winter.

With US pre-clearance at the Pacific Central station it makes for a great service.
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  #2375  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2021, 1:39 AM
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Google says Vancouver to Portland takes 8.5 hours on the train. It is a little over 500 km.

Your options are to leave at 6:35 am and get there at 3:00 pm, give up a whole day leaving at 11:30 and arriving at 9:40, or do an overnight from 5:45 pm to 10:55 am (17h10).

This is all somewhat optimistic since the trains have historically often been late or swapped out for buses. Maybe it's gotten better lately (well, before the now 1 year old travel restrictions).
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  #2376  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2021, 1:56 AM
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I notice that the train to St. Albans Vermont is to be extended to Montreal and further enhancements into Montreal on the existing route. Would this be a possible Montreal-Boston train? I would be up for that trip.
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  #2377  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2021, 2:06 AM
swimmer_spe swimmer_spe is offline
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Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
Google says Vancouver to Portland takes 8.5 hours on the train. It is a little over 500 km.

Your options are to leave at 6:35 am and get there at 3:00 pm, give up a whole day leaving at 11:30 and arriving at 9:40, or do an overnight from 5:45 pm to 10:55 am (17h10).

This is all somewhat optimistic since the trains have historically often been late or swapped out for buses. Maybe it's gotten better lately (well, before the now 1 year old travel restrictions).
What about adding a few more Seattle - Vancouver trains in the day?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
I notice that the train to St. Albans Vermont is to be extended to Montreal and further enhancements into Montreal on the existing route. Would this be a possible Montreal-Boston train? I would be up for that trip.
Sounds like the return of the Montrealer.
Maybe they might look at returning The Gull.
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  #2378  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2021, 5:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
Google says Vancouver to Portland takes 8.5 hours on the train. It is a little over 500 km.

Your options are to leave at 6:35 am and get there at 3:00 pm, give up a whole day leaving at 11:30 and arriving at 9:40, or do an overnight from 5:45 pm to 10:55 am (17h10).

This is all somewhat optimistic since the trains have historically often been late or swapped out for buses. Maybe it's gotten better lately (well, before the now 1 year old travel restrictions).
I have said this before, but the problem with getting good Amtrak service to Vancouver is getting support north of the 49th. Looking at a timetable I have from 2018, it takes 2 hours to travel the 62 miles from Vancouver to Bellingham (an average of 31 mph) and then 1 hour 26 minutes to travel the 95km from Bellingham to Seattle (an average of 66 mph).

I gather part of the problem is that even with preclearance, they still need to stop at the boarder, but the bigger problem is that there is little to no political support in Canada to help upgrade the track to allow it to travel at more than a crawl Canada.

Optimally the track needs to be re-routed away from White Rock beach (the 99 corridor would be a great alternative), but an even greater barrier to more frequent service is the the New Westminster Rail bridge (which is owned by the Government of Canada and also used by CN, CP, SRY, BNSF and VIA). It is in desperate need of replacement, but the government can't seem to come up with the money (Est. cost ~ $110 million, though that may be out of date).
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  #2379  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2021, 7:20 PM
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Chadillaccc Chadillaccc is offline
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Jealous. Calgary's is second behind Nashville in the largest cities without inter-city rail on the continent. Now we'll be the largest at least for now...


It's too bad they're not doing spur lines from Carbondale and Louisville to Nashville. Having direct connection from Atlanta to Chicago would be great. Connecting Pueblo to La Junta would also make sense, just completing a connection through Colorado, as well as St. Louis to Carbondale connecting across Illinois.. both with minimal required trackage relatively.

With that expansion plan, there will now only be one state without any service (SD), while there are currently four (SD, WY, NH, KY)
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Last edited by Chadillaccc; Apr 1, 2021 at 7:32 PM.
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  #2380  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2021, 7:26 PM
milomilo milomilo is offline
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I wouldn't classify the Canadian as intercity rail, it's a museum piece. So anywhere west of Ontario is in the same category as Calgary really. Although if you count the Vancouver - Seattle service then I guess the stat is still correct.
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